Propeller shaft problem

Oct 29, 2013
24
Catalina 309 Port Moresby
Stave (Cutlass) bearing problem 309

Lost a bearing around propeller shaft - need help and advice.

Just sailed my new (second-hand, 2006) Catalina 309 from Australia to Papua New Guinea. In brief had a problem with the headsail furler and lost a line overboard at night which (of course) got jammed around the propeller. Cut it free the next day and sailed the remainder of the passage.

Now the shaft is very loose and knocks against the skeg end exit of the hull. it seems to have caused a crack in the hull at this spot.
I think this is the cutlass bearing but am not sure where to find out any information from Catalina about replacement.

I would really appreciate some help with this problem.
 
Nov 18, 2010
2,441
Catalina 310 Hingham, MA
Doesn't sound good.

Here is a good link to Maine Sail's site that has how to replace the cutlass bearing. http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/replacing_a_cutlass

Here is what Catalina Direct says you need for a new bearing. http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm/product/1884/cutlass-bearingbrc-309-c-350.cfm A local shop should be able to get one for you without having to get it from Catalina Direct.

I would say it might be worth checking the engine to shaft coupling alignment and possibly checking the shaft for being true. Is the boat out of the water? Any photos?

What was the problem with the headsail?
 
Mar 20, 2007
500
Catalina 355 Kilmarnock, VA
I suspect that the composite shaft log either fractured at the cutless bearing, or possibly delaminated from the skeg. Though possible, a bent shaft isn't likely since the shaft is pretty short. I would recommend having the boat hauled (SOON) and a thorough inspection performed, preferably by a knowledgable marine surveyor (don't know what's available where you're currently located). You should check the aft bilge around the PSS shaft seal and the shaft log for any water intrusion/seepage, which would indicate the above conditions. Be aware that you will need to either drop the rudder, or unbolt the engine from its mounts and move it forward into the cabin (probably easier) in order to remove the shaft. Also, carefully check the engine mounts and engine alignment if the shaft/log/skeg appear intact, as there is very little clearance between the shaft and the shaft log. It doesn't take much misalignment to cause the shaft to bang against the inside of the log when the engine vibrates normally.
 
Oct 29, 2013
24
Catalina 309 Port Moresby
Doesn't sound good.

Here is a good link to Maine Sail's site that has how to replace the cutlass bearing. http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/replacing_a_cutlass

Here is what Catalina Direct says you need for a new bearing. http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm/product/1884/cutlass-bearingbrc-309-c-350.cfm A local shop should be able to get one for you without having to get it from Catalina Direct.

I would say it might be worth checking the engine to shaft coupling alignment and possibly checking the shaft for being true. Is the boat out of the water? Any photos?

What was the problem with the headsail?
Thanks for your help. Much appreciated.

Unfortunately there are no marine shops in Port Moresby. We get most of our parts from Cairns in Australia. So I will get the correct bearing from Catalina Direct. It may take a while but it should be the right thing.

Also getting the boat out of the water is not so simple either as there is no small boat lift. I will try to get someone form the large shipping companies to assist me.


The headsail problem was not that bad - just poorly set up in the first place.
The leader block to the furler was set too far back and the furling line came out of the furler and wound up around the sail. We only needed to drop the headsail and untangle, but at 3:00 am and with big wind and seas we lost the line over ... how a simple thing can lead to so much more complicated things. I have since moved the lead block to the first strutt on the pulpit and lower and it seems to work fine.

I went under and took some images of the damage. Still a bit of rope adhered but you can see the gap where the cutlass bearing once was. You can put your finger in the space - so I wonder if more might be missing.

You can also see the crack in the skeg. Bummer...
 

Attachments

Oct 29, 2013
24
Catalina 309 Port Moresby
Thank you for your help. Yes I had not considered that in order to remove the shaft I will have to remove the rudder.
I am asking about to see if there are any marine surveyors in Port Moresby. I suspect if there are they would only know about the large ships that operate here. But there are a few people knowledgable about small boats who can assist.
The difficult part is getting her out of the water since there is no small boat lift in town. I posted a couple of images taken underwater illustrating the damage.
Once again thanks for your ideas and assistance.
 
Mar 20, 2007
500
Catalina 355 Kilmarnock, VA
Wow - that's a lot worse than I anticipated. Is any water leaking into the boat? Looks like the composite shaft log got torqued to the point that it actually twisted off the lower skeg, until the Cutless bearing finally broke loose and released it. Be sure to check the prop and shaft for trueness while they're out, and I'd replace the tranny coupling and the PSS as well (if the boat's an '06 and has the original PSS, it needs to have at least the bellows replaced anyway). Hard to say how extensive the damage is until it's apart, but will likely need a new shaft log aligned and glassed in when the skeg is repaired. Might be a good idea to contact Warren Pandy or even Gerry Douglas at Catalina Yachts for some guidance. Phone # (in Florida) is 727-544-6681.
 
Jul 25, 2007
320
-Irwin -Citation 40 Wilmington, NC
Thats not a crack it is a rope burn. The fiberglass is fine. If you have dive gear or know a diver in the area you may be able to do it in the water. pull the prop and you should be able to remove the cutlass with the shaft in. I cannot really see because of the marine growth at the end. If you could clean up the end and get some new photos it would help. The bearing sleeve is likely still in place but the rope likely cause the rubber to roll out. You will have to remove the old sleeve. Measure the shaft dia and the od of the sleeve for the replacement
 
Mar 20, 2007
500
Catalina 355 Kilmarnock, VA
Ya know - I think Sailvayu is right. If the skeg were torqued enough to crack, it would probably be higher up (that's probably solid layup at the bottom of the skeg). Still will need to remove the shaft to get the sleeve out and be sure the shaft is true.
 
Jul 25, 2007
320
-Irwin -Citation 40 Wilmington, NC
I agree hauling would be best but given the OPs situation I think the repair can be done in the water at least good enough to get him to a better location for repairs. Sometimes you got to just get it done as best you can to get your ass moving again
 
Oct 29, 2013
24
Catalina 309 Port Moresby
I agree hauling would be best but given the OPs situation I think the repair can be done in the water at least good enough to get him to a better location for repairs. Sometimes you got to just get it done as best you can to get your ass moving again
Thank you both for your thoughts. Warren Pandy has been in touch and has been incredibly helpful. I will be following up with him Monday.
In the mean-time I am trying to find out if I can get the boat out of the water. It seems there may be an option of getting in a small crane for a lift. The problem (besides the expense) is that you get a building site crane operator and building site lifting slings. Care needs to be taken that we don't cause more damage than i am trying to fix. But on the other hand I am going to be living here for a few years so the option of getting her going and doing it properly somewhere better is not really on. However, I am chasing down a contact at a big shipping company for some advice on lifting and dry docking.

I thought i'd share with you an image of my brother cutting the rope clear. This was about 200 nMile from PNG and Aust in the middle of the coral sea. The water was clear and a remarkable blue.
The other image is coming into Port Moresby. Hard to see in the image but the houses in the background are built on stilts out over the water. Its an amazing place - except for boat repairs!
 

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Nov 18, 2010
2,441
Catalina 310 Hingham, MA
I don't think the damage looks too bad. I would agree with others that the mark is probably just from the rope.

What does the setup look like on the inside? My 310 might be different. We have a different strut set up.

I know people will call me crazy for suggesting this but what about careening? I helped a buddy careen his Freedom 30 so he could change out to a Dripless. He was trying to do it on the cheap but I think he also wanted to prove people wrong who said he couldn't.
 
Oct 29, 2013
24
Catalina 309 Port Moresby
I don't think the damage looks too bad. I would agree with others that the mark is probably just from the rope.

What does the setup look like on the inside? My 310 might be different. We have a different strut set up.

I know people will call me crazy for suggesting this but what about careening? I helped a buddy careen his Freedom 30 so he could change out to a Dripless. He was trying to do it on the cheap but I think he also wanted to prove people wrong who said he couldn't.
Yes careening poles are at the yacht club and get used frequently I helped a mate anti-foul his yacht at them. They would be OK to use if I don't have to take the shaft out. That is, if I can replace the cutlass bearing by removing the propeller and then slide the new one into place - as suggested above. However, with the careening poles you get a very limited chance to work - particularly since I have a 1.3 m draft. Also if I need to get professional help they will only come during 'working hours', which may not match the tides ...
I am not sure what you meant about the setup inside and struts - inside the shaft to the motor or inside the cabin as a general question.

By the way - could either of you point me towards a post connected with fitting a small winch for furling the jib? Does the 310 come with a winch for furling the headsail?
 
Nov 18, 2010
2,441
Catalina 310 Hingham, MA
Yes careening poles are at the yacht club and get used frequently I helped a mate anti-foul his yacht at them. They would be OK to use if I don't have to take the shaft out. That is, if I can replace the cutlass bearing by removing the propeller and then slide the new one into place - as suggested above. However, with the careening poles you get a very limited chance to work - particularly since I have a 1.3 m draft. Also if I need to get professional help they will only come during 'working hours', which may not match the tides ... I am not sure what you meant about the setup inside and struts - inside the shaft to the motor or inside the cabin as a general question. By the way - could either of you point me towards a post connected with fitting a small winch for furling the jib? Does the 310 come with a winch for furling the headsail?
On the winch, you never use a winch on the furling line. It puts too much torque on the head stay. If you have to pull that hard on the furling line, something is wrong. On the roller furlers they put on our Catalinas the problem is either poor maintenance of the furler (there should be a flushing hole to flush the salt water out of the furler. I do it about once a month) or the halyard is wrapping around at the top typically either due to improper angle or poor maintenance on the top swivel (there are bearing in there that should turn freely. I wash mine good each year before layup and lube with McLube before I bend on the sails after relaunch).

On the cutlass bearing, what part do you want a professional for?
 
Oct 29, 2013
24
Catalina 309 Port Moresby
On the winch, you never use a winch on the furling line. It puts too much torque on the head stay. If you have to pull that hard on the furling line, something is wrong. On the roller furlers they put on our Catalinas the problem is either poor maintenance of the furler (there should be a flushing hole to flush the salt water out of the furler. I do it about once a month) or the halyard is wrapping around at the top typically either due to improper angle or poor maintenance on the top swivel (there are bearing in there that should turn freely. I wash mine good each year before layup and lube with McLube before I bend on the sails after relaunch).

On the cutlass bearing, what part do you want a professional for?
Thanks for the advice on furlers. i think i need to do some lubrication and maintenance of mine. It is pretty stiff and I find the little cleat provided pretty useless to hold it when pulling in the headsail. The 'professional' inference was in relation to if the hull skeg had damage. This now seems less likely and I am hopeful that when I get her up in the careening poles the marks will prove to be 'rope burn'. It appears cracked when viewed underwater but I am hopeful this is just on the anti-foul paint. But it is a bit immaterial in that there is not much professional services for small boats here in PNG anyway. I will be doing the cutlass myself (with a friend) when the part arrives from the States - it will probably take another week and a half to get here. Meantime there is a tropical cyclone warning and high winds, so I can continue research ...
 
Apr 3, 2012
95
Catalina 309 Sydney
Hi
Can't help you with repair, but we fitted a clutch for furling line and sometimes use primary winch to help reef in



ForumRunner_20140201_105225.jpg
 
Oct 29, 2013
24
Catalina 309 Port Moresby
Hi
Can't help you with repair, but we fitted a clutch for furling line and sometimes use primary winch to help reef in



View attachment 71853
Yes, looks very neat and useful. The clutch looks far more practical than the cleat. Did you just remove the cleat and place the clutch in the same screw holes?
 
Oct 29, 2013
24
Catalina 309 Port Moresby
I saw on your bio page that you are based around Sydney but had cruised the Pacific. Did you do that cruising on your Catalina?
 

Tom J

.
Sep 30, 2008
2,301
Catalina 310 Quincy, MA
Thank you for your help. Yes I had not considered that in order to remove the shaft I will have to remove the rudder.
I am asking about to see if there are any marine surveyors in Port Moresby. I suspect if there are they would only know about the large ships that operate here. But there are a few people knowledgable about small boats who can assist.
The difficult part is getting her out of the water since there is no small boat lift in town. I posted a couple of images taken underwater illustrating the damage.
Once again thanks for your ideas and assistance.
Any chance there is a marine railway in your area? Lots of fishing/commercial towns use them to haul the big boats. A good operator can use an adjustable cradle to haul your sailboat.
 
Oct 29, 2013
24
Catalina 309 Port Moresby
Any chance there is a marine railway in your area? Lots of fishing/commercial towns use them to haul the big boats. A good operator can use an adjustable cradle to haul your sailboat.
Funny you should mention that Tom, I actually just found a small boat marine railway dry dock - it used to be run by Steamships Co. in Port moresby. Unfortunately I also found out they sold it - but the deal has not gone through smoothly and at the moment there is no operator. This may take a few months here! So it looks like a quick job on the careening stand at the yacht club.
 
Apr 3, 2012
95
Catalina 309 Sydney
]Left the cleat on ,couple of turns helps hold it better in strong wind.
Bolted clutch from inside locker

Ps.
Sent you a private message with a question