I'm replacing my old Groco prefilter in the cockpit locker with a Racor fuel filter 200 series. Does anyone know the diesel fuel flow and the micron of the filter that I should use? (2, 10 or 30)
Chuck
Chuck
Prefilter in a O'Day 272LE
- Thread starter Chuck Powell
- Start date
You want the pre-filter to be a larger micron rating than your engine filter, itself. Do you know what the engine filter is rated at? 30 or 10 would be my guess.
As for the fuel flow, your engine won't be passing more than 2 gallons/hour. However, your fuel pump will probably want to draw more. I'd pick the size that has filters readily available and stick with that. The R2 (which is rated at 16 gallons/hour should be plenty enough. The only caveat is that IF someone but a very aggressive electric fuel pump on the system, you might need the larger one -- but that would an "un-natural act".
https://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/Multi-Stage-Fuel-Filtration
As for the fuel flow, your engine won't be passing more than 2 gallons/hour. However, your fuel pump will probably want to draw more. I'd pick the size that has filters readily available and stick with that. The R2 (which is rated at 16 gallons/hour should be plenty enough. The only caveat is that IF someone but a very aggressive electric fuel pump on the system, you might need the larger one -- but that would an "un-natural act".
https://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/Multi-Stage-Fuel-Filtration
Chuck:
I use a 10 micron racor filter between the tank and the electric pump filter on my 272 with a Universal M12 diesel. Stu gave me a tutorial and it works great.
I use a 10 micron racor filter between the tank and the electric pump filter on my 272 with a Universal M12 diesel. Stu gave me a tutorial and it works great.
I use a 2 micron primary on my 322. If there's any issue with fuel, I want to get it as far upstream as I can. On my 322 I use a Turbo-Racor with 2 micron. Don't worry about fuel flow, it's sips little bits (unlike big diesels). On my 272 I kept the Groco, and plumbed a Racor spin-off filter in parallel (again, I prefer smaller filter as primary, why have to worry about secondary filters? Just get the crap out as soon as you can). This way if I have a fuel issue, I can flip the valves and keep going. This has happened once underway, and was pretty sweet!
If it is ok I would like to interject some science from knowledgeable sources regarding filter needs for boats.
One source is from 2005 (this stuff has not changed). Soundings is a magazine for Boat Owners.
There article is found at this link... https://www.soundingsonline.com/news/diesel-fuel-filters-which-should-you-choose
We should know what we are talking about... What is a micron and what does it mean to our Diesel engines... Lets ask Cummings.. A reputable Diesel engine manufacturer.. https://cumminsengines.com/what-is-a-micron
And finally looking at the Parker/Racor sight you get this message... https://www.parker.com/literature/Racor/Mobile_The_Micron_Rating.pdf and there filters are labeled and efficiency rated as follows:
Having read the Perkins manual backwards and forwards, I have not found a micron specification for the 4017 or 4108 engine. They state that the filter should be a “paper filter” and should be changed after 900 hours or based on the contamination in the fuel sooner than the 900 hours. Really specific. (Not). In practice, I have found that basing it on the amount of vacuum created in the intake fuel line I change the Primary filter. If the gauge gets to -10 “HG I figure the fuel pump is reaching the limit of it’s capacity and time to change the primary filter. I use 30 micron filters. For the secondary filter I use the Perkins filter listed for my 4107. I believe it is a 2 micron but it may be a 10 micron. The micron listing is not specified on the various sources for the paper filter. I have found that even with dirty fuel, I can change the Primary 3 times for each change of the secondary.
Hope that helps.
One source is from 2005 (this stuff has not changed). Soundings is a magazine for Boat Owners.
There article is found at this link... https://www.soundingsonline.com/news/diesel-fuel-filters-which-should-you-choose
We should know what we are talking about... What is a micron and what does it mean to our Diesel engines... Lets ask Cummings.. A reputable Diesel engine manufacturer.. https://cumminsengines.com/what-is-a-micron
And finally looking at the Parker/Racor sight you get this message... https://www.parker.com/literature/Racor/Mobile_The_Micron_Rating.pdf and there filters are labeled and efficiency rated as follows:
Racor makes filters with various filtration efficiencies, but its standards for non-OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) are 2, 10, and 30 micron filter elements. The actual efficiency ratings for these are 98%, 95%, and 90% respectively.
Having read the Perkins manual backwards and forwards, I have not found a micron specification for the 4017 or 4108 engine. They state that the filter should be a “paper filter” and should be changed after 900 hours or based on the contamination in the fuel sooner than the 900 hours. Really specific. (Not). In practice, I have found that basing it on the amount of vacuum created in the intake fuel line I change the Primary filter. If the gauge gets to -10 “HG I figure the fuel pump is reaching the limit of it’s capacity and time to change the primary filter. I use 30 micron filters. For the secondary filter I use the Perkins filter listed for my 4107. I believe it is a 2 micron but it may be a 10 micron. The micron listing is not specified on the various sources for the paper filter. I have found that even with dirty fuel, I can change the Primary 3 times for each change of the secondary.
Hope that helps.
I totally agree with your fuel filter concept. My Yanmar secondary fuel filter is behind the alternator so the only practical way to change it is to remove the alternator and some other stuff first. The Racor primary filter very easy to get to, inspect and change the element if needed.
When I bought the boat eleven years ago, the Yanmar ran well but the fuel and filters were very dirty and there was water in the Racor filter. One of the first things I did was to replace the original aluminum fuel tank with a larger modern translucent plastic tank with new level guage, change all of the fuel lines, change the Yanmar secondary filter (10 micron standard) element, change the Racor primary filter from a 10 micron element to a 2 micron element and added a Racor vacuum indicator. I always check the Racor sight glass and the vacuum indicator, and they are always clean. This fall I changed the Yanmar and Racor filter elements just because it has been ten years and 300 hrs of run time.
When I bought the boat eleven years ago, the Yanmar ran well but the fuel and filters were very dirty and there was water in the Racor filter. One of the first things I did was to replace the original aluminum fuel tank with a larger modern translucent plastic tank with new level guage, change all of the fuel lines, change the Yanmar secondary filter (10 micron standard) element, change the Racor primary filter from a 10 micron element to a 2 micron element and added a Racor vacuum indicator. I always check the Racor sight glass and the vacuum indicator, and they are always clean. This fall I changed the Yanmar and Racor filter elements just because it has been ten years and 300 hrs of run time.
Why have two sets of filters if both are at the same level? There is a reason and logic for the having the initial (grosser) filter. I understand that people do other things for different or no reasons.
The Racor water separators which provide both visual and vacuum measuring capabilities at different from the blind active filters which are usually 2 microns as the “final” filter.
We’ve put well over 200 hours a season on our primary engine for a while with annual trips up and back from Maine, in addition to Chesapeake Bay cruising. We have dual Racors with valves, pressure gauges, etc. I wouldn’t use a 2 micron filter as my initial filters because, it does little good with the 2 micron final one behind it; and, the bigger issue is that if you are in a real world situation with a limited crew on a passage, you don’t want your filters to jam up needlessly.
If you motor 20-40 hours per season, are only a short distance of from assistance, etc. — it probably doesn’t make much difference if you use excessive levels for your prefilter...as long as you watch it. If you motor more, you tend to pay more attention, then less, in my experience .
The Racor water separators which provide both visual and vacuum measuring capabilities at different from the blind active filters which are usually 2 microns as the “final” filter.
We’ve put well over 200 hours a season on our primary engine for a while with annual trips up and back from Maine, in addition to Chesapeake Bay cruising. We have dual Racors with valves, pressure gauges, etc. I wouldn’t use a 2 micron filter as my initial filters because, it does little good with the 2 micron final one behind it; and, the bigger issue is that if you are in a real world situation with a limited crew on a passage, you don’t want your filters to jam up needlessly.
If you motor 20-40 hours per season, are only a short distance of from assistance, etc. — it probably doesn’t make much difference if you use excessive levels for your prefilter...as long as you watch it. If you motor more, you tend to pay more attention, then less, in my experience .
Maine SailModerator
Joined Feb 6, 1998
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Canadian Sailcraft 36T
US Casco Bay, ME
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A 2μm filter really should not be used as a primary or secondary filter, unless you have a brand new common rail/electronic diesel... The use of a 2μm filter "will shorten fuel pump life" (Westerbeke's words not mine). I see this in the field on a pretty regular basis. On almost ever fuel pump I replace I find a 2μm filter in the system. In early april it was a failed diaphragham in a Yanmar. Owner had a 2μm and is on his third fuel pump. I have that identical engine with fuel pumps in excess of 30 years old still going strong but no 2μm filters.. When I see these pump failures the owner is sometimes on their second or third pump. I have small diesel engines out there that have in excess of 12,000 hours on them that have run 30μm primaries for over 30 years.
Westerbeke / Universal Recommendations:
For fuel hose runs of 10' or less, from tank to the fuel lift pump, Westerbeke / Universal recommends that the primary filter should be a 10μm or 30μm. For fuel runs of more than 10', between the tank and the fuel lift pump, the filter should be a 30μm. Westerbeke / Universal does not recommend running 2μm filters in these mechanical style engines.... All this info is verbatim from Westerbeke/Universal's engineer Bob B.
This is a copy of a post from Maine Sail , June 17, 2017
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As a +1 to MS post, Annapolis Yacht Sales (Benny dealer) had a Yanmar mechanic (well known in the field) give a seminar. In response to a question, his statement was to NOT use a 2 unless you have an electric fuel pump. A 2 will starve a mechanical pump, and, as MS points out, the vacuum will suck the guts out of the pump. It seems like common sense to me, but everyone has their opinions, be they right or wrong. And, if you KNOW a 30 is passing dirt down to the 10, why not have the 10 in there - maybe even in both?
d, as MS points out, the vacuum will suck the guts out of the pump. It seems like common sense to me, but everyone has their opinions, be they right or wrong. And, if you KNOW a 30 is passing dirt down to the 10, why not have the 10 in there - maybe even in both.
There is no free ride with filtration. Each time you put something in the line, you make it harder to pull (or push) something through it.
Height from pick up tube, level actually in the diesel tank,length and diameter of the hose, number of bends, valves, etc. are all impacting flow. I think that having an initial water sepaerator and particulate filter is very important — especially with a visual bowl to allow inspection (Racor-type filter). Then having a somewhat finer final filter is standard practice. I’d stick with 30 mic for the initial and then use 10 for final. Unless you have something unusual, that should be the end of it.
There is no free ride with filtration. Each time you put something in the line, you make it harder to pull (or push) something through it.
Height from pick up tube, level actually in the diesel tank,length and diameter of the hose, number of bends, valves, etc. are all impacting flow. I think that having an initial water sepaerator and particulate filter is very important — especially with a visual bowl to allow inspection (Racor-type filter). Then having a somewhat finer final filter is standard practice. I’d stick with 30 mic for the initial and then use 10 for final. Unless you have something unusual, that should be the end of it.