Paint is 33 years old - tape won't stick to it, how do I wrap hatches/windows?

[limbodog]

Hello all,

I was advised in my introduction thread to break my issues out into individual threads, so here's #1 such thread.

My current project is to dry out my vberth so I can sleep in it while my rear cabin is in disrepair. The condensation from the vberth hatch is rather substantial, and it's enough that I don't want to try sleeping under it.

Taking some prior given advice, I've got a fan in there pointed at it, and it does seem to reduce, but not eliminate the problem. The next big piece of advice I got was to build a frame over the hatch with clear plexy/acrylic on top of it. Basically making a window frame over the hatch to make a second heat trap and hopefully get the condensation to occur in the frame, rather than on the bottom of the hatch.

I wanted to start it off with some simple bubble wrap, but I found that tape won't adhere to my fiberglass deck. Like, not even a little bit. The paint is 33 years old and powdery now. Sitting on it in black clothing means i've got white spots like I rolled around on a donut.

So that's making me reconsider the frame idea, because I don't have a way to get the frame to stay in place.

Any thoughts on what to do here? Do I need to buff around it for an hour or two with compoind? Can I 'freshen' the paint (it's kinda cold now for painting)?

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Wet sand the area to remove th chalky paint. Parenthetically, simply circulating air is futile unless it is well ventilated. It sounds like you are recirculating humid air (and mold)

 

[kloudie1]

Try a good fit of shiny foil covered bubble insulation on the inside so that the cold lens doesn't get to touch the moist cabin air.. Fit the bubble stuff very well and tape the perimeter.. Works down here, but where yall are, it gets a bit colder!

 

[thinwater]

What type of hatches? Do they hold bug screens?

You DON'T want foil. That is to keep solar heat out and will only reduce winter daytime heat gain. It will do very nearly nothing to keep warmth in in the winter. Different purpose.

 

[JimInPB]

I'm on board with what Don said about roughing up the old paint to get down to a good surface that something can adhere to. I'm also on board with using bubble wrap as an insulator.

After that, be aware that different types of tape have different adhesive characteristics. As an example, natural rubber based adhesive tapes (ones that smell like rubber) will stick to most things, but only if it is warm when you apply them. Water based acrylic adhesive tapes, turn to goo when they get rained on. Solvent based adhesive tapes give better performance in most situations, but they are much harder to find since the EPA shut down most of the factories that used to make them here in the US. Silicone based adhesive tapes (probably the best) are even harder to find now that the last US plant got shut down a few years ago. I think that the few skids of polyester backed silicone tape that come into the US for the powder coat industry are sourced from Switzerland these days.

You might want to look around a few of the tape manufacturers' websites to find a tape that suits your needs. Possible companies to look at would include 3M, IPG & Sure Tapes. If you could find pre-2005 gaffer's tape, that would be my top pick, but the newer formulations just don't cut it for outdoor use like the old ones did. I have some nasty marks on my deck from the new stuff. It lasted less than 2-weeks.

 

[rgranger]

You don't want to paint over a chalky surface. The paint will just flake off. People are going to disagree withe me but if it were mine, I'd pressure wash the chalk off, let it dry and then buff with an orbital sander with 200 grit. Then pressure wash again. Then prep the surface to paint.

 

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[limbodog]

Ok, so it sounds like no matter what it's going to be a project. I'll probably go with sanding it to remove the top layer of old paint. But that's going to have to wait until a day when it's not raining. So maybe April sometime.

Ah well.

And it also sounds like I really really need to beef up my dehumidifier game. The little guy I have won't suffice.

 

[thinwater]

Ok, so it sounds like no matter what it's going to be a project. I'll probably go with sanding it to remove the top layer of old paint. But that's going to have to wait until a day when it's not raining. So maybe April sometime.

Ah well.

And it also sounds like I really really need to beef up my dehumidifier game. The little guy I have won't suffice.

Can you fit screens in the hatches? If you can, replace them with 1/8" Lexan. That is what I was hinting at.
You can also attach the insulation straight to the lens, like this (Outland Hatch covers). No, it does not insulate the frame, but the added warmth in the center is usually enough to warm the frame enough.

There are also DIY versions described in one of my books (Keeping a Cruising Boat for Peanuts). And of course, you could attach closed cell foam or most anything using self-adhesive Velcro. External canvas covers work well, and you can always stuff some sort of insulation under them, such as bubble wrap.

Many solutions, none of which attach to the paint. The point is you probably do NOT need to insulate the frame so long as you insulate the glazing. I never did, and I lived aboard near zero at times. No condensation (I double glazed the windows on the inside).

 

[JimInPB]

Life Caulk from Boat Life will often stick to wet surfaces. I've applied it underwater before.
https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=2770

It's not my favorite caulk, but if you have to work in the wet, it's an option.

 

[limbodog]

Can you fit screens in the hatches? If you can, replace them with 1/8" Lexan. That is what I was hinting at.
You can also attach the insulation straight to the lens, like this (Outland Hatch covers). No, it does not insulate the frame, but the added warmth in the center is usually enough to warm the frame enough.

There are also DIY versions described in one of my books (Keeping a Cruising Boat for Peanuts). And of course, you could attach closed cell foam or most anything using self-adhesive Velcro. External canvas covers work well, and you can always stuff some sort of insulation under them, such as bubble wrap.

Many solutions, none of which attach to the paint. The point is you probably do NOT need to insulate the frame so long as you insulate the glazing. I never did, and I lived aboard near zero at times. No condensation (I double glazed the windows on the inside).

I'll check out your book, thanks!

So my hatches don't have a specific assembly for putting in screens, but they're certainly deep enough that I could stuff material in there. I'm not quite sure how I'd attach Lexan on the inside, but I suspect I can find a way. Sugru, if nothing else, would probably do just fine. I was thinking I'd try bubble wrap too, maybe both is better. Lexan isn't exactly cheap, but it would really only need to be for two of my hatches (over v-berth and over salon table, I don't care if the others drip a little)

And yeah, it occurred to be a bit later if I build a box frame to go on top of the hatch that open cell pipe foam would make a good seal along the edges to keep the air inside of it and maybe make a warm zone. I suppose I could just put eye-bolts in the frame so I could tie it down. I have no shortage of rope, that's for sure.

I do still hope to get my paint all pretty some day, but this should let me punt that until the warm comes back.

thanks everyone!

 

[jamieFL]

I'd pressure wash the chalk off, let it dry and then buff with an orbital sander with 200 grit.

I think you meant to wet sand with 2000, not 200...not unless you want deep sanding marks. Also, you wet sand, wash, then buff with a wool pad and rubbing compound.

 

[limbodog]

I stuffed my salon hatch, and my two V-berth hatches with bubble wrap, and I haven't seen a drip since! Tho' I'm a little worried that it's just pooling above the wrap and will dump a few cups out when it weighs enough to force its way out, but it seems to be working as intended. Going to stuff a bit more into the 2'x2' hatch to be sure, and then I'll hit up all the other top hatches (including the ones under the benches) because why not?

Thanks for all the suggestions!

 

[limbodog]

Update:
I added a lot more bubble-wrap to the forward hatch which is approx 2'x2'. The other stuffed hatches haven't had a drip since, but that one was still dripping a bit (maybe a floz an hour during the rain, but it's been raining daily so I don't know if that's a leak or condensation) I also taped some puppy-pads (basically diapers for the floor) to the ceiling so that any additional drips would be absorbed rather than fall on me while I'm sleeping.

I think the bubble wrap is probably sufficient for condensation alone. I'll be hitting up the rest of my hatches and portholes over the coming week. And I'm going to have to see if my forward hatch needs a gasket, or a replacement.

 

[DayDreamer41]

Here's what I would attempt, go to one of the big box stores and buy a window insulation kit, you know the ones that have a double back tape and some heat shrink clear plastic sheet. Dry the inside frame real well, possibly wipe with acetone (with the hatch open to ensure good venting) apply the two sided tape to the perimeter of inside hatch frame, apply the heat shrink clear plastic, and apply heat as prescribed to shrink to a tight fitting inside secondary barrier. These work very well and should eliminate the moisture forming on both the frame and glass. I would not tape anything to the deck, that will just make a mess.
You could always put bubble wrap material between the shrink film and the hatch if you think more insulation would be required.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Probably your deck is chalky over years due to lack of maintenance. Try cleaning with a sponge using Comet twice and let dry. Then see if any tape will adhere
Use to do that before compounding a boat