Purchasing advice

Will Gilmore · Mar 10, 2018

Welcome to the best sailboat forum on the web. You have started on the right foot with joining us. You will get lots of good advice from smart and experienced people. All of them are willing to share.

I don't know the C22. So I will limit my advice to general concepts. You said you are an experienced boat owner, just not sailboats. Do and look for the same things you would when buying a powerboat. Take her for a test sail, if you can. Carefully look over the power plant, fiberglass is fiberglass whether on a powerboat or a sailboat. Soft spots are not always a reason for alarm, but they are a weakness and may indicate problems that need attention. If you do that kind of work yourself, no problem, you already know how to fix it.
Sailboats require some extra thinking with regards to structure. The rigging puts stress on the hull that powerboat don't experience. The chain plates, where the stays support the mast, need to be solid and firmly attached with good, rust free fasteners and backing plates. The same is true for blocks, cleats and cams that sheets and halyard and lines that take a load run through.
The mast puts enormous pressure on the deck so make sure it isn't sinking. Below, there will be either a supporting arch directly under the mast step or a compression post that stands on the keel line of the hull. Make sure this is solid, not sinking, rot free and straight.
The centerboard is another common area of concern, if there is one. If she has a fixed keel, less concern. Make sure the centerboard drops easily and folds back up. The pivot pin should be in good shape and so should the cables and winch that hoists the cb (centerboard).
Check the connection for the rudder to the hull. A lot of force can be put on the rudder. It is worth climbing back under the cockpit to look at the backside, where it comes thru the hull.
If you are use to doing your own work on projects, there are no problems that can't be fixed. You will have to decide if it's worth it and how big of a headache it will be. Most used boasts will need some work. Often the previous owner (PO) won't even know, so, they may say it's in pristine condition when it isn't.
Most SBO members are going to suggest you have a surveyor look at the boat, or all least a knowledgable sailor.
If you are new to sailing, there is a whole bunch of nomenclature to learn. At least half of learning any new discipline is the nomenclature so it's important.
My best advice is to take pictures and post them for us to enjoy and critique. Let us know how much the asking price is and, if there is one, post the link to the ad.
You have put yourself in good hands.

- Will (Dragonfly)

rpludwig · Mar 10, 2018

Will gives good general advice. Suggest you scroll thru a couple dozen pages of threads here for starters, read thru the posts and you'll get a great education on C22's quickly and you'll see plenty of pics with which to compare to as you search for one.

There's plenty of C22's out there, over 16,000 were built, so don't jump at the first one you see. I think you'd regret buying one without a trailer as you're going to want to haul it out periodically for bottom work, keel maintenance, etc. It's not uncommon to find a good one, with motor and trailer for 3k or less. Plan on spending another 2-3k on maintenance/upgrades to get it in shape, unless the PO was diligent. Be aware of the differences between the pre and post 1986 models. Several significant improvements post 86.

Not to be harsh, but in my opinion, to buy one in the water, in Canada this time of the year, without a trailer, without inspecting the bottom and especially the keel would be somewhat foolhardy. I'd advise to inspect it as it sits, and keep looking, don't jump the gun...as Will sez, post pics of those you look at here, you'll get plenty of good advice and help along the way. Good luck in your search! ....oh, remember its very much a buyers market when it comes to used sailboats!

Ted · Mar 10, 2018

I wouldn't buy a boat without looking at the bottom. There are potential problems that may make an otherwise good looking boat worthless. Blisters, damage from an accidental grounding or a boat that was improperly supported in the past, may require repairs that are difficult to do and may not be worth the time, money or effort.

shemandr · Mar 10, 2018

Can't the OP have the seller arrange a short haul to look at the bottom? In a sling he could test the centerboard operation, rudder mounting and inspect the bottom at eye level. So I would say look at the boat in the water, if it is up to your standards and the price is correct, ask for the haul. Pay for it if you have to. If you have it surveyed haul it then.

JimInPB · Mar 10, 2018

I would start by reading the buyer's guide that can be found here - https://www.catalina22.org/index.php/download-files?folder=C22_Buyers_Guide

seadaddler · Mar 10, 2018

Can you find some one is into sailing that can help and is there anyone here is is in the area can
help with advice and maybe help look over the boat and just asking.
Nick

DayDreamer41 · Mar 10, 2018

I am in the camp of, you need to see the bottom before you can determine whether its worth purchasing.

jon hansen · Mar 10, 2018

axiom #1, for sailors " do not ever buy a boat without a complete out of the water survey" ever ever ever

Will Gilmore · Mar 10, 2018

I'm in the camp that it's a cal 22 and it depends on the asking price, the overall presentation and the buyer's comfort level with boat repair. Look at the bottom of you can.

- Will (Dragonfly)

EditorC22NSA · Mar 10, 2018

The Catalina 22 Buyer's Guide is posted at https://catalina22.org/index.php/download-files?folder=C22_Buyers_Guide. C22NSA members can log-in and access reviews of each Catalina 22 model - Original, New Design, MK-II and Sport. There is also a Catalina 22 Estimated Value Calculator available to C22NSA members to provide a general idea of what a used Catalina 22 may be valued at.

Siamese · Mar 10, 2018

It's impossible to know what you need to know about the centerboard with the boat in the water. I would not buy that boat.

Do some internet searching to see what it takes to refurbish the centerboard and it's systems on a Catalina 22. What do those things weigh....some 700 pounds or so? You're not going to just throw that thing in the backseat of the Subaru and take it home to the work bench. Don't drop it on your foot! That big piece of iron can get very nasty looking. Is that a project you want to tackle?

If I was to buy an older C22, I think I'd hold off on sailing her until I had seen the pin that holds the centerboard to the boat. Or replaced it.

Are you planning on keeping the boat in a slip and having the marina haul it out for the winter? Or annually? Even if that's the case, it seems like a good trailer will be sorely missed.

rpludwig · Mar 10, 2018

+1 to all the above....further, regarding the swing keel, do a search here for refurbing/refinishing the keel, most of us have done it in one form or another and yes it's cast iron, (rusty cast iron) that will need to be ground down some, sandblasted, and faired with epoxy to do it right (unless the PO has done it). A new one will run you $2500 if you were to go that route, likely as much as the boat is worth!

That and soft decks, chain plates, condition of sails, condition of standing & running rigging would be my #1 concerns and where you'll spend the most $$$'s to repair/replace. The buyer's guide link will be helpful for sure....

jon hansen · Mar 10, 2018

wrong, owning a boat is a liability too. once it's yours, if it's junk, it is very expensive to discard. unless your willing to scam the next clueless dreamer

jwing · Mar 10, 2018

I agree with everything that has been written here so far, but I will offer a different thought: I bought my boat without having seen the bottom. But:

I did sail her with the seller. Everything worked well enough to sail without having to do any boat repairs;
The price was excellent;
A trailer was included in the deal;
An almost new motor was included in the deal.

Yes, there are lots of C22s and similar sailboats for sale, and you should choose wisely. But if you come across a good boat with a below-the-market price tag, don't dicker on the price; close the deal quickly. I closed the deal on my boat while we were still out sailing. When we got back to the dock, the seller excused himself to cancel the four other appointments he had to show the boat.

Hardhead · Mar 10, 2018

One thing to specifically look for - is whether the boat has water damage to the bottom of the plywood bulkeads, inside the cabin, that the chainplates (wire mast shrouds) are bolted to. If so, the plywood is easily replaced with basic skills, but takes some dedicated work.

I agree with those that say don't jump on the first pretty C22 you come across. Check all the listings, and scan the details of the photos carefully. Certain boats can look good, but hold about a summer's worth of weekends of replacement and repair work before you're really ready to sail comfortably. I bought a C22 last April, and wound up spending all summer replacing and modifying, to get it where I wanted it. It was fun, and I'm very happy with it, but I wasn't getting any sailing done.

That being said, if you see a boat that looks good, jump on it before someone else does. Truly good boat deals don't linger this time of year.

Roland5048 · Mar 10, 2018

jon hansen said:
wrong, owning a boat is a liability to. once it's yours, if it's junk, it is very expensive to discard. unless your willing to scam the next clueless dreamer

Jon is absolutely correct. Look around any marina. You will find boats that have some really nice equipment but the boat itself has been neglected. Case in point: two slips from me is a h30, same make, same model, just one year newer. Deck is so green, I believe moss will start growing as soon as it warms up. Bottom has not been touched in years. I'm sure there is some delamination going on. Hatches have rotted plywood for lenses letting rain in and who knows what else. I don't believe the engine runs. Gear on deck has been upgraded and is probably the most expensive items on her. However, take the expensive gear off, sell it and what do you have? Still a worthless hull to dispose of.
Remember the initial cost is just your price of admission. The ongoing costs is just to stay in the game. 2K plus another 2K to bring her up to snuff is still 4K and lost sailing time. 4K initially for a turn key vessel that you can sail immediately would seem a lot cheaper in the long run. Keep looking. Good luck.

Hardhead · Mar 10, 2018

I'd bet many of the experienced members here would be happy to give a critical buyer's eye to any internet boat listings you find. You might try sending private messages to anyone who volunteers, and that way you would not be advertising potential current good deals to the whole world by re-posting them openly.

I think the experiences you can have with the simple C22 really open up a lot of enjoyment, at a very reasonable cost. Being able to trailer and easily change your cruising grounds is great, and not being tied to marina expense is even better, IMO. I believe almost everyone here could afford a much larger boat it they wanted to, but the C22 is really a sweet spot, in my calculations at least.

Gene Neill · Mar 10, 2018

Hardhead said:
I'd bet many of the experienced members here would be happy to give a critical buyer's eye to any internet boat listings you find. You might try sending private messages to anyone who volunteers, and that way you would not be advertising potential current good deals to the whole world by re-posting them openly.

I'd be happy to do that.

Based on where you live, I'm guessing the boat is slipped in salt water? Odds are, you'll want to run from that one. Swing keels do not appreciate long term immersion in salt. I wouldn't commit to taking such a boat for FREE without pulling it for an inspection of the keel and all its components. It is the heart and soul of the vessel.