Pros and Cons of "New Design"

Jun 27, 2019
14
NoneYet NoneYet NoneYet
I am looking to purchase my first boat and have decided I really want a C22. I understand the differences on paper between an early model and the new model 1986 forward.

Besides the price, what is your real world experience? Is there a real advantage in going after a newer model, or would an older model in good shape be just as good? Is there any real game changer in the 86+ model or are there any drawbacks in going with the newer model like parts availability?

Just trying to narrow down what I am going after. I am patient and have plenty of time so I want to make a smart decision. Thanks all!
 
Mar 20, 2015
3,094
C&C 30 Mk1 Winnipeg
Mostly same parts and multiple benefits to the new design. Bigger cabin, anchor locker, dedicated fuel locker, better spreaders, reinforced bow eye, better traveller, better power panel location, better cockpit drains etc.
The later new design even has a transparent forward hatch.

About the only drawback is the loss of the little shelf at the sides of the cabin, and the increased weight if you are into racing.

Unless you are a racer,...Hands down the new design is better.
 
Last edited:
May 23, 2016
1,024
Catalina 22 #12502 BSC
+1 to all LR sez, plus better backstay options, better dead lites (windows), wider quarter berth, better galley, and get a fixed wing keel, rather than swing...only drawback is they're much harder to find!
Suggest you spend some time here reading posts, you'll see what the issues and fixes are, (most are common to both models) and expect to budget a few k over time regardless...good luck on your search and welcome!
(note: inspite of all this, there's plenty of <86 swing keel folks here enjoying the heck outta their boats, myself included!)

https://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/selling-my-catalina-22-mkii-precautions.197289/
 
Last edited:
Sep 30, 2013
3,538
1988 Catalina 22 North Florida
+1 to all the above. A few more random thoughts:

Parts are available for all.

A lot of the new design improvements (anchor locker, sink, stove, garbage can) were aimed at using the boat for cruising. So if you only day sail/race, these things may not mean as much to you. If you plan on cruising, they will mean the world to you.

One thing not mentioned yet is the new design's built-in cooler/step. Love it, love it, love it.

I always appreciated the additional width of the "side decks" (not sure if that's the correct term) on the new design. With the lifeline stanchion posts being mounted further outboard, and angled outboard as well, it makes scampering forward a lot safer and easier.

The loss of cabin shelving is a real thing on new design boats, especially if you cruise. But, eliminating those shelves resulted in wider berths, and new shelves can always be added.

Pre-86 boats had wider cockpit coamings, with the jib sheet cleats mounted inboard of the winches, rather than aft of them. A much better arrangement. Tacking and trimming are easier.

The new design's bow eye cannot be accessed from inside the boat. So if it ever needs to be worked on, get ready for some major surgery. Similar situation with the bow cleats and the bow pulpit legs: you have to install inspection ports in the anchor locker to access the nuts underneath.

If you happen to look at a Mk II boat like the one linked above, that's a whole nuther species. I myself am not a fan. But they're rare enough you may not even find one for sale.
 
Last edited:
Sep 30, 2013
3,538
1988 Catalina 22 North Florida
This was posted quite some time ago by @watercolors II:

By "Watercolors"
The "New Design" (1986-1995) may be ideal for you if your primary goal is cruising rather than racing, especially if you plan to spend multiple days and nights aboard.
Starting from bow to stern, the new design has an anchor locker built into the bow, plenty of room for two anchors, chain and over 200 feet of rode with a drain out the bow for wet gear.
The stem fitting now features a tang, which extends down through the deck and is through-bolted to the prow. This eliminates a weakness in the original design which could lead to the stem fitting pulling loose from the deck.
The forward end of the cabin has been extended and given more slope, creating more space in the V berth/porta potty area. The forward hatch is now located on this slope, where it gives better ventilation than the old placement on the foredeck. On post-1987 models, the forward hatch is made of smoked Lexan, providing more light inside, as well a more sleek, modern look.
The cabin windows are now frameless and made of smoked Plexiglas, which adds to the modernized look, while eliminating the common leakage problem of the old style aluminum-framed glass windows.
The lifeline stanchions are now mounted further outboard, in cut-outs along the toe rail. This provides more room along each side of the boat to walk fore and aft, with less chance of tripping or stubbing a toe on the stanchion post.
The sliding galley of the old style has changed to a permanent setup just aft of the v-berth in which there is a permanent sink on the port side with a counter top area and a built in garbage can under the counter. A five gallon water container sits in a special cut out under the v-berth with a hand pump at the sink. On the starboard side is a place for a two burner stove and a very deep drawer under this stove.
The table settee is on the portside and looks shorter than the old style but, the back cushion for the back bench seat has a strong wooden backing and a special support and slot to slide this back cushion under the port side cockpit bench to give you over 6 feet of sleeping accommodations. The floor under the table is level on the new style where the old had a step-over keel trunk you have to deal with. The starboard quarter berth now has a lift lid under the cushion with a large storage area underneath.
The two small shelves on each side of the cabin are now gone in the new styling.
The main step down into the cabin from the cockpit is now a built-in 48 quart cooler, possibly the biggest improvement in livability.
The starboard area has a cushion that extends 75 percent of the way back to the stern for sleeping children (or very tall adults) with storage underneath this cushion, and the port lazarette opens inside the cabin, with a divider back 24 inches from the cabin settee seat to keep small storage stuff more organized.
At the stern, the new style has a fuel tank storage area on the port side, which is now sealed from the inside of the cabin, and will accommodate up to a six gallon fuel tank. On the starboard side at the stern is a deep storage area under the bench seat where one group 24 battery is located, with room for mooring lines, fenders, cleaning equipment, etc. This compartment is larger than it appears, since it extends well underneath the cockpit floor.
The new style mast features internal halyards, typically leading back to the cockpit.
Inside the cabin, there is now access to the bilge under two decorative covers. There is room for a slender bilge pump if one is desired.
The new design's cockpit floor now slopes toward the stern, rather than foreward, and the drains are now much larger and exit through the transom above the waterline with no grates to become plugged, thereby filling the cockpit with water.


DISADVANTAGES:
As mentioned above, the long narrow shelves down each side of the cabin are gone. Shelf space becomes precious, and New Design owners must typically find ways to add some.
Narrower cockpit coamings result in jib sheets needing to be pulled aftward, rather than inboard, which is awkward and difficult. Self tailing winches become a wonderful (if expensive!) addition.
In some of the earlier new design boats, the anchor locker has a drain which exits through a small hole in the leading edge of the bow. This drain is prone to leaking into the cabin. Later models have a through-hull drain on one side of the boat, which eliminates the issue. This can be retrofitted with relative ease.
The wooden reinforcement block behind the bow eye is completely inacessible. Should it ever need replacement, the anchor locker will have to be cut wide open. Similarly, in order to re-bed the bow pulpit and/or bow cleats, inspection ports must be installed in each side of the anchor locker. If the anchor locker does not have three access ports, your cleats have never been re-bedded.
Most of the cabin lockers have no way for water to drain out of them. Drilling a small hole in the lowest corner of each locker allows any water to drain to the bilge rather than remain trapped. This is particularly important in the large locker under the port settee, where any trapped water will quickly rot the lower edge of the long teak panel.
 
Oct 10, 2013
127
Catalina 22 Minneapolis
I have a 1974 and although I love it love it love it, if I were to start over I'd spend a little more and get a newer model.
 
  • Like
Likes: Gene Neill

greg_m

.
May 23, 2017
692
Catalina Jaguar 22 Simons Town
You can clearly see who owns the newer versions compared to those who own the older versions... :dancing:

All very good points made above! I have an older version that was made under licence as well as renamed to - Jaguar 22. It is to all intents a Cataina 22 of pre-'74 vintage. Yet to sail on it as its like half rebuilt :meh: but for me it was what was available at the time I wanted it.

Patience was mentioned by PO = very good starting point. Don't rush it. I did :( Would I do it again... no ways!
Pro's and cons were mentioned in other posts = some biased (owners will always say their boats are the better choice ;))

At the end of the day it's what will work for you, at the price you can afford and what your plans are.

Everything is renewable so all the things talked about on the newer version can be upgraded on the older version... with allowance for your own touch! Except of course the actual structure unless you plan to go like Mads of Sail life who now is remodeling his boat! That said, what is not mentioned is = how quickly and how effortlessly do you want to get onto the water?

What ever you do... take your time but don't take all your time... because you don't have plenty of time in this world!
 
  • Like
Likes: Grotto

Grotto

.
Feb 18, 2018
273
Catalina 22 Wilmington
Rather than worry about the make year, worry about the condition. A well maintained older boat with good sails will beat a much newer one that has been neglected, and may even be have cool upgrades. As said before pick your budget and be patient. The right boat will appear.
 
Jun 27, 2019
14
NoneYet NoneYet NoneYet
Rather than worry about the make year, worry about the condition. A well maintained older boat with good sails will beat a much newer one that has been neglected, and may even be have cool upgrades. As said before pick your budget and be patient. The right boat will appear.
Good advice! Thanks so much
 
Jun 27, 2019
14
NoneYet NoneYet NoneYet
Had a great day today. Found a guy that had 4 C22s for sale. Crazy how much there is to look at.

#1 - 1987 new style. Was ok, but missing all but the V cushions. Rigging was marginal. What I didn't like was he had added quite a few things but done it poorly. For instance, he added winches to the top of the cabin and the bolts would hit you in the head if you were sitting at the table. Fixable, but overall not the well cared for. Had a junker old 2 stroke Johnson that would have to be replaced.

#2 - 1983. Again was ok, but this guy had really chopped it up adding 2 big speakers in the cabin and 2 in the cockpit, but there were just holes there now. He also added 120v plugs all around, but pretty badly. Rotten wood all around the companionway and wench. All fixable, but a lot of work. Had a nice almost new Mercury 4 stroke 6hp.

#3 unknown, no trailer, no forward hatch, would need a lot of work. didnt even look inside. Pass.

Those first three were on consignment, then he says "I got another that I own I want to show you".

#4 - 1981. This girl was nice! It was basically has had nothing added since it was new except a Bimini top (which I want). No holes, patches, wire nests, etc except for some lock latches added on the cockpit compartments. All cushions, sails and rigging are usable. Has an almost new mercury 5hp 4 stroke. It is ready to go in the water today. And he wanted at least $600 less than anything listed above since he owned it and he will throw some replacement tires on the trailer since they are showing rot.

As much as I like the thought of the new style, this 1981 really has me interested. It is far and above better than everything I have seen so far. I am going to ponder on it for a bit, but giving it serious consideration.
 
Apr 11, 2017
571
Catalina C22 Solomon's Island, MD
One thing to keep in mind - to anyone searching for a C22 - is to be clearly aware of the common used boat repair issues. Before buying - I would have been much better prepared by spending an hour or 2 searching the C22 forum under the search terms "chainplate bulkhead deck rot." The photos of plywood bulkeads with water damage, etc. really give a new buyer an eye as to what to watch out for. It can all be repaired, but better to know in advance.
 
Mar 20, 2015
3,094
C&C 30 Mk1 Winnipeg
he added winches to the top of the cabin and the bolts would hit you in the head if you were sitting at the table.
The new design has winches on the cabin top from factory. The bolts, and those for the poptop latches, can be a head mashing hazard.
The factory apparently put covers on each bolt or rounded nuts. That minimizes the head pain. I have seen boats with excessive length bolts used when they were replaced.
 
Jun 27, 2019
14
NoneYet NoneYet NoneYet
1FC21FCA-B406-4FEB-B9C2-3957969E8293.jpeg
I didn’t get a picture of the other side, but the bolts were much longer and right at your head. Ouch!
 
Mar 20, 2015
3,094
C&C 30 Mk1 Winnipeg
That is the correct location. Not sure why they put a metal backing plate. The loads don't require it. Obviously wrong bolts too. They usually "just" stick out enough for washers and round headed cap nuts. Just like the bolts holding the cleat, behind the winch bolts, in the photo.
Mashing your head kinda goes with territory on trailerable keel boats of this size.
 
Sep 30, 2013
3,538
1988 Catalina 22 North Florida
If the bolts are only as long as they need to be (the ones above are pretty close), you will almost certainly never hit your head on them.
 
Last edited:

T_Cat

.
Aug 8, 2014
333
Catalina 22 1987 New Design. 14133 "LadyHawke" Modesto CA
What did you end up doing?