Pocket cruiser recommendations for family of 3

[Joe the Sailor]

Hi all. I've found this forum really helpful when researching boats, so I decided to register and make a post myself.

I currently own an early 1970's 12 ft O'day Widgeon, which I've enjoyed restoring over the past year, but the rest of the family (wife + 6-year-old son) is a little intimidated by its instability in the water. Consequently, when "we" take it camping, the crew enjoys a boat trip with me for about 30 min, then goes ashore to hang out at the beach or campsite. I thought I could combine camping and sailing somehow. A "pocket cruiser" with a weighted keel might keep them on board with me and we could eventually try some gunkholing/weekending. We've chartered larger boats (34', 44') and enjoyed the experience, but I know we need to start smaller.

Sailing would be on inland lakes. My home lake (Allatoona), is fairly narrow and surrounded by tall pines, which makes for shifting winds and frequent puffs. Sailing in a dinghy is all that more "exciting" (read: white-knuckled), so I'm looking forward to a larger vessel myself.

Wants:
1200-2500 lbs boat + trailer (I have a FWD mini-van rated for 3500lbs, but would need trailer brakes when approaching that weight).
Capable of weekending - cabin, chemical toilet, sleeping for 3, galley (I wouldn't mind fabbing up a "chuck box"/portable galley myself)
No swing keel; needs to be centerboard or stub keel. (I know the centerboard helps to point higher, but it's also one more thing to go wrong out on the water)

I'm considering:

• O'day 20 - $2200, newer outboard, 4.5 hrs away, bal/disp 25%. Has galley.
• Tangerine 18 ($1200 with trolling motor. I've heard to steer clear of these, as they're not designed well, but it's 10 minutes away. Cabin access looks like climbing through a manhole. Bal/disp 37%
• Sanibel 17 - $1700, no outboard, 4.5 hrs away. Int'l Marine makes the Potter 15 and 19, so I'm thinking build quality would be good. Bal/disp 33%
• Slipper 17 - $1200, propane outboard, stuck centerboard, needs bottom paint. 4 hrs away. Beamy (8') and light (1250lbs). Roomy for its size. Even has a sink below. Bal/disp 35%
• MFG 19' - $1000, no outboard, 2 hrs away, roller trailer. I was about to call and look at this one today, but bal/disp is 25%, which seems awful tippy compared to the others here. Lots of room for the weight though, 1600lbs disp
• Com-Pac 16 - $2500, ancient Honda OB, 1.5hrs away. I'm thinking too small for the three of us. Bal/disp 41%
• MacGregor 26S - $6250, 4 hrs away. Water ballast, which I've heard terrible and wonderful things about. Seems like it'd be a handful to tow it with my van, but other 26S owners state boat+trailer weight is ~2200lbs. Lots of room for the family, but a much larger investment (size + money).

Anyone have experience with any of these models?

What has been your experience with weekending with the family? What size works for a family of 3? I'm thinking stay small for cost, rigging time, and simplicity, but if I go too small we won't be comfortable, and I'll be a lone sailor again. Too big and it'll be too much for us (read: me) to rig and tow frequently. Seasonal mooring is an option, I suppose. I like the idea of being able to run to the marina at the spur of the moment just to toast the sunset from the cockpit. And hey, stay the night if I toast a couple times!

I've heard "go look at as many as you can; you'll know "the one" when you see it", but I still figured I'd post to see if I can get any more input before pulling the trigger on one of these. I'm really just arm-chair sailing this morning and trying to avoid work.

Comments?


Joe

 

[JRT]

My feedback is from my family experience with our 25' O'Day. All of those, except the Mac 26, are going to be very tight and probably not much more stable. I know there is passion for and against a Mac but if family is priority then you should probably consider it instead of the others. Take family with you to look at it too, especially wife.

 

[rgranger]

I have gone up, then back down, then back up with boat size. A lot of my issues were similar to yours. I have four kids so space was a real concern but it was mostly me do in the rigging so too big was a problem as well.

One boat not on your list that I would strongly recommend you take a look at is the Rhodes 22. It is a very large boat for only 22' and it has a very large cockpit that can be turned into a queen sized berth with a cockpit tent feature. It has a fixed keel with a swing dagger. The dagger is not part of the ballast system so easy peasy to lift. I got my first water ballast boat two summers ago, a Hunter 26. It does feel different than weighted keel boats in that the first 5 to 7 degrees of heel comes quick and gives a sense of instability. However they stiffen up quick once you get to about 10 degrees of heel. I think the Mac 26S and 26D both meet your criterion if you find the water ballast an okay feel. They are also very fast boats if you have a good set of sails and can do well in light air. I've attached two short stories I wrote about some adventures in a Mac 22. The Mac 22 has a similar hull design to the Mac 26S and 26D (collectively referred to as the Mac 26C) and they are all decent Ghunkhole boats. I know you said you did not want a swing keel and the Mac22 is a swing keel so it is just to give you an idea of what it might be like. I also attached some pics of a trip I took in the Rhodes 22. The Rhodes was a charter (not my boat).

I think that what you described as your desired use would best be met by either a Mac 26C or a Rhodes 22. I was able to do a 4-day weekend in the Rhodes 22 with six of us on board. It was tight but we made it work.

BTW: I have a Rhodes 22 in my yard now that I am restoring. So... Yes! I did fall in love with the boat.

 

[Joe the Sailor]

My feedback is from my family experience with our 25' O'Day. ....

Nice looking 25!

We've looked at a couple O'Day 25's just for grins, and the wife really likes that size, with the headroom, enclosed head, sinks, etc. That model is on my "seasonal mooring" list, where I'd either have to rent a truck twice a year, or upgrade the tow vehicle for bringing it home for the off season.

I'm leaning toward something more "portable" though, as we have family 3 hrs away, and have trailered the Widgeon there a few times for lake or camping trips. Although, it'd be nice to take some family out once in a while, so maybe I should be looking bigger.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

That Widgeon looks like it is in very nice condition! Um, I think the biggest that you can comfortably trailer is the better option. The MacGregor 26S will make a family most comfortable. The water ballast will be fine for your use and will best accommodate towing. If you get a mooring (which I highly recommend), you only need to worry about towing a few times per year, probably. The price suggests that it should be in very good condition - but would need to be verified for sure. For the sake of your sanity and your family's enjoyment, spend your money on the boat that is in best condition. The expense in time and money for necessary upgrades and improvements on a "bargain" boat far exceeds the upfront cost of a boat in tip top condition. This is almost a universal rule. Many of us learn this the hard way. I wouldn't worry very much about a swing keel model if you check it out thoroughly and find it in good workable condition. Obviously, it is a maintenance concern.
My daughter & BF recently bought a trailerable Yankee Seahorse 24. They put in just a little work on it so far and have it in the water in Montana, enjoying it immensely! Theirs is swing keel.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

As a former sailboat dealer, there are a lot of boats out there. First consideration is the tow vehicle with all weight to include passengers,boat/motor/trailer, tow vehicle, gear and so on. However, may I suggest a ride on a 22 foot or close to that with the entire family to see how it goes. Since you included a water ballast, consider the Hunter water ballast boats too. With that I will recuse myself as you will get various opinions from many as you will get good responses

 

[Joe the Sailor]

...One boat not on your list that I would strongly recommend you take a look at is the Rhodes 22....

A Rhodes 22 caught my eye last fall, and is about at the upper limit of what I'd be comfortable towing. The trailer the seller had was grossly undersized though, which was a deal breaker. (Yes, I could've bought another trailer, but finding one with the capacity and bunks, then fitting the bunks, all in this guy's front yard was more than I wanted to undertake. If I ever had to fit a trailer, I'd want to do it from a sling.)

I agree though, a lot of boat for 22'. I'll keep my eye open.

I've attached two short stories I wrote about some adventures in a Mac 22....

Thank you so much for sharing those! I just read both, and they matched my vision of how we'd spend a weekend in our own boat. The amount of details were great... I've been contemplating what we'd be doing all day, and was afraid the crew would get bored. Sounds like I need to make coastal cruising part of the plan, as you guys did a lot in just a few days time.

We like to play cards also (right now, my son's favorite is "UNO" and we play at least once a day), so a table in the saloon (even if portable) is a must, even if I have to make one myself.

I'm not totally against a weighted swing keel, but would just prefer not to deal with the maintenance and complexity. I've read a couple horror stories that are now permanently stuck in my mind (pivots breaking, keel sticking up or down, removal for maintenance, trunk leaking, winches or cable breaking, etc).

BTW: I have a Rhodes 22 in my yard now that I am restoring. So... Yes! I did fall in love with the boat.

From my own past projects (powerboats, campers, jetskis, motorcycles, bicycles), I find I enjoy the restoration more than actually using the darn thing. When it was time to sell to make room for the next project, I always made a profit though, which at least paid for the hobby.

 

[JRT]

Nice looking 25!

Thanks it was in the best shape in our budget and our first season was pretty good, I went and got a new motor and headsail for this season and started using the practically brand new North Sail Main. My biggest problem for us as a family of 4 is the cockpit really isn't big enough, so my next boat will pay very close attention to cockpit size. Cabin is nice and enclosed head is a must for girls. I think the Rhodes 22 is also a really good one to consider, for me at 5'11" I want stand up cabin space so most likely I'll move up to a 28'-35' after a few years of enjoying my new sails and motor.

 

[leo310]

We had a Mac 26d for 6 years and loved it. We towed it with a Van like yours with no problems. The best thing I liked was that you did not feel the boat when towing as it only weighted 1200lb with out the water. On the water we could beach it as it only needed 18".

 

[JimSails]

we are really enjoying our first season on our Hunter 26, water ballast. We love the double-wide cockpit, 6' bimini that can be up while sailing, walk out rear transom, etc. The Hunter 26 will cost more than the Mac though. Hunters are nice that you can mast rig them without a mast crane at the dock, because it uses a built in lever and pulley to swing the mast up into place. this would be a big value add for trailering a lot. We love having a dock.

The Hunter 26 though has a few negatives:

• water ballast doesn't sail as well
• high foredeck provides a lot of room down below, but running forward is more dangerous and harder to see over while sailing, also more freeboard so get side swept more
• it's a main sail first boat, so you really can't sail with just the Jib, you need the main first, and then add the jib for speed, otherwise you can't point and the wind will just round you up
• it doesn't have travellers for the main or jib sheets so there is a lot less trimming you can do to optimize to the wind

The hunter 26 is a great lazy sailer, but it won't win any races. If you want something that will, check out the S2 7.9. lovely layout, room for 6-8 adults in the cockpit, enclosed head that separates the v-birth from main cabin, etc. although I hear the swing keels can have problems with their age.

a big factor is what % of the time are you going to race, cruise, travel (port to port), trailer, overnight, cook or swim?

and it also will come down to accessories as a big factor especially if you are going to solo-sail:

• furling jib
• lazy jacks
• self tailing winches
• etc.

the Hunter 26 can easily be single handed with a jib furler, no lazy jacks, and no self-tailers, the jib is small so you don't really ever need a winch handle, and don't really need the winches. but if you wrap it on the winch you can pull the line all the way back to the corner and fly the jib and trim the main at the same time.

best thing we did was go to our sailing club when a bunch of people were there, and hop on every boat we could and ask the owners. Then we went for a few sails on boats, and loved the extra wide layout of the hunter 26 to fit our lazy sailing, need an enclosed head, room for friends, dogs and non-sailors.

 

[rgranger]

From my own past projects (powerboats, campers, jetskis, motorcycles, bicycles), I find I enjoy the restoration more than actually using the darn thing. When it was time to sell to make room for the next project, I always made a profit though, which at least paid for the hobby.

Kindred soul!

I have restored two MacGregor V21' a MacGregor V22-2 (the one in the stories I shared) a Coronado 23 (should have kept that boat), a Coronado 25, a Balboa 26', working on the Rhodes and I've made a few upgrades on my H26.

Since you like tinkering... check out this ad

https://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/boa/d/23-ft-sailboat-py-23-with/6645727020.html

Crazy Dave gave good advice. You might want to look at the Catalina water ballast boats ... and Scott T-bird's advice about it being cheaper to buy a boat in good condition than to buy a "bargain" and fix it up is mostly true. The exceptions are those boats where the sails and outboard were kept in doors and are basically new, the trailer is in good shape but the boat is a mess and needs a good cleaning. Often the widow wants the boat gone... it has been sitting under a pine tree for two or more years and a pressure wash later and you are up $1500.

It is not uncommon to find a decent Mac 26S or 26D in the $4,000 range so you may want to widen your search and hit Craigslist in some neighboring states or try sailboatlisting.com. At $6,250 that would have to have brand new sails, new outboard, great trailer, clean as a whistle and otherwise perfect.

There are also A LOT of Catalina 22' boats for sale. It is a swing keel but you can shop until you find one that has a solid keel, good sails, good trailer, reliable O.B. and not break the bank.

Also, the O'Day 22 comes in a fixed keel version...
https://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/boa/d/oday-sailboat-trailer/6619265606.html

https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/73138
https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/73059
https://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/boa/d/com-pac-23-8hp-electric-start/6642040777.html
https://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/boa/d/1977-catalina-22-reduced/6637843673.html

 

[rgranger]

.....

The Hunter 26 though has a few negatives:

• water ballast doesn't sail as well
• high foredeck provides a lot of room down below, but running forward is more dangerous and harder to see over while sailing, also more freeboard so get side swept more
• it's a main sail first boat, so you really can't sail with just the Jib, you need the main first, and then add the jib for speed, otherwise you can't point and the wind will just round you up
• it doesn't have travellers for the main or jib sheets so there is a lot less trimming you can do to optimize to the wind

..

@JimSails

Hmmmm... I've had a slightly different experience with mine..

• At first I thought mine did not sail that well but then I got new sails... now it sails 5.5 kts in a 5kt breeze and I can hit 6.7 before I need to furl. But I agree that the feel of water balast is off-putting at first.
• Agree on the foredeck. It makes the interior HUGE but you need to set up a line to use as a hoist to jump up
• I have no trouble sailing mine on jib alone and I don't have trouble rounding up. In fact I don't see how you can round up on jib alone. It should want to round down if at all.
• Agree on the traveler issue. I also lament the lack of jib cars for the jib sheets.

 

[Jim 5757]

How about the Hunter 23? Short on headroom, but still a nice boat. Correct me if I'm wrong Dave, but I think it weighs about 1200 lb and only draws about 3ft with the wing keel.

 

[JimSails]

@JimSails

Hmmmm... I've had a slightly different experience with mine..

• At first I thought mine did not sail that well but then I got new sails... now it sails 5.5 kts in a 5kt breeze and I can hit 6.7 before I need to furl. But I agree that the feel of water balast is off-putting at first.
• I have no trouble sailing mine on jib alone and I don't have trouble rounding up. In fact I don't see how you can round up on jib alone. It should want to round down if at all.

@rgranger
- yeah i have heard in general they sail well in lower wind. we have not gotten near those speeds! What sails did you end up with?
- blown away from the wind when heading in with the jib only, so we could only sail with the wind and not into it. This was on a lighter wind.

This is my first year captaining, so I will have to bug you more and try some things out

 

[Will Gilmore]

No one mentioned the O'Day Mariner 19 2+2.

The 2+2 stands for two sets of two people to sleep. One double 'V' berth plus two singles half under the cockpit bench seats. There is a sink and a spot for a head under the 'V' berth. 1350 lbs of displacement, large, 7' cockpit for boom tent camping or just hanging out with family. Their class association is strong and well run.

Http://www.usmariner.org
The Mariner 'Orion', has a website with lots of projects, pictures and information about repairs and modifications including a cockpit table. Http://www.mariner1922.com

- Will (Dragonfly)

 

[Joe the Sailor]

Kindred soul!

I have restored two MacGregor V21' a MacGregor V22-2 (the one in the stories I shared) a Coronado 23 (should have kept that boat), a Coronado 25, a Balboa 26', working on the Rhodes and I've made a few upgrades on my H26.

Good Lord, don't tell me that! There are so many boats out there that I feel I have to "save" from being junked, and I'd have them all if I had the room. I might not be married much longer after that, though.....

Since you like tinkering... check out this ad

https://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/boa/d/23-ft-sailboat-py-23-with/6645727020.html

Yep, that one was for sale last year, and I've done some hard thinking about it. Lots of sails is a big plus, and I wouldn't mind painting it and "finishing the project". It's about 4 hours away though (He's in Nashville TN, but posts in ATL C'list), and 2500 lbs boat displacement is about at the limit (or above, with trailer and stowage) of what I can (should) tow with my Kia Sedona. Last thing I want to do is hold up ramp traffic from not being able to climb a wet ramp, all in a mom's grocery-getter minivan. (I still love mine though, they're so versatile!)

Something that big, I'd probably get a 4X4 SUV.

... and Scott T-bird's advice about it being cheaper to buy a boat in good condition than to buy a "bargain" and fix it up is mostly true. The exceptions are those boats where the sails and outboard were kept in doors and are basically new, the trailer is in good shape but the boat is a mess and needs a good cleaning.

Yep, I got my (very dirty) O'Day Widgeon + trailer for a whole $161 on eBay from an elderly veteran. He'd to tow it along with him to different bodies of water as he was transferred from base to base, we exchanged stories for a good hour or two. Sails (3) were kept indoors, and even had the original paperwork and brochure from 1971. I brought two new rims/tires with me, and cleaned/regreased the bearings (in the rain!) before we left on our 3 hour trip home.

At $6,250 that would have to have brand new sails, new outboard, great trailer, clean as a whistle and otherwise perfect.

Here's the ad:
https://asheville.craigslist.org/boa/d/macgregor-26s-1991/6650658263.html

I agree it's high. It's the only one around me that I've found though. There's an eBay auction (current bid: $635) for a 26S, but down in Ft. Lauderdale (10 hr drive). https://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-Macgregor-26S/283066661084

Given a choice, I'd take the boat that wasn't in the Florida sun for the last 25 years. It's all a compromise though.

Also, the O'Day 22 comes in a fixed keel version...
https://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/boa/d/oday-sailboat-trailer/6619265606.html

I know that ad. I've done a lot of research on those. Some say the centerboard version (222) sails so much better than the shoal draft fixed keel (22) that the 22 should be avoided.

Differences between the 22 and 222:
https://forums.sailboatowners.com/i...s-oday-222-which-is-better.96279/#post-530244

I probably wouldn't know the difference and would be happy with either.

That ad's been up since May I believe, so I "May" be talk him down a bit. Pun intended!


Since we're sharing links, here are the other boats in question:
https://asheville.craigslist.org/boa/d/1986-sanibel-17-sailboat/6650507652.html
I looked at a different, dirtier, somewhat neglected Sanibel 18 last week, and was about to make an offer on it. But the last straw was seeing the rudder had snapped a pintle, and the owner used a C-clip to hang it off the transom, and I had to walk away. Needed paint, too. Its "new tires last year" were not even date coded, which means pre-2000. Nice guy, but taking care of his boat was not a main priority for him

https://asheville.craigslist.org/boa/d/1984-slipper-17-sailboat/6650586072.html
The earlier version of the Seaward Fox

https://charlotte.craigslist.org/boa/d/20-day-sailboat-and-trailer/6605793615.html
I like the size and price! Interior liner needs some help, it looks like. Also, 4.5 hrs away, otherwise it'd be in the driveway and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

https://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/boa/d/1978-tangerine-sailboat/6638090616.html
Right down the street from me, I may go look at today. Later became the Renken 18. Can't find much about them except "They don't point worth a #%^*@*" and folks on SailingAnarchy talk as if they're not worth the air space they occupy.

https://atlanta.craigslist.org/sat/boa/d/mfg-19-sailboat/6651628804.html
I talked with the owner today. Boat has two sails, no motor, and two soft spots on deck (in front of bow hatch, and between starboard winch and companionway.) I like that it has a larger cabin (at the expense of cockpit room); at least I think we'd prefer that arrangement. There'd still be room enough for us in the cockpit, but not much else, which is fine.

 

[Jackdaw]

This is a tough length for a weekending family boat. They good ones tend to be either all cockpit or all cabin. One part of the boat is solid, the other not so much. The compromise ones typically end up being too small in both areas.

 

[rgranger]

How about the Hunter 23? Short on headroom, but still a nice boat. Correct me if I'm wrong Dave, but I think it weighs about 1200 lb and only draws about 3ft with the wing keel.

I've been in a H23. They have a surprisingly large amount of cabin space and the walk through transom makes for a great swim platform at anchor.

 

[rgranger]

@rgranger

- blown away from the wind when heading in with the jib only, so we could only sail with the wind and not into it. This was on a lighter wind.

Ah yes, that is called lee helm. Rounding up is weather helm.

I purchased my sails from Bacon Sails out of Annapolis. Ask for Gary.

 

[rgranger]

I like the sanibelle. The tangerine does not inspire me.

Jackdaw has a good point. In the end, you might find the boat you want for the long haul in the Mac 26S or 26D. The one you showed in the link looks very nice. I'd ask for some pics of the trailer, the status of the breaks (are they working now) and some details about the O.B. See if he will take $5,500 for it.

Stay away from the Mac 26M or 26X. Unless what you really want is a floating camp.