Post compression help

rardiH36 · Jan 14, 2013

hummingbirdbassist said:
Any one in the severna park area of md( near Annapolis) got any free time and know how on fixing a mast compression in bilge on 30 hunter 1980, give me a email reply ,,,, hummingbirdbassist@hotmail.com,
We can talk compensation

Hi:

Don't know if you are mentioning about compensation for the advice time or to do actually do the work. If it's the former, and you haven't already done so, here is a link to this site's most useful search page.

http://hunter.sailboatowners.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&br=hunter&Itemid=274

Type "compression post". Then use the buttons for "exact phrase", "title, author, and message" (suggest) "oldest first". Then author = none, brand = Hunter, Model = none, and Forum = Cherubini. The outcome is 117 results. There is H30 info contained in quite a few of them ... which may help you. I noticed that narrowing the search to just "H30" misses a lot of the threads for your model, since that specific description of your model is not always used. You will just have to open the post/threads in the search result and find which ones might be of interest.

ggrizzard · Jan 14, 2013

All of us with vintage H30 C's (and other boats) have faced this problem. It's well documented in the archives here. So, start reading before hiring a 'Pro' to do the work. At least you'll know if the repair proposal is legit.

rardiH36 · Jan 15, 2013

hummingbirdbassist said:
... Oh yeah it's a " documented vessel" someone please explain that to me? ....

Great purchase experience you had!

Generally two ways to register a vessel. "Document" it with the US Coast Guard. Or go with the boat department of your state's DMV. In California, with the state option, one must affix a long series of registration numbers on both sides of the bow and affix the annual registration sticker there as well. Ruins the fine lines of the Cherubini look. With the Coast Guard, the outside markings are just the boat's name and home port on the stern. Inside, the documentation number must be prominently displayed and permanently attached someplace where it can be readily observed. Have you found it in your boat? Once your address is in the Coast Guard's records, once a year they will send you a form requesting confirmation that you still own the vessel. Upon your returning it, they will then send you a new documentation certificate good for the next year. This must be kept on the vessel. Annual fee is $0.

Here is a link to the Coast Guard's FAQ page for Documentation.

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/nvdc/nvdcfaq.asp

I believe that the Documentation Certificate also serves the similar purpose as a pink slip for a car. On the back are spaces for conveying ownership. I've never done it so can't advise much more. Since the vessel is already documented, I would think preferable to maintain rather than go State. Suggest follow up on the procedures with the website link or other. Important to do if not already in progress. Also a search on SBO is bound to reveal more. I purchased my boat through a broker, who took care of the paper work. In California, one must be sure that the county tax office is informed so they know to send out the annual tax bill. Sooner or later, the info catches up -- back taxes and penalties are then accessed.

DianaOfBurlington · Jan 22, 2013

JC on the compression post... again

Many of those archive posts about compressions posts are probably mine!

I have written about this countless times. The one major caveat I will insist upon making here is in reiteration of my constant harangue: DO NOT USE PRESSURE-TREATED PORCH LUMBER FOR THIS. If you have any doubt, I'll explain; but the archives are your best starting place at this point.

I am 2-1/2 hours from Annapolis and have cheap rates (usually including a steak and a beer). Scheduling this would be the worst hassle; but anything is possible.

Nelsonhow · Jan 24, 2013

I probably agree but don't know why ! Why not pressure treated porch lumber ?

tomgrigsby · Jan 25, 2013

Regarding water intrusion, there are a few spots where it can come in. It'll blow in under loose hatch seals, leak around the mast base, and leak around the companionway hatch. You'll sometimes find water in your engine pan, and it comes from rainwater at the hatch. Puckered floor probably from water on the floor rather than mast compression. How about posting pictures of the I beam and let us take a look?
You bought a great boat by the way. I couldn't be happier with how my 79 sails.

DianaOfBurlington · Jan 25, 2013

Pressure-treated is not a compression post.

Nelsonhow said:
I probably agree but don't know why ! Why not pressure treated porch lumber ?

Nelson, at first I hoped you were joking. In case you are not I will, with respect, explain.

I have two realms of expertise-- I grew up building boats with the family (started 40 years ago last summer) and worked as a framer with my brother in those periods when he, I or we were ticked-off at the family (gotta love family business). In that time I gained a very thorough working knowledge of pressure-treated lumber and have reached the point where I have almost no respect for it as a building material.

Consider:

1. Nearly all, or all, of retail-available pressure-treated lumber is southern yellow pine. This wood already has a resistance to rot, in ground contact, of probably 10-15 years to start with. So Wolman and others who 'guarantee' it for 25-40 years against rot in ground contact are not boasting so much of their own product. I built a planter out of raw yellow pine for our front yard and it sat there 12 years and never exhibited a single sign of rot.

2. Most pressure-treated wood is in a green state when it is treated at the factory. It is not kiln-dried like fir studs and other good stuff; therefore it is not dimensionally stable. Yellow pine is notoriously unstable anyway, typically weepy with sap and prone to bending. This is why the pressure-treating solution is dyed green-- to hide the fact that it's applied to green wood which would be visibly green anyway.

3. Being both dimensionally unstable and green, the dimensional stability (ability of the plank to remain at the same size and shape) of yellow pine makes it utterly unsuitable for structural members. Making a deck out of it is fine; it's outside and isn't holding up living space. If you ever build living space on top of a deck, wait and see what the building-code officials will say! I like to say that the fourth dimension is time-- you have length, width, thickness and the amount of time between when you bought the first piece and when you bought the last piece. Don't assume they'll match-- they won't. (Add this to the fact that they cut the pressure-treated 2-by planks at 1-1/2" or 1-5/8" when green; so by the time the wood starts drying you'll be lucky to keep 1-3/8" if even that.) The guys who build Jersey speed garveys actually rely on the wood's instability; for they use no caulk-- just fit the planks all tightly together and launch the boat. In three days the leaks stop because the planks have all swelled together. Is behavior like this in a humid environment what we would want for a compression post?

4. Yellow pine, unlike spruce, has an absolutely awful compression rating. White spruce and, the best, sitka spruce, on the other hand, have a tremendous compression rating. What this means is that, when you stand a plank vertically and apply weight to the top edge, with the load in a straight line down the plank, the spruce will hold it and the yellow pine will go every which way and then split somewhere, rather dramatically. The fact that the stuff you buy retail is green is only more against it. Though spruce looks very much like fir, which is what standard construction lumber is made of, there is one easy way to tell which you have. Hold up the plank on edge and drop it about 4-6 inches to the concrete floor. The fir stud will go 'thunk'. The spruce will sing, 'peenk!' --rather like the difference between Honda and Ferrari F1 cars going round a corner.

5. Pressure-treated lumber takes paint, stain, epoxy, glue and other adhesives really poorly, as the solution with which the wood is impregnated repels water and therefore everything else. But the wood's awful dimensional properties would make treating it with epoxy only a waste of epoxy. It is what it is; not much will improve it.

6. The pressure-treating solution is a known carcinogen. It should never be used near gardens, especially where there are root vegetables. Here in NJ we were issued a warning to not plant tomatoes (our NJ specialty) within 16 feet of pressure-treated porch posts. You should never burn it in a fireplace and it really should not be buried or thrown into dumps as it's a toxin and biohazard. My uncle's dog padded about on their deck and licked the sweet-tasting stuff off his feet till he got leukemina and died. I built a deck behind my house and found that for merely twice the price of pressure-treated I could plank it with white cedar, which did not splinter under bare feet, smelled like a freshly-sharpened pencil and felt so clean you would bathe in its dust. I never worried the kids crawling or playing on it whereas with pressure-treated I would have forbade them to play out there at all (and what would be the point of the deck?). As far as why the retail shops like Lowe's do not offer the consumer an appropriate MSDS informing him of this, I cannot tell you; but it has bothered me for 35 years.

I have a good friend who framed the cockpit of his antique motorboat with pressure-treated and I was aghast. This is an intelligent guy who, for some reason, believed more strongly in the rot-fighting properties of pressure-treated than he did in those of WEST epoxy and good old-fashioned mahogany. I've never had the heart to tell him I expect the plywood sole to part from it when the pressure-treated changes its shape, especially in length. Then the plywood will be vulnerable (and he'll have the same problem he set about to fix in the first place).

White spruce is not expensive or rare enough to avoid for any reason. Any good lumberyard will have it or can get it. It takes epoxy really well and looks gorgeous with varnish. I can't remember what I paid for a 2x4 of it; but I still have half of what I bought. (And I may be coming into a castoff spruce spar, from a Storm Sandy wreck, which will make really nice replacement compression posts.

)

Forgive the awful pic, taken a while ago, but it shows my replacement compression post. (The top plate is not installed in this pic.) This has only about 3 coats of Captain's Varnish (so far).

In the other pic you can see the grain of the spruce. It sort of resembles fir only in the pattern; in texture it is much smoother and gentler.

Nelsonhow · Jan 25, 2013

Not that I would ever use pressure treated for anything except a board between the bumpers of my truck. Thanks for the detailed explanation. I Bet that Home Depot is glad you don't stand I front of those pressure treated wood bins!

tomgrigsby · Jan 26, 2013

It looks like your post has slid to the port side a bit (your cheese has slid off your cracker). I'm going down to my boat later today and will get a better picture of the lineup. You can see in the picture that my post is more centered on the bilge opening. Looks to me like you can probably straighten the steel support plate top, and once you replace the flooring and recenter the post, you will be in good shape. You'll have to get a jack in there and raise the roof/mast back to proper height to get the post loose and gain the clearance to fix the support plate and flooring. Probably need to loosen the shrouds to raise the deck/mast back to proper position.

Post compression help

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