Pocket cruiser recommendations for family of 3

JRT

.
Feb 14, 2017
2,047
Catalina 310 211 Lake Guntersville, AL
The Ebay one is interesting, I'd go max $1500 and probably take the motor for $2,000 if it looked and ran ok. I'd plan on new sails so budget $2-3k. He says he paid $3k for that 20 hp motor so it was used, That seems like a big motor to me so consider that too, in my lake area I think I could flip that motor for $3k.
 
Jul 24, 2018
24
None right now still lookin' North Atlanta
We had a Mac 26d for 6 years and loved it. We towed it with a Van like yours with no problems. The best thing I liked was that you did not feel the boat when towing as it only weighted 1200lb with out the water. On the water we could beach it as it only needed 18".
You had a FWD minivan? If so, that's inspiring. I've been towing my little Widgeon with no problems up ramps, but after reading some stories, I see where I could get into trouble with more weight back there.

I think 2WD pickups have it the worst though on ramps - no weight in the back (although, "live ballast" in the bed works to help with traction).
 
Jul 24, 2018
24
None right now still lookin' North Atlanta
The Ebay one is interesting, I'd go max $1500 and probably take the motor for $2,000 if it looked and ran ok. I'd plan on new sails so budget $2-3k. He says he paid $3k for that 20 hp motor so it was used, That seems like a big motor to me so consider that too, in my lake area I think I could flip that motor for $3k.
He says he has the original receipt, and "paid new" $3300 for it. I wouldn't know what they cost new, so don't know if that's realistic or not. (Actually, just checked, and they're $3k at Worst Marine, 15" shaft, so probably more for L or XL shaft)

I agree, that 20hp is oversized for the boat.

Does anyone else think the trailer looks undersized? I know the boat doesn't weight but 1600lbs, but I'd guess the tongue weight is next to nothing with so much boat (and outboard) behind the axle. Remember, no solid ballast, so that's not a weighted keel sitting on the trailer frame.

IF I was to win that auction (a big "IF"), I'd probably spend a few days down there and trade up to a properly sized trailer, maybe even new. It's 10 hrs, 600 miles to get back home. I don't like risking things when towing.

s-l1600.jpg
 
Jul 24, 2018
24
None right now still lookin' North Atlanta
I think I'd be more apt to pick this up in Miami/Ft. Lauderdale than that MacGregor:

https://miami.craigslist.org/pbc/boa/d/1970-westerly-pageant-23-6hp/6636690475.html

Not too much fun to rig and launch, but that'd be a "moored for the season" (or... forever) type boat for us. I like the fact that she could go anywhere! Built like a brick. I could see spending a few days/weeks at the coast in something like that, then trailering it back home until our next hoo-rah.

Some people trailer their Westerly Centaurs (bigger sister at 26' LOA) on a flatbed trailer (backwards!), and crane on/off. For this purchase, I could rent a trailer, and a truck, and tote her back to my lake.

If it had a trailer, I might have already left to go see it. Good excuse for a road trip at least.

00e0e_fiYJh5oZGGc_1200x900.jpg
 

JRT

.
Feb 14, 2017
2,047
Catalina 310 211 Lake Guntersville, AL
Trailer is not right. I think it could damage the boat if traveling that far.

Research trailers firts, they are not usually available and are custom made for a boat.
 
Jan 1, 2006
7,069
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
Tons of options. I'll throw my 2 cents in with a Cape Dory Typhoon (22'). Bullet proof, Trailerable, a real sailboat, sails well if not fast, stable for the family, accommodations definitely on the camping side, full keel but draft is only 3'. Carl Alberg pedigree.
 
Sep 25, 2008
464
Catalina 30 MKIII Varuna Boat Club
Hi all. I've found this forum really helpful when researching boats, so I decided to register and make a post myself.

I currently own an early 1970's 12 ft O'day Widgeon, which I've enjoyed restoring over the past year, but the rest of the family (wife + 6-year-old son) is a little intimidated by its instability in the water. Consequently, when "we" take it camping, the crew enjoys a boat trip with me for about 30 min, then goes ashore to hang out at the beach or campsite. I thought I could combine camping and sailing somehow. A "pocket cruiser" with a weighted keel might keep them on board with me and we could eventually try some gunkholing/weekending. We've chartered larger boats (34', 44') and enjoyed the experience, but I know we need to start smaller.

Sailing would be on inland lakes. My home lake (Allatoona), is fairly narrow and surrounded by tall pines, which makes for shifting winds and frequent puffs. Sailing in a dinghy is all that more "exciting" (read: white-knuckled), so I'm looking forward to a larger vessel myself.

Wants:
1200-2500 lbs boat + trailer (I have a FWD mini-van rated for 3500lbs, but would need trailer brakes when approaching that weight).
Capable of weekending - cabin, chemical toilet, sleeping for 3, galley (I wouldn't mind fabbing up a "chuck box"/portable galley myself)
No swing keel; needs to be centerboard or stub keel. (I know the centerboard helps to point higher, but it's also one more thing to go wrong out on the water)

I'm considering:
  • O'day 20 - $2200, newer outboard, 4.5 hrs away, bal/disp 25%. Has galley.
  • Tangerine 18 ($1200 with trolling motor. I've heard to steer clear of these, as they're not designed well, but it's 10 minutes away. Cabin access looks like climbing through a manhole. Bal/disp 37%
  • Sanibel 17 - $1700, no outboard, 4.5 hrs away. Int'l Marine makes the Potter 15 and 19, so I'm thinking build quality would be good. Bal/disp 33%
  • Slipper 17 - $1200, propane outboard, stuck centerboard, needs bottom paint. 4 hrs away. Beamy (8') and light (1250lbs). Roomy for its size. Even has a sink below. Bal/disp 35%
  • MFG 19' - $1000, no outboard, 2 hrs away, roller trailer. I was about to call and look at this one today, but bal/disp is 25%, which seems awful tippy compared to the others here. Lots of room for the weight though, 1600lbs disp
  • Com-Pac 16 - $2500, ancient Honda OB, 1.5hrs away. I'm thinking too small for the three of us. Bal/disp 41%
  • MacGregor 26S - $6250, 4 hrs away. Water ballast, which I've heard terrible and wonderful things about. Seems like it'd be a handful to tow it with my van, but other 26S owners state boat+trailer weight is ~2200lbs. Lots of room for the family, but a much larger investment (size + money).

Anyone have experience with any of these models?

What has been your experience with weekending with the family? What size works for a family of 3? I'm thinking stay small for cost, rigging time, and simplicity, but if I go too small we won't be comfortable, and I'll be a lone sailor again. Too big and it'll be too much for us (read: me) to rig and tow frequently. Seasonal mooring is an option, I suppose. I like the idea of being able to run to the marina at the spur of the moment just to toast the sunset from the cockpit. And hey, stay the night if I toast a couple times!

I've heard "go look at as many as you can; you'll know "the one" when you see it", but I still figured I'd post to see if I can get any more input before pulling the trigger on one of these. I'm really just arm-chair sailing this morning and trying to avoid work.

Comments?


Joe



View attachment 154070
Hi Joe,
I'm going to throw you a curve ball. In 1997 I bought my first cruising type sailboat. It was a 1977 Chrysler 22. Yes, Chrysler actually made sailboats (an 18, 22 & 25) for about three years. They were designed by Herrishoff.
It wasn't until I really learned about this boat that I developed a real respect and admiration for it. The Chrysler 22 weighs in at 2400 lbs., with an 800 lb. swing keel, making it the heaviest boat in it's class. It was literally built like a tank and really sailed like a big boat. I eventually replaced the 110 genoa with a new 165 after realizing that the boat could easily handle a lot more sail. I sailed that boat with my family until 2008 when I upgraded to a Catalina 30....primarily for more comfort for my wife and I and the ability to sail in winds over 20 kts. without working too hard. The amount of cabin space was more than generous. The pull out galley was an extra added convenience and the curtained off porta-potty was more than tolerable. With both the 9.9 Yamana(which was stolen off the boat) or the replacement 8 hp Yamaha with all the bells and whistles, I was able to reach 6.5 kts under power and sometime, under ideal conditions, 7 knots under sail. I think it's obvious that I loved this little boat. I would strongly recommend this boat, (if you can find one), to anyone looking for a dependable, comfortable and very forgiving Pocket Cruiser. If you have any questions about this boat, I would be thrilled to answer what I can. Happy Sailing.....
 

leo310

.
Dec 15, 2006
638
Catalina 310 44 Campbell River BC
Yes it was a FWD V6 Van Going up and down ramps was no problem. Setup and take down took about 30 min.
 
Jan 19, 2010
12,370
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
Trailer is not right. I think it could damage the boat if traveling that far.

Research trailers firts, they are not usually available and are custom made for a boat.
:plus:
More to the point... that trailer is WRONG!
 
Jun 8, 2004
10,052
-na -NA Anywhere USA
Regarding the pictured trailer above with the name Sandy Seas, two problems with the first is the unlawful overhang which in many states is illegal warranting a ticket. Then the damage to the hull from oil canning with damage to the ribs/stringers/ bulkheads.
 
Jul 24, 2018
24
None right now still lookin' North Atlanta
Hi Joe,
I'm going to throw you a curve ball. In 1997 I bought my first cruising type sailboat. It was a 1977 Chrysler 22. Yes, Chrysler actually made sailboats (an 18, 22 & 25) for about three years. They were designed by Herrishoff.
It wasn't until I really learned about this boat that I developed a real respect and admiration for it. ...
I would strongly recommend this boat, (if you can find one), to anyone looking for a dependable, comfortable and very forgiving Pocket Cruiser. If you have any questions about this boat, I would be thrilled to answer what I can. Happy Sailing.....
Yep, I have nothing against Chrysler boats, as I've heard the same things about them.
Where I got most of my info:
https://www.practical-sailor.com/reviews/boatreview/Chrysler_22-1158-1.html


I found a few Chryslers for sale:

"Recently Refit"
https://knoxville.craigslist.org/boa/d/recently-refit-22-cruiser/6651310047.html

Ready for a refit (with a nice price)
https://greenville.craigslist.org/boa/d/22ft-boat-with-dining-room/6604715631.html

A 20 ft'er (price seems high)
https://macon.craigslist.org/boa/d/chrysler-20-monohull-foot/6632698566.html


If I didn't mind the swing keel, I'd probably have already looked at the "recently refit" one. It looks like that owner put a lot of work into getting it right. (Why then, would he/she be selling it now?)

Again though, I have no personal experience with weighted swing keels, so perhaps shouldn't be so biased. At this point, I can only make judgments based on other's experiences.
https://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/swing-keel-issues.166795/

(Maybe because I'm also a mechanical engineer; in the real world, we're always looking to keep things as simple as possible. Philosophies ingrained in my psyche from the past 20 years: "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." Occam's razor - simplest solution tends to be the right one.)

A philosophical example: the "Low-resistance" sailboat:
http://themagicm.com/kent/sailing/shopping.htm (Spoiler Alert: while I greatly admire the Sea Pearl for it's gracefulness and simple, functional design, I need a cabin!)

That article may be the reason I keep looking for something in the 16-21' range. Small and light enough that I could still row it, and could be trailered anywhere.....
 

JRT

.
Feb 14, 2017
2,047
Catalina 310 211 Lake Guntersville, AL
I share you concern with swing keels also as an Aircraft Engineer. One of the reason I like the O'Day was the weighted stub keel and centerboard. The bad is of course the centerboard gets stuck too and does not have enough weight (60 lbs) to drop unless I dive under the boat and get it loose (no trailer and no lift with straps at my marine. You sound like you have a strong DIY drive, I do to but also have very little time with older kids now so I went with closer to ready to go and less work options. Like Jackdraw said it is going to be pretty hard to be 'comfortable' with 3 on these boats sizes but sounds like the trailer is the right way to go. I'd also stick with a freshwater boat too
 
Jun 8, 2004
10,052
-na -NA Anywhere USA
Any older boat particularly a swing keel warrants an inspection and if you do not know what to look for, then a surveyor is suggested.

I believe it was Chrysler that had two plants with one on the west coast and the other in Suffolk, Virginia which I visited Something tells me the production of the smaller boats lasted longer than three years but not sure
 
Apr 26, 2015
660
S2 26 Mid On Trailer
Keep things in prospective. There are tens of thousands of swing keel boats out there and you hear a couple of bad things. Remember most people don't post great things, just problems. I've had many swing keels and replaced cables. pins and winches on others. Unless someone has knocked the keel off and damaged the pin area all it takes is proper maintenance. :doh: A swing keel boat will be heavier than a water ballasted boat.

As far as launching and retrieving with a mini van, spend a Sunday afternoon at your local ramp and then decide on the vans capabilities, especially when the ramp gets wet after a couple of boats pull out. Take a tow strap. I used it several times with a 1000# boat in my mini van days but alas I'm only one complainer among millions of mini van owners. ;) Good luck on making a decision. :what:
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
(Maybe because I'm also a mechanical engineer; in the real world, we're always looking to keep things as simple as possible. Philosophies ingrained in my psyche from the past 20 years: "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." Occam's razor - simplest solution tends to be the right one.)
Great discussion. Building things to me has been more KISS than Occam; which I've always gone to for explaining phenomena.
 
Jun 8, 2004
2,855
Catalina 320 Dana Point
That actually looks like a jetski trailer to me.
In ancient times I had a hitch on the front bumper of my '65 Dodge van to launch and retrieve a Lido 14, wide Polyglas tires were slicker than snot when wet.
"Any consumer product with more than an on/off switch is over engineered" Anonymous
 
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Likes: LloydB
Sep 30, 2016
339
Island Packet IP 44 Ventura, CA
Im on my 3rd year of my first sailboat, a Hunter 23.5. I love it. We are going on a one week sail in a few weeks, pending the weather. Looking forward to it. Easy to trailer. I think its 3200 lbs w trailer. Easy to raise/lower the mast. Especially after you have done it a few times. I like the swing keel because you can actually beach the boat if you want to. But I know that comes with a performance hit. Large cockpit, alcohol stove, chem toilet, easy to sail. Handles 4 adults quite comfortably. More than that and it starts getting cramped. Came close to getting a West Wight Potter, but didnt. They have a strong following, but they are pricey.
 

Sumner

.
Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country

That actually looks like a jetski trailer to me....
I also thought the trailer looked really short in the picture above but then looked at the listing and ...

... in a front view there it looked to be about the same length as the original Mac trailer. Since we tow long distance I added a second axle with brakes. Also lengthened the trailer and added a third bunk to ours since we tow with a lot of weight in the boat.

The S is about 1650-1800 lbs. dead empty (has 1200 lbs. of water ballast) and for most people the combined weight of the trailer and boat with reasonable items in it is probably 2800 to 3100 lbs.. It does launch easily in shallow water and the ...

... aft berth is huge which can be a benefit for more than two people. With the 16"-18" draft you can easily beach it with the swing (no weight) centerboard and rudder that kicks up and go places a lot of sailboats won't go. Love ours,

Sumner
=============================================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas
 
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Jul 24, 2018
24
None right now still lookin' North Atlanta
Thanks everyone for your recommendations and help.

Sumner, I bookmarked your site and will use it as a future reference. Lots of good stuff there.

The seller of the eBay MacGregor 26s pulled the original listing, and relisted it with an unknown reserve. It's at $1525 now, and hasn't met the reserve price. I'll pass on that one.

I looked at the Tangerine 18 yesterday, and wasn't impressed. I like projects, I like working on boats, and I do everything in my power to save stuff from the landfill. But between the condition it was in (multiple, large soft spots on deck, all exterior wood (incl rudder) needs to be replaced) and the cheesy design, I think this one should be scrapped. I've read elsewhere that the price of an older trailer sailer should approximate the worth of the trailer, sails, and outboard, with the boat being free. I'd agree with that statement, and think it applies here (a 5hp outboard was included). The seating area of cockpit was abnormally small (4'?) due to the forward rake of the companionway (which itself is a hole to crawl through to get to the cabin).

Looking is fun though, and that's why we spend the effort on looking at different boats - to see what we like and don't like. Myself, I want a sliding hatch above the companionway.

For the past few years, I've been planning on building a teardrop style or gypsy wagon camper for my family, and have a ton of design ideas for convertible sleeping and storage areas, kitchen, etc. Could I implement those ideas into a boat that needs its interior rebuilt? A cabin rebuild has certainly been done before, (link) and doesn't look too hard. The Cal 21 has a swing keel, and some odd design quirks though (detachable keel cable, removable cap for when it's deployed). However, it's a 21-footer that weighs 1100 lbs (360lb keel). Lots of room, and I could tow it with anything. I'll pass this time, but maybe if it was local....

I guess what I'm heading toward is a stable, floating camper that's lightweight and easy to tow and launch. Something along the lines of author Larry Brown's philosophy:

"Let me share with you a fairly well-kept secret. It's so often true we could almost call it a law: The use a boat gets is in inverse proportion to its size and cost"...."Think minimum. Buy something that costs less than you can afford. Accept the challenge. Find ways to make due." (from "Frugal Yachting", "Part I: The Invitation").

That, and the fact that no boat is ever "big enough"; everyone eventually has "two-foot-itis" and wants something larger (until they realize it's too big to use easily or too expensive to maintain). I've owned larger power boats and learned this lesson myself.

Maybe something will come around this fall/winter, when the market's more depressed and prices lower. I can spend the winter getting her ready for next year.

You can't get any cheaper than FREE though!
https://www.free-boat.com/free/26-grampian-port-orange-fl/?lang=en (not really trailerable though due to keel)
https://www.free-boat.com/free/westerly-25-twin-keel-boat-kinsale-va/?lang=en (sorta trailerable, but too heavy for me)

(Yes, I know the "free" boat is also the most expensive, in the long run. It's just fun to look though.)

Anyhow, enough rambling! Back to work!