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Questions about the rudder

Discussion in 'Catalina 22' started by ScubaGuy2, Jun 3, 2018. Add this thread to a FAQ

  1. ScubaGuy2

    ScubaGuy2

    Joined Mar 23, 2018
    28 posts, 5 likes
    Catalina 22
    12491 US Lake Charlevoix
    I have a few questions about the rudder...

    1. Where do you store it when you are traveling? On our first trip I lugged it inside and layed it on the v-berth. Seems like there has to be a better solution. Leaving it in the cockpit seems the easiest, but it could do some real damage in an emergency braking situation. I don't have enough room in the back of the Explorer because that's where I put the outboard.

    2. How tight should I tighten the tension bolt? Should it be snug, fairly snug, tight, or so tight the rudder won't rotate? Seem like more than tight could damage the rudder. Luckily it loosens and tightens easily.
    20180603_150056.jpg 20180603_150101.jpg 20180603_150114.jpg

    3. I found a small piece of very soft dowel rod in the hole to keep the rudder locked in the down position. Is this normal? Seems like it might be based on Bilbo's post: https://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/raising-the-rudder.131664/#post-831152
    20180603_153821.jpg
    4. What is the procedure for raising the rudder (for shallow water)? Loosening the bolt and pulling the rope, seems precarious. I'm likely to loose the handle. Maybe I should double nut then end of the bolt?

    5. How do I secure the rudder in the up (retracted position)? Do I just use the rope and the jam cleat on top? or do I need to tighten the bolt while raised?

    6. How high should it raise up? It doesn't seem to want to be parallel with the hull.
    20180603_150357.jpg
    7. The rudder has a few war wounds. What could I do to patch it so I can get 2 month of use without doing further damage. Then I can device a more permanent solution over the winter. What would a permanent fix be?
    20180603_150212.jpg
    8. Should I wax it, or polish and wax it?
    20180603_150127.jpg

    20180603_150056.jpg 20180603_150101.jpg 20180603_150114.jpg 20180603_153821.jpg 20180603_150357.jpg 20180603_150212.jpg 20180603_150127.jpg

    Sorry if the answers seem obvious, but they weren't to me.
    Thanks,
    Douglas
     


  2. rpludwig

    rpludwig

    Joined May 23, 2016
    461 posts, 228 likes
    Catalina 22 #12502
    US BSC
    In transit, I keep a couple quilted/moving/shipping blankets on hand, wrap the rudder (and other things), tape, and lay in cockpit.

    War wounds (maybe prop marks), I would think some thickened epoxy for now, eze fix, let it dry out first if it's been wet but get it all sealed up, including the leading/trailing edges.

    When sailing, I keep it snug down (with the lever), with just enough non-snug if sailing in shallow/unknown waters....when beaching, raise with the rope, secure with jam cleat on ours.

    Can't help with the dowel thing, new to me...

    Off season, I treat below waterline on rudder with bottom paint, above that, polish/wax same as topside treatment....my 2 cents...
     


    Last edited: Jun 3, 2018
    ScubaGuy2 likes this.
  3. Gene Neill

    Gene Neill

    Joined Sep 30, 2013
    2,280 posts, 776 likes
    C-22, Albin Vega
    US central Florida
    1. I'd leave the motor on the boat (strapped tight) and throw the rudder in the truck.

    2. The rudder should be tight enough not to rise by itself. Which it sometimes does anyway.

    3. That's a poor man's shear pin. It prevents the blade from trying to rise up when it shouldn't, but snaps off if you hit something.

    4. I never sailed with the rudder up except accidentally for a very short time. The steering gets very heavy very fast. You won't like it. If you're in water that thin, turn around while you still can!

    5. I used the rope and the cleat. Too hard to get sufficient friction.

    6. High enough it doesn't drag the pavement. Where you have it looks good.

    7. Short answer: Smear some thickened epoxy on the wounds. Sand them smooth. Spray or roll some gel coat on the repair.

    8. Sure, if you want to.


    PS: Answer #2 is edited. It's been a while since I had that same rudder, and my memory isn't ... isn't ... what were we talking about again?
     


    Last edited: Jun 3, 2018
    ScubaGuy2 likes this.
  4. Leeward Rail

    Leeward Rail

    Joined Mar 20, 2015
    1,363 posts, 244 likes
    Catalina 22 New Style
    CA SHYC, Lake Winnipeg


  5. ScubaGuy2

    ScubaGuy2

    Joined Mar 23, 2018
    28 posts, 5 likes
    Catalina 22
    12491 US Lake Charlevoix
    Thanks for all the replies.
    That sure makes it sound easy @Gene Neill

    I have never done any sort of fiberglass repair. So last night I decided I would learn about it: I'm more confused now, than before I started reading. This doc: https://www.westsystem.com/wp-content/uploads/User-Manual-2015.pdf was interesting until my eyes glazed over.

    Based on what I was reading, it sounds like G-Flex might be what I should use? Do you agree with that. Or do I need a fairing compound, then some sort of something (technical term) over the top of that? Seems much easier to pick the wrong product than the right product.

    Unfortunately, West Marine is a couple of hours from here, and I would really rather have Amazon drop what I need at my door. But I will make the drive if I have to.

    The good news is the boat has been in indoor storage for almost 2 years. So, the rudder is as dry as it's every going to get.

    Any help is most appreciated.

    @Leeward Rail Lots of things to spent a buck on, if I can fix my current rudder for 1/10 the cost. But I saved the page for the future.
     


  6. Hardhead

    Hardhead

    Joined Apr 11, 2017
    147 posts, 41 likes
    Catalina C22
    US Solomon's Island
    YT has some good videos on this sort of thing. Sometimes it helps to see it done - it's usually a little easier than it sounds on paper. Then again..



    Lotta good music too.
     


    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
    ScubaGuy2 likes this.
  7. pclarksurf

    pclarksurf

    Joined Jul 13, 2015
    453 posts, 186 likes
    Catalina 22 #2552
    US Kennewick, WA
    Lot's of good choices-- but I would not shy away from learning about epoxy application. Rudder would be the perfect piece to start with: worst case scenario you goof a bit here and there and sand it off and try again..... I learned exactly this way on an El Toro of all things.

    I'm a West Fan-- and when working with the components I find the attached very useful to keep my head straight. Once you have tried a few batches you will understand it naively:

    Capture.PNG
     


    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
  8. Leeward Rail

    Leeward Rail

    Joined Mar 20, 2015
    1,363 posts, 244 likes
    Catalina 22 New Style
    CA SHYC, Lake Winnipeg
    Lots of posts on the net, and in this forum, saying that the ruddercraft rudder is the best upgrade people have done. Not saying you should do it now or in the future, just expanding on why I posted the link.
    My rudder was cracked and the core was delaminating. Upgrading was a no-brainer in that case.

    Good luck with the repair.. not a big deal to fix in your case.. :)
     


    ScubaGuy2 likes this.
  9. ScubaGuy2

    ScubaGuy2

    Joined Mar 23, 2018
    28 posts, 5 likes
    Catalina 22
    12491 US Lake Charlevoix
    It's that exact chart where my eyes glazed over and I decide it was time for bed. :banghead:
    To me, that chart implies I need 3 different components mixed together? :yikes: Is that right?

    I would GUESS for the rudder repair I would use:
    105 ---> 206 --> 406
    That seemed like a where I would guess I would need to be on that chart. Am I even close? :what:
     


  10. ScubaGuy2

    ScubaGuy2

    Joined Mar 23, 2018
    28 posts, 5 likes
    Catalina 22
    12491 US Lake Charlevoix
    Thanks, I was reading about fairing compound too. It seems like a good option, but one review I read implied it would not hard enough for something like a rudder? But what do I know.
     


    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
  11. Gene Neill

    Gene Neill

    Joined Sep 30, 2013
    2,280 posts, 776 likes
    C-22, Albin Vega
    US central Florida

    It really is. I'd suggest West 105 epoxy, West 206 slow hardener, and West 406 colloidal silica.

    I don't drink West Systems kool-aid, there are a million other ways to go, but those three ingredients are as good a starter kit as any.

    EDIT: I just read backwards and saw you nailed it already. You, sir, are a GENIUS. :thumbup:
     


  12. Grotto

    Grotto

    Joined Feb 18, 2018
    25 posts, 10 likes
    Catalina 22
    Firefly Us Wilmington nc
    Just dive in. Two part epoxy with pre measured pumps is a no brainer. Next mix colloidal silica till you have peanut butter thickness. Clean the gouges with some sanding, wipe down with acetone (do the sanding cleaning first) spread peanut buttery mixture into gouges nice and full. Grab adult beverage of you choice. (Wait till set) sand down high spots. Ready for paint
     


  13. Leeward Rail

    Leeward Rail

    Joined Mar 20, 2015
    1,363 posts, 244 likes
    Catalina 22 New Style
    CA SHYC, Lake Winnipeg
    One strong suggestion when mixing the colloidal silica in.... use a mask.
    You don't want to breath that stuff in.
     


  14. Hardhead

    Hardhead

    Joined Apr 11, 2017
    147 posts, 41 likes
    Catalina C22
    US Solomon's Island
    Very good point. That stuff really floats around.
     


  15. Gene Neill

    Gene Neill

    Joined Sep 30, 2013
    2,280 posts, 776 likes
    C-22, Albin Vega
    US central Florida
    Hahaha, yeah, the slightest breeze will sure get that stuff airborne! I've never worn a mask with it though; I just try to avoid breathing it as much as possible. From what I hear it's only dangerous if inhaled chronically(?).
     


  16. ScubaGuy2

    ScubaGuy2

    Joined Mar 23, 2018
    28 posts, 5 likes
    Catalina 22
    12491 US Lake Charlevoix
    Clean, wear mask, mix, smear, :beer:, sand. Got it. :)
    Thanks everyone! I'll post pics in a few days.

    So, it's possible I might like to launch the boat before I work on the rudder. Would it be safe to launch the boat without the rudder and use just the motor to move the boat from the ramp to our slip. Probably 1/10th of a mile, in a protected area.
    Totally safe or crazy idea?
     


    Will Gilmore likes this.
  17. LeslieTroyer

    LeslieTroyer

    Joined May 20, 2016
    1,496 posts, 459 likes
    Catalina 36 MK1
    US Everett, WA
    Totally safe. Take it easy turning with the motor is different than using a rudder
     


  18. Grotto

    Grotto

    Joined Feb 18, 2018
    25 posts, 10 likes
    Catalina 22
    Firefly Us Wilmington nc
    Motor only turns with power. So don't try to ghost it in at idle.
     


  19. ScubaGuy2

    ScubaGuy2

    Joined Mar 23, 2018
    28 posts, 5 likes
    Catalina 22
    12491 US Lake Charlevoix
    Things are moving along with my rudder rehab. I finally got the guts up to mix up the epoxy, and patch the damage. I'm not sure I can say it went well, but it got done. I learned a lot and it got done.

    So, today, I mixed up gel coat and put three coats on one side of the rudder. I think it looks pretty good. Well at least it looks much better than it did. My problem is I now know what people mean when they say "orange peel". I have A LOT of orange peel. Do I need to sand it down until it is smooth? If so, what grits should I work through, and wet or dry sand?

    Thanks!!!
     


    Grotto likes this.
  20. Gene Neill

    Gene Neill

    Joined Sep 30, 2013
    2,280 posts, 776 likes
    C-22, Albin Vega
    US central Florida
    Yup, just sand it - if you want to, that is. It's not a "need". You can probably start at 400 or 600, and take it as high as you feel like going. I've gone up to 2500 (wet of course) and it leaves the new gelcoat shining like a mirror.

    Just be careful with that first, lowest grit. If in doubt, start higher.
     



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