PERKINS 4107 RAW WATER PUMP

Discussion in 'Ask All Sailors' started by jssailem, Jul 8, 2018. Add this thread to a FAQ

  1. jssailem

    jssailem

    Joined Oct 22, 2014
    9,292 posts, 4,134 likes
    CAL 35 Cruiser
    US Salem, Moored Port Everett WA
    The engineers made the water pump inaccessible on my 1974 boat. I figure it is about time I replace the impeller. I located the raw water pump. Challenge is that the 4 plate screws are inaccessible. The pump is facing the engine bulkhead. It is about 10 inches from the pump.

    Here are some pictures. Any one with some ideas I would be greatful in helping me attack the problem.

    D5FD48E9-E3F5-4816-B532-00AE04FC880D.jpeg F2C1674A-CC8B-40D2-9F2C-D1316920094A.jpeg A97554F2-189B-46F9-9B4F-4FC4AF8E1F64.jpeg
    You can see the 4 screws on the plate in the first photo. I tried to loosen the straight slot screws with a 90 degree screwdriver. No luck. It was slipping in out of the slot. I was wondering what is the pump like. Can I remove the 4 nuts holding the pump to the engine? What will I find? Likely a shaft. Would there be an index point on the shaft. If I remove the whole pump I can then remove and replace the impeller on my work bench.

    Thanks for your insight.
     


  2. bobtigar

    bobtigar

    Joined Sep 29, 2008
    155 posts, 1 likes
    Morgan Out Island 33
    US Pompano Beach
    Its probably just like my 4-108. The shaft that drives the pump has a center raised portion that fits a slot on the pump. You really cant screw it up. You'll need a new gasket to fit between the pump and the mount. Bob
     


  3. jssailem

    jssailem

    Joined Oct 22, 2014
    9,292 posts, 4,134 likes
    CAL 35 Cruiser
    US Salem, Moored Port Everett WA
    Thanks Bob. Can you take a picture of your pump?
     


  4. JamesG161

    JamesG161

    Joined Feb 14, 2014
    3,656 posts, 1,339 likes
    Hunter 430
    US Waveland, MS
    Don't do it!:badbad::badbad::badbad:

    Use these to remove the cover plate that has the screws.
    First use a penetrating oil.
    https://www.lowes.com/pd/3-IN-ONE-4-oz-Penetrant-Drip-Oil/50370416
    to help release.

    These are a small ratcheting with box end.
    https://www.lowes.com/pd/Kobalt-10-Piece-Ratcheting-Hex-Multi-Bit-Screwdriver-Set/1171067
    or this
    https://www.lowes.com/pd/Stanley-32-Piece-Screwdriver-Bit-Set/1000332301

    The gasket is "onion skin" thin and must be used since the cover plate is part of the impeller seal.

    Perkins makes a replacement screw with a hex head now.
    Jim...
     


  5. dlochner

    dlochner

    Joined Jan 11, 2014
    3,766 posts, 1,749 likes
    Sabre 362
    113 US Fair Haven, NY
    Well, I was about to recommend a Speedseal as a replacement cover, but alas, he has closed his business. Perhaps some enterprising soul will buy his business.

    http://speedseal.com
     


    jviss likes this.
  6. jon hansen

    jon hansen

    Joined May 25, 2012
    2,093 posts, 1,815 likes
    john alden caravelle 42
    us sturgeon bay, wis
    kroil, blaster, ...... your favorite penetrating oil. everything jim writes is how it is for me too. my 107's pump has total access. so right tool for the job big blade flat screw driver that is a perfect fit for the slots. so it's a 90 degree screw driver or create temp access ports for the screw driver head on. the rubber blades of the impeller are stiff. soapy water is the lube i use to push it in. it's firm to yank the old one and it's firm to get the new impeller pushed in. honestly john, the rubber blades do have a expiration date. every time i change this i am glad i did.
    kroil some more.

    me, i might cut a big screw driver down and use a crescent wrench on the shaft.
    ....or dremil tool a hole in the bulkhead then re glass. i build big RC airplanes. i got allot of micro tools that i can open up anything to make ports.

    mine boat is fresh water. the pump cover plate end looks new. the screw slots are clean. the switch out of impeller is easy. i'm just saying the switchout is a reasonable project.
     


  7. dlochner

    dlochner

    Joined Jan 11, 2014
    3,766 posts, 1,749 likes
    Sabre 362
    113 US Fair Haven, NY


    Ward H and jon hansen like this.
  8. jssailem

    jssailem

    Joined Oct 22, 2014
    9,292 posts, 4,134 likes
    CAL 35 Cruiser
    US Salem, Moored Port Everett WA
    Thanks James. I was looking at those tools next. Just tried what I had on hand. It was so tempting to think about dislodging the whole pump. It was the wonder about what was behind door number 2. Thanks.

    Dave, I looked at speedseal 4 or so weeks ago. Then when I sent on line to buy one saw the closed note. Bummer.

    I’ll be calling Perkins today about the hex head option. Fortunately there only 40 minutes away if no traffic otherwise 2 hours. Just love the hiways setup for 1 million cars and 3 million are trying to use them.
     


  9. JamesG161

    JamesG161

    Joined Feb 14, 2014
    3,656 posts, 1,339 likes
    Hunter 430
    US Waveland, MS
    I had a slight drip from mine, which was "tolerated" by my boat's PO. I was told by my trusted son-in-law's, I needed to completely rebuild by Volvo Penta [Perkins] water pump.:badbad:
    You maybe able get that thin gasket from Volvo Penta too.

    After changing out the impeller, the "drip" stopped.
    _______
    I am now removing all the "drip corrosion" and will have my engine drip area restored to @Rich Stidger show room perfect VP engine. He has the same year and model Volvo Penta and guided me on the restoration path.
    ____
    The "pump" is gear driven and the bearings are "pressed" onto the geared shaft. Not a "on my bench" type of fun.
    My engine hours are about 1380 after 19 years of use.:thumbup:
    Jim...
     


  10. jssailem

    jssailem

    Joined Oct 22, 2014
    9,292 posts, 4,134 likes
    CAL 35 Cruiser
    US Salem, Moored Port Everett WA
    My engine hours are “No one knows”
    I’ve recorded 241 hours in the past 3 years. Probably the most use the boat has had in the past 15 years.
    No drips... Plenty of water flowing while running the engine. Just preventative maintenance.
     


  11. Charles Erwin

    Charles Erwin

    Joined Jan 30, 2012
    1,042 posts, 161 likes
    Nor'Sea 27 - "Kiwanda"
    US Portland/Anacortes
    John.

    No meed for long drive. These hex fasteners are plain vanilla stanless screws. Decent hatdware store has em.

    Charles
     


  12. Rich Stidger

    Rich Stidger

    Joined Feb 10, 2004
    2,902 posts, 323 likes
    Hunter 40.5
    US 1997 h40.5 Bristol, RI
    Speedseal out of business? Not good for replacement parts.
     


  13. Sumner

    Sumner

    Joined Jan 31, 2009
    5,248 posts, 288 likes
    Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37
    US Utah's Canyon Country
    [​IMG]
    Yours looks to be the same as our Perkins 4-108. If so ....
    [​IMG]
    ... above is what is behind the pump most likely. I replaced the impeller but then the pump was weeping out of the holes on the side behind the front part of the pump indicating the seal on the pump shaft was bad. I pulled the pump and rebuilt it with a kit from here...

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sherwood-G...ash=item1c48ee4376:g:S6AAAOSwol5Y0Jl-&vxp=mtr

    I have a hydraulic press so it was not hard, but it would be without one. Here is a link to someone doing this without a press....

    http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f54/rebuilding-sherwood-g65-for-perkins-4-108-a-20618.html

    If I didn't have a press I'd probably have someone else do it. Mine looked like the one in the link with the bearings rusted. If yours is not weeping water and those holes are open then you probably just need an impeller kit like I got if you have the same pump ...

    http://marinepumpdirect.com/sherwoo...bdhngmUI1MT4p_EwAIcBIuH3dJPe6-wRoCzagQAvD_BwE

    Good luck with the job and I agree about putting in an access plate. Since our boat sits for long periods between running the engine I replace the impeller every year when we return to the boat. I have a friend that put a rebuilt diesel in his boat and the impeller in the pump was suppose to be new but still disintegrated when they were out and plugged things up. A real mess,

    Sumner
    ====================================================================================
    1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
    Endeavour 37 Mods...
    MacGregor 26-S Mods...
    Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas
     


  14. Ward H

    Ward H

    Joined Nov 7, 2011
    2,336 posts, 541 likes
    Catalina 30 Mk II
    US Barnegat, NJ
    Which means you’ll replace it again. You'll like the access port the next time and really really like it if the empeller needs replacing on one of your cruises.
     


    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
  15. All U Get

    All U Get

    Joined Oct 2, 2008
    2,947 posts, 602 likes
    Pearson/ 530
    US Strafford, NH
    Noooooooooooooooo, I bought speedseal covers for my main engine and generator just so I could easily replace the impellers which I have done so. The cover on the engine is nearly inaccessible so its been working well for me. Somebody please defer your retirement and buy this business.
     


  16. jviss

    jviss

    Joined Feb 5, 2004
    3,125 posts, 412 likes
    Tartan 3800
    US Westport, MA
    I was going to suggest Speedseal, too, as I have one on mine. Other than the "O"-ring, what spares might me needed?
     


  17. dlochner

    dlochner

    Joined Jan 11, 2014
    3,766 posts, 1,749 likes
    Sabre 362
    113 US Fair Haven, NY
    The knobbed screws that have a penchant for inspecting inaccessible areas of your bilge.
     


  18. jviss

    jviss

    Joined Feb 5, 2004
    3,125 posts, 412 likes
    Tartan 3800
    US Westport, MA
    Aha! Yes. When I took possession of my boat, I found that there was an envelope with two knurled screws. When I looked at the impeller cover I noted three knurled and two conventional screws. I'm sure there are two knurled screws in the bilge.
     


  19. jssailem

    jssailem

    Joined Oct 22, 2014
    9,292 posts, 4,134 likes
    CAL 35 Cruiser
    US Salem, Moored Port Everett WA
    Speed seal looked so slick. It was a by your seat business model When the seat left the doors closed.
    Sad.
    Had a good. Sail till the wind got straight on our nose. So fired up the Iron Ginny and we powered the rest of the 18 miles to Poulsbo. Just finished a nice Italian Sicilian Lasgana and great glass of Chianti, well ok 2 glasses. Then we remembered we had pieces of Cherry Chocolate cake waiting on the boat. Found a Gelato shop and picked up a dish of Vanilla. Sitting here enjoying the evening. Some great guitar jazz. And the Ice Cream and Cake. This sailing life is great.
     


    Ward H, jon hansen and jviss like this.
  20. jviss

    jviss

    Joined Feb 5, 2004
    3,125 posts, 412 likes
    Tartan 3800
    US Westport, MA
    Wow, sounds like heaven! (Except 18 miles of motoring!)
     




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