Two old Wilcox Crittenden heads. I think one is a WC "Winner"and the other a WC "Junior". Any information on age, available replacement parts or approximate value would be helpful. Thank you.
Tim
Tim
Old Wilcox Crittenden heads
- Thread starter Sailinsolo27
- Start date
History
I am pretty sure they are out of business and no parts available
so not worth much,I have one of there complete heads with out bowl like new
That I replaced after the dealer replaced on my new 2007 H-36
Nick
I am pretty sure they are out of business and no parts available
so not worth much,I have one of there complete heads with out bowl like new
That I replaced after the dealer replaced on my new 2007 H-36
Nick
The W-C Winner is an all bronze "throne" that was built to last 100 years...introduced in the 1920s or '30s. The Junior was the smaller version of the Imperial, successor to the Winner. The Skipper followed the Imperial and Junior...Thetford bought W-C and folded it because there's no profit in repair parts for toilets built to last 100 years, only in "disposable" models designed and made to be replaced every year or two instead of repaired at all.
Nick is wrong...The Winner and the Imperial Junior sold for $700+ in their day (at least $1500 in today's $$$)...and they're still worth more, even in non-working condition, than most manual toilets in production today. The Groco Model K is the only comparable toilet still made in this country...it has a price tag of $1000. The British Baby Blake http://www.blakes-lavac-taylors.co.uk/blakes_baby.htm is almost $4000 at today's rate of exchange...so yours are definitely worth putting a little money into.
You MAY still be able to get rebuild kts for them--cost around $100 each, but it's unlikely that any parts are still available...but don't rule out machining simple ones. I have the drawings and parts lists for the Winner and the Imperial/Junior...I'll be glad to send them to you if you'd like to email (EMAIL, not PM please!) me.
Nick is wrong...The Winner and the Imperial Junior sold for $700+ in their day (at least $1500 in today's $$$)...and they're still worth more, even in non-working condition, than most manual toilets in production today. The Groco Model K is the only comparable toilet still made in this country...it has a price tag of $1000. The British Baby Blake http://www.blakes-lavac-taylors.co.uk/blakes_baby.htm is almost $4000 at today's rate of exchange...so yours are definitely worth putting a little money into.
You MAY still be able to get rebuild kts for them--cost around $100 each, but it's unlikely that any parts are still available...but don't rule out machining simple ones. I have the drawings and parts lists for the Winner and the Imperial/Junior...I'll be glad to send them to you if you'd like to email (EMAIL, not PM please!) me.
Sorry
I was not happy with the plastic models and guess maybe that's why they are gone and at that price for one of them back in the day and now tuff to get parts is maybe they are gone and raritan and other can sell 2 or 3 for that price.
Been very happy with the Raritan PCII which I changed to the first year after the dealer changed 2 of the WC and really was happy with it but us men needed help and wife likes the new push button just recently changed to the electric
Sea Era and we love it and yes don't really mind the noise.
Glad you are hear to make it right.
Nick
I was not happy with the plastic models and guess maybe that's why they are gone and at that price for one of them back in the day and now tuff to get parts is maybe they are gone and raritan and other can sell 2 or 3 for that price.
Been very happy with the Raritan PCII which I changed to the first year after the dealer changed 2 of the WC and really was happy with it but us men needed help and wife likes the new push button just recently changed to the electric
Sea Era and we love it and yes don't really mind the noise.
Glad you are hear to make it right.
Nick
I thought Peg Hall retired from this forum. Nice to see her contribute. That WC head is probably too old for parts, but Lewis Marine in Ft. Lauderdale has a lot of parts for most heads including Wilcox Crittenden.
I've had good luck keeping my w/c skipper in top shape with parts and advice from these guys..cheers
http://www.marinesan.com/default.asp
http://www.marinesan.com/default.asp
Thanks for the info.
Thank you for the information about the heads Peggy. I didn't think they could be that old. And their cost in the day is surprising. I got them both for free on a boat that a friend of a friend was giving away. Both of the pumps work and I have taken them both apart to clean. All of the gaskets look to be brand new. I really just need bowls. I'd love to keep them but will probably sell them as they might look out of place on my seidelmann 37.
Tim
Thank you for the information about the heads Peggy. I didn't think they could be that old. And their cost in the day is surprising. I got them both for free on a boat that a friend of a friend was giving away. Both of the pumps work and I have taken them both apart to clean. All of the gaskets look to be brand new. I really just need bowls. I'd love to keep them but will probably sell them as they might look out of place on my seidelmann 37.
Tim
Re: Thanks for the info.
If a bowl is all it needs, that's easy...any bowl that has a 4-bolt mounting pattern--which is 95% of bowls--will fit it. I guarantee you it would not look out of place on a Seidelmann 37...a bronze toilet that's on a par with the Groco Model K or the British made "Baby Blake" would create nothing but envy from all sailboat owners. A working W-C Winner is a real FIND! The Groco Model K is the only comparable toilet stilll made in the US, and highly desired by owners who can afford one. So I'd do a little research among boat owners before trading it in for a plastic "disposable" toilet.
And my offer to send you drawings will remain open.
If a bowl is all it needs, that's easy...any bowl that has a 4-bolt mounting pattern--which is 95% of bowls--will fit it. I guarantee you it would not look out of place on a Seidelmann 37...a bronze toilet that's on a par with the Groco Model K or the British made "Baby Blake" would create nothing but envy from all sailboat owners. A working W-C Winner is a real FIND! The Groco Model K is the only comparable toilet stilll made in the US, and highly desired by owners who can afford one. So I'd do a little research among boat owners before trading it in for a plastic "disposable" toilet.
And my offer to send you drawings will remain open.
i have a bowl that i will give him ..has no cracks or chips...just for the shipping cost just pm me if you are intrested....
regards
woody
I can understand a goldfish down the toilet, but GEEZE, Guy... a FERRET ?! How COULD YOU?!? :naughty:
huh... thats a coincidence... I thought i was the only one who flushed ferrets down my head.... with these two bronze heads, maybe I can start some sort of "Ferret Flush" races. Bet big money and buy a bigger boat!
If anyone here is interested, I have two Thetford Corp. Junior/Imperial Maintenance kits, P/N 30758 plus a another partial kit (I used some of the parts). The two complete kits are still in their sealed plastic bags, never opened.
The kits run ~$120 each from places like this:
http://www.reddenmarine.com/thetford-37058-wilcox-1599-junior-imperial-maintenance-kit.html
I'll sell the lot for $100 plus shipping (~2.5 kits or so...). I have a LAVAC now and I'm clearing out some of my old stuff. Happened to run across this thread while looking for Peggy's recommended manufacturer for custom holding tanks.
PM me or send an email to sv dot argyle at gmail dotcom if interested.
Thanks,
Argyle
The kits run ~$120 each from places like this:
http://www.reddenmarine.com/thetford-37058-wilcox-1599-junior-imperial-maintenance-kit.html
I'll sell the lot for $100 plus shipping (~2.5 kits or so...). I have a LAVAC now and I'm clearing out some of my old stuff. Happened to run across this thread while looking for Peggy's recommended manufacturer for custom holding tanks.
PM me or send an email to sv dot argyle at gmail dotcom if interested.
Thanks,
Argyle
So, ive decided to sell the two antique heads i aquired. If anyone is interested in a Bronze Wilcox Crittenden "Winner" model or "Junior" model head pumps, I have one of each for sale. They have new gaskets, but do not have bowls. They have the standard 4" bowl bold pattern.If dissasembled, they will fit into a USPS $15.00 flat rate box. $200 each OBO. For pictures or questions, PM me, relpy the the post or send an email to Sailinsolo27 at Aol dot com.
Tim
Tim
Replacement parts: Thetford
Hi Tim, probably too late for your purposes, but I have a Wilcox Crittenden "Winner", and have been able to put in new pump leathers, sourcing them from Thetford Corp. The flap valves seem to last for decades. Boat built in 1985, Head probably installed then.
Joe
During the rebuild of my mid-1980 vintage Wicox-Crittenden Headmate I discovered the 'water linet housing cover' was cracked and in need of replacement. It's not a standard part carried in most supplier's inventory. I can purchase a whole pup kit (Thetford for about $200) but all I really need is the hosing cover. Does anyone have a parts source that may stock it? The plastic cover is very brittle so repairing it would be problematic.
Replace the toilet with one that's still in production. The average lifespan of a compact manual toilet is 7-9 years (except for Jabsco...theirs is 2-3)....yours is 30 years old...way PAST time to give it a decent burial!
You can save money by ordering just a new pump and base assembly...your bowl will fit all of them. I recommend this one: http://shop.sailboatowners.com/cat.php?52006/Raritan LBA Upgrade for almost any toilet. Top rated manual toilet for 30 years and the only one still made that can last 20 years if you just keep it lubricated and rebuild every 5-6 years.
You can save money by ordering just a new pump and base assembly...your bowl will fit all of them. I recommend this one: http://shop.sailboatowners.com/cat.php?52006/Raritan LBA Upgrade for almost any toilet. Top rated manual toilet for 30 years and the only one still made that can last 20 years if you just keep it lubricated and rebuild every 5-6 years.
There is no glory in restoring the WC HeadMate by spending more on parts than the unit was sold for new in the first place.
Replacing the pump parts is one thing... when I had one the rebuild kit was $80.. back then you could by one new for $129! Even with the rebuild the thing worked poorly. So I simply replaced it with the dreaded Jabsco that I purchased on sale for $139 at WM. Even that inexpensive, poorly rated unit performs an a much higher level that the old HeadMate.
Hoping that Peggy can assist with he approximate age of the head shown in Tim's post. I recently acquired that exact model although the bowl states it is a junior and the spud runs through the sides of the throat of the bowl rather than through the back. The Winner repair kit sold by Defender has the correct size leathers and the two flap gaskets. The spud washers can be acquired at any decent plumbing supply store. They are 3/4 inch urinal gaskets and fit perfectly. The bowl gasket however is undersized but you can make one out of Neoprene gasket material. Simple O rings will replace all the gaskets on the pipe nuts. These heads have a screw down shutoff which eliminates the problem of someone leaving the lever up and sinking your boat. Polishing up the bronze makes it much easier to keep them clean.
If you'll send me a PM that includes your email address I can reply to it with drawings parts lists and photos of all the old W-C bronze "thrones.
Btw, the Junior is just a smaller version of the Imperial...the exploded drawing and parts list is the same for both.
Btw, the Junior is just a smaller version of the Imperial...the exploded drawing and parts list is the same for both.