Pre purchase condition

[ElMico]

Hi everyone, first post here, looking for some advice on the condition of an early 80s Catalina 30 that I'm considering buying. It would not be my first boat, but would be my first sailboat and the first one that is enough money to care about.

I've done quite a bit of searching both here and general Google and haven't found real consensus answers, if I've missed something please point me to some links or search terms that will help me find some answers.

I've been out to see it once, both my wife and I felt like this is "the one" so it definitely passes the emotional test. It's outwardly in great condition with near new sails, rigging, dodger, and interior upholstery and woodwork. It has the M25 engine. The broker showed me the findings from a previous survey and there's a couple of things that I don't know whether to be concerned about or not. 1. Elevated moisture readings near the port windows and mast. All port windows have been replaced and are said to be leak free now. No soft spots or delam. Recommendation from the survey is to reseal deck hardware and monitor.
2. Catalina smile shows evidence of repair. Recommended to monitor the condition and use as is.

Other than that the boat appears to be in really good shape and checks all the boxes for us. I'm planning to go back in a couple of days and go over it with a fine toothed comb, run the engine etc and decide if it's worth paying for a survey and moving forward.

Any advice on whether those are deal breakers? I'm willing to take on maintenance, but I don't need another project. Is it reasonable to expect to find a boat in this price range (low 20k) that doesn't have these issues?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts!

 

[JK_Boston_Catalina310]

No, your expectations are not realistic. A boat will be a project, especially one more than 5 years old. There is regular maintenance required on all boats. Removing and rebedding deck hardware is part of that. The more these things are ignored the worse the condition.

Now is the boat worth the asking price, from the information you provided it likely is. If you still like the boat after poking around some more, go to the survey. The good thing is that since you like the Catalina 30 you will be able to find another if this one has an issue you don't want to deal with since it's the most popular boat ever built.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

If it were me, I'd ask the surveyor to focus on the mast step moisture issue as that can be a show-stopper if it's severe enough to lead to deck deformation in that area if the support post is also deteriorated in the bilge. Not an uncommon problem with Catalinas. Otherwise, it sonds like a typical older boat description.

 

[JRT]

Agree, look closely at the mast step and compression post to make sure these areas are solid. I'd also see if you can get a year the sails were made, newish could be 1990 compared to the originals from the 1980s, but they are probably still not great. I learned this lesson after my first year with my sails that I 'thought' were good but were not.

Price seems solid, I'd probably buy without a survey if she motors and sails are newish, but base on that survey I'd look at dropping a couple $1k from their asking price.

 

[mortyd]

you are considering a moderately priced boat going on 40 years old. what do you expect to find? and, if you pass on this boat what do you expect to find in the next boats you see? sailboats are not honda accords, you will always find issues.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

I'd make any offer "subject to survey and sea trial." I would not use a surveyor recommended by the broker or seller... I would find one that everyone who's used to BUY a boat recommends and brokers hate...'cuz brokers and sellers' goals are to unload the boat...you want to know what you're getting into and whether you should. Ask around the marina or call ABYC for a recommendation in that area.

That's my $.02 worth...others mileage may vary....

 

[FastOlson]

Read reply #6. Out loud. Twice. And again. Memorize....
It's worth a lot more than two cents.
I know one of the best surveyors in the NW, and as she points out, only the independent surveyor 'Speaks for the Boat'. All other parties have a more personal or financial interest in the the transaction.

 

[Will Gilmore]

welcome to SBO ElMico. You are in good hands.
I can offer little constructive advice beyond the wisdom that has already been dispensed. You sound capable and confident in your own ability to address issues. The mast step is made obvious by the survey you saw. If you do hire an independent survey, I suggest you shadow him/her and shut up and listen. The things you will learn, whether you buy this boat or another, will be invaluable.
Three boat herself and the price are decent choices of everything works out.

It is good to have you join us. I look forward to your further participation so, keep us posted.

-Will (Dragonfly)

 

[shemandr]

20K for a 30' 40 year old boat sounds like a lot of money to me. Most 30 footers of that vintage would be lucky to sell for 10k. To get that money the boat should be in excellent condition. Sail away, no issues.
Mast step and compression post are critical. Check turnbuckles. They should be close to in the middle of adjustment range. If they are adjusted towards the short end it could indicate deck sagging which would be as Don said a deal killer - especially at that price.

 

[ElMico]

Hey, thanks for the quick replies! I know that every boat will be something of a project, and I'm ready for that, just meant that I don't want a "project boat" that needs deck recoring.

Headsail was new in 2016, main is currently unknown to me, but "newer", I'll be checking that out further.

My gut feeling is that a boat in this price range is going to have some issues. I'm not expecting perfection, just looking for level of severity. I did check the compression post and block, seemed solid, but that was before I got the previous survey results. I'll definitely be looking closely there. Will also be getting a professional survey if I can't rule out this boat first.

My main concern at this point is the wet spots in the deck. My gut feeling is that some high percentage of boats in this price range will have some wet spots and that it's not that big of a deal. Since no one has really commented directly on wet core spots, perhaps that is correct? Limited area, no apparent delamination or rot = reseal and go sailing? Or does that mean re-core before the rot spreads?

As far as value, I guess that's the proverbial $20k question... The boats I've looked at that are below that are pretty rough or have issues that I don't want to deal with. Not sure what they end up selling for vs listing price.

Thanks again!

 

[JRT]

If you go and look at it again to determine go-no go on a survey, take a ton of pictures. Like close-ups of mast areas, bilge, through holes, I stick my phone with flashlight on into dark corners and take pics. The pretty stuff outside is one thing but the bones under that dressing are pretty important.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

John gave you good advice. I wouldn't go for a survey until you have an accepted offer that's "subject to survey and sea trial." Be there for the survey (don't even think of hiring any surveyor who wouldn't want you there!) and follow Will's advice...with one exception: ASK QUESTIONS!! And there are no stupid ones, so ask away! The best surveyors welcome questions because they all love to educate their clients.

 

[HMT2]

Check turnbuckles. They should be close to in the middle of adjustment range. If they are adjusted towards the short end it could indicate deck sagging

Great tip!

 

[jssailem]

@ElMico Welcome to the Forum. You are getting good info on buying a boat. An early 80’s boat means a boat that is 40plus years old. If you are emotionally sure about the boat then you need to have it Surveyed. If Sails are “newish” then, take them to a loft like the Ballard Boys near Shilshole Marina and ask their opinion.
How old is the rigging? A boat like this may have been raced. If so then the rigging will have aged. The turnbuckle idea from @shemandr is a good point to check. What about the life lines. Plastic wrapped or stainless wire. During survey have the boat hauled and verify the hull condition (blisters?) and issues like rudder slop, prop shaft slop, etc maybe revealed. Examine the mast base for water/corrosion/rot. Lights up the mast working/lease clarity/electrical corrosion, the furler (if one is installed) connections/function/bearings.
There are so many things... All will cost you. Most all are evident on a 40yearold plus boat.
For the price you are quoting (low 20 K) how much more are you willing to invest, and still have a boat valued at “20 something”.
Good luck. And again Welcome. This is a great group of skilled sailors.

 

[BeachGuy]

Recently purchased a 1980 Catalina 30, cheap, really cheap. Knowing that it had not received much love in the last 8 to 10 years. Here is a short list of items which needed immediate attention.
1. Exhaust manifold cracked.
2. Fuel tank corroded at bottom, tank was empty so no leak seen.
3. Toilet was removed for new pump valve, but had large crack at bottom of the waste holding tank which could not be seen until water was pumped in.
4. All exhaust, pressure water lines, black water lines, cockpit scuber lines were original from 1980.
5. Electrical was original, in other words crap.
6. Compression wall aft of head was in bad shape, right next to the compression post. Water intrusion from the mast dimple/compressed into the hull.
7. Had to change out 4 thru hull fittings. The original ones were Catalina Yacht crappy ones which leaked. Bring a cheap moisture meter and test around each thru hull fitting.
8. Haul out, bottom paint, thru hull fittings, bronze prop shaft, wore out prop, slop in the rudder (old style). $$$$
Add a list like this to bad rigging and you have a great refit project for yourself. New rigging is cheap compared to the above list. Look for all the small stuff. Then look again.

 

[Ward H]

1. Elevated moisture readings near the port windows and mast.

Look at the deck around the mast. Does it look like a bird bath? If not it depends on how wet. Elevated moisture readings may mean you just need to pull the mast plate, over drill the mast plate deck holes, use the bent nail trick to dig out any wet deck, fill with epoxy and re-drills holes.
My surveyor noted some moisture around a chain plate but no delamitation or voids. He said to re bed the chain plates and I would be good.

Sounds like the windows have been fixed but a new survey will confirm that.

I doubt you could find a C30 of that era that have dry decks.

2. Catalina smile shows evidence of repair. Recommended to monitor the condition and use as is.

Confirm what "evidence of repair" means. Did someone "fill" the smile or did they fix the root cause, rotted plywood keel stub. Check this forum and http://www.catalina30.com for keel stub repair. Again, depends on what was repaired and how bad it was/is, which a knowledgeable surveyor should determine.

For an early 80s C30 the price seems high to me unless it is sail away condition with just some routine maintenance required. Have the trailer plugs been removed from the engine panel wiring harness? Was the ammeter been replaced with a volt meter? Of course prices vary by region.
If you can find an 88 or newer C30 a lot of the known problems were solved by then. Wiring improvements, no more plywood in the keel stub and higher HP diesel.

And to repeat what others have said, do not believe the broker and only use a previous survey to help identify areas to give special attention to when you are looking at the boat. Also note how old the survey is.
Is the broker sharing the full survey with you or just the highlights? IE: I looked at one boat a marina was brokering. They shared a year old survey the current owner had down when he bought the boat. One item was a loose motor mount nut. It was till loose. If the owner couldn't even tighten a motor mount nut, forget that boat.

I bought my C30 in Nov knowing it had a lot of deferred maintenance and I still found good old boat surprises.

I wouldn't let those two items be a deal killer if everything else appeared OK but be ready to walk if your surveyor says they are major.

 

[jssailem]

intimidate

Such a list might intimidate you with immediate repairs.
Make a plan. Most important (boat might sink) to lesser critical (I can take the boat out for the day and get safely home) to ok but must fix before I go on the around the world cruise.
Then proceed to work on them while also enjoying your new to you boat.

 

[BeachGuy]

Such a list might intimidate you with immediate repairs.
Make a plan. Most important (boat might sink) to lesser critical (I can take the boat out for the day and get safely home) to ok but must fix before I go on the around the world cruise.
Then proceed to work on them while also enjoying your new to you boat.

Thanks John, spelling error corrected. I like the way you worked around it.

 

[jssailem]

It is a curse.