O’day 27 jib sail help

[Scott T-Bird]

It’s in the slip floating in water. The friend is my brother In law and that’s why he’s doing it for free. I’m not sure what word he used for a circuit box. I am the one that said circuit box. He just said worse case around $300 for parts if total redo. He knows his stuff. It has a main marine plug in spot. There’s also a spot for the battery but does t look like it’s ever had a battery. The boats a 73. I’m not going to rush into sails. DR Marine has a new jib sail for $900 for the O’day 27 from 73. My wife and I will more then likely do that when ready. The seller had a heater running at all times, but that’s only because I later found out he was living in it. Now he’s living in his van.

Whatsit, I assume this boat is for recreation for you. It's definitely and old boat that is going to need a lot of care and upgrades. If the seller was living aboard her, and now lives in a van, I would expect the worst from a maintenance and utility standpoint. I assume that he is barely a step above homelessness. The AC may not function, you may not have it, or possibly he just doesn't have the 30 amp shore power extension to plug into the port on the boat, so possibly he was just running a heater off an extension cord. I'm not sure what you expected from him.
I would keep the boat unplugged until you thoroughly check out the electrics. No offense to your BIL, and if he just acknowledges the distinctions in boat electrics, I'm sure he will do you right as long as you tell him you want everything he does in accordance with ABYC standards. Unless he regularly does boat electrics, he will surely need to read-up. Doing the work for free is one thing if he is a good guy, but surely the equipment and materials are going to cost you if have to make replacements, and you couldn't expect him to buy equipment and just give it to you.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

I said what’s worst case and he said everything needs redone which he highly doubted but if that was the case around $300 worst case.
So back to the mast. If it’s only coming in around the bottom of the mast on the floor when it rains what does that mean?
Thanks for all the advise
Mike

Last winter, I purchased new AC panels for ELCI and branch circuits, and they alone were more than $300. Worst case for everything is much more but probably less than $1,000. If he is thinking that Home Depot supplies are the ticket to $300, he's not thinking the right way. You should investigate your system to understand what is involved and the cost.
It sounds like you will need to buy one of these for $50 to $100 depending upon your length and quality. https://www.westmarine.com/buy/marinco--eel-shorepower-30-amp-cordset--P012998472?recordNum=3
This is just the start. You'll probably soon learn that your initial estimate for time and money for any project is always at least doubled or tripled (or more, much more ).

 

[Whatsit]

Well I wouldn’t dream of making him buy the parts. I’d pay for that. We are very close. Our wives are sisters and best friends so that’s why even if I wanted to pay him for his time he wouldn’t let me. He owned a cruiser for many years. He knows what’s what. I trust him.
Firstly, the seller told me he was a doctor and was always on call delivering babies. I did check and saw he was an obgyn at one time but knew all the right stuff to say. It was t until I went to put my name on the boat slip when the marina woman told me what was what with him. He had gotten kicked out of one marina for living on it and the. Was about to get kicked out of this one if they caught him again. Then the guy that will help me sail said he was living out of his van. The marina lady said he was a doctor and his wife kicked him out for who knows what reason.
Yes will only use It for weekends. Just for fun. Not planning on living in it or anything. It was just a cheap extension cord. So that may be all it was. In the cabin it has a normal coral lightbulb. So hopefully he was just using the heater. He said he was “camping on it” he had a camping msr a lantern and a sleeping bag. Hopefully all is ok. It was too late to do anymore for the day. My wife was starting the flu and was sleeping in the car waiting for me to leave. We all are sick today. Wife kids and myself. So I’m only worrying out loud.
Mike

 

[Davidasailor26]

So back to the mast. If it’s only coming in around the bottom of the mast on the floor when it rains what does that mean?

I presume the mast is stepped on the keel on the 27? Assuming that's the case, then a certain amount of water can run down inside the mast even if everything is fine, and some might come through around the outside surface of it if the boot is compromised. There should be a way for the water to run into the bilge, and a bilge pump to remove the nuisance water that could build up.

Thinking aloud now - If the mast is stepped on the deck then it's a bigger problem. A deck stepped mast shouldn't have any way for water to get into the cabin. If it is then the best case would be that it's travelling along wires into the cabin, and the wires can be resealed. Worse case would be that the mast step is comrpomised and need rebuilding, but I'll defer to others on what that would take.

 

[Whatsit]

Couldn’t I use the wiring already in boat? If the electric doesn’t work the wiring still would wouldn’t it?

 

[justsomeguy]

Couldn’t I use the wiring already in boat? If the electric doesn’t work the wiring still would wouldn’t it?

Depends. If the previous installer used the proper type wire and left enough extra to strip back to good wire, possibly.

 

[Whatsit]

Ok if the seller is telling the truth he said
“Due to corrosion every summer or spring there’s a product at Ace hardware called disolectric that needs to be sprayed on all electrical connection.”
Does this sound correct?

 

[justsomeguy]

Ok if the seller is telling the truth he said
“Due to corrosion every summer or spring there’s a product at Ace hardware called disolectric that needs to be sprayed on all electrical connection.”
Does this sound correct?

"Dielectric" perhaps?

 

[Sunbird22358]

I'm a bit confused as I seem to recall that the O'DAY 27 had a deck-stepped mast, it sounds like yours is stepped through the deck?

 

[Whatsit]

I'm a bit confused as I seem to recall that the O'DAY 27 had a deck-stepped mast, it sounds like yours is stepped through the deck?

What does that mean for me?

 

[justsomeguy]

What does that mean for me?

That would help to eliminate or promote certain avenues for water intrusion.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

The sketch of the O'Day 27 in Sailboatdata pretty clearly indicates that the mast is deck-stepped, not keel-stepped. For Whatsit's benefit, a deck-stepped mast means that the mast rests on a fitting on top of your coach roof. Directly underneath the mast, the sketch shows that you have a bulkhead that helps support the mast and keeps the roof from partially collapsing.
On the other hand, if you had a keel-stepped mast, which is way more common on boats that are 30' long or longer, your mast passes through the coach roof and is supported by the lead keel underneath the floor of your boat. You should be able to look and see instantly, the difference and what you have.
If you have a deck stepped mast, which is what I suppose you have, there are a few ways that water can get into your boat at the mast. Your mast is going to have wiring on the inside for lights, VHF antennae and possibly a wind instrument. The wiring has to pass from the inside of the mast to the inside of the boat. If you have a hole right in the center of the mast-step fitting, like it is on mine, rainwater which gets inside your mast (a problem with every mast) wants to drain through your wire hole, if it isn't properly sealed. I had that problem, it is a very common problem and something that you will want to repair. In my case, I had a block of wood on the underside of the coach roof directly under the mast, which spreads the load to the bulkhead. The wood block concealed the hole and concealed my problem with water infiltration. I had to remove the wood block to see what was happening and find the wires that pass thru the roof.
The other way that the wires pass into the boat is outside the mast. Your mast may have a hole at the bottom where the wires come outside the mast and then turn down thru a sealed hole in the coach roof. This is very common and you should be able to see it immediately if this is what you have. In this case, you also have to maintain that waterproof seal to keep water out, but it is easier to see what is going on. If your wires exit the mast above the coach roof, it is likely that you do not have a hole through the roof directly underneath the mast.
On the other hand, if you have a keel-stepped mast, the coach roof must have a big hole where the mast passes thru and water can pass through the outer surface of the mast directly into the boat if you don't have a water-tight seal around the perimeter of the mast. The other way for water to enter is through the inside of the mast, where the water will simply drain into your bilge.
You should understand that there are multitudes of ways that boats are built. The key to understanding your circumstance is in recognizing how your boat was built. Obviously, the variations aren't typically within the boat model, but differs by manufacturer, models, or years built.

 

[Whatsit]

I’m sure this picture I’m attaching won’t shed anymore light but where I circled is where the water comes from

 

[Scott T-Bird]

I’m sure this picture I’m attaching won’t shed anymore light but where I circled is where the water comes from

That aluminum tube is a compression post underneath your mast. If you don't see any wiring outside your mast anywhere around the mast either inside or outside the boat, I would speculate that the wiring passes thru your coach roof into the compression post. Water that collects on the inside of your mast during rain storms can be draining into the compression post. As it appears that the post terminates on your floor, this is where you find the water. I wonder if you have wiring passing through the floor into the bilge cavity underneath.
Since it is apparent that you have water penetrating through your coach roof, it may be worthwhile to disassemble your compression post sometime when you take the mast down (or temporarily support the coach roof with the mast up) and see if there is any deterioration in the area where water penetrates the roof.

 

[Whatsit]

A friend who’s going to teach me to sail and re rig all new lines said he wants to take the mast down to see what shape it’s in. But more then likely we won’t do that until the spring. Is there any temporary fixes I can do until then?

 

[25yearslater]

Just ran across this thread as I don't visit very often. First you have a deck stepped mast. The wiring passes through the coach roof and mast step and attaches by a plug that is inside the mast. The wires pass between the cabin liner and the coach roof back to the electrical panel. Do not under any circumstance remove the compression post with the mast stepped. You have bigger problems than the puddle on the cabin sole (floor). In your photo there is a pronounced stain on your port bulkhead below the upper shroud chainplate and its' teak backer plate. The Starboard side probably has the same issue. Below the sole there is a wood block that is fiberglassed in place and supports the compression post. I have detailed that issue in And so it begins. The leak you are seeing is coming from one of several places. One: the portlights are leaking. Two: the chainplates are leaking. Three: the hull deck joint is leaking. This will run down the bulkheads and onto the sole. Discolored wood is your friend as you can follow the discoloration to the point of origin. The strip of teak at the bottom of the bulkhead is also discolored indicating rot in that area. Use your thumbnail to probe the bulkheads looking for areas of rot. Don't be surprised to find they have degraded substantially. The plus side is this is an easy boat to work on and for a fair amount of money you can have a remarkably enjoyable vessel. Let's start here.

 

[Whatsit]

Thanks Joe
It’s clear water that looks like you just spilled water on the floor. It’s not discolored to my memory. If it was which I can’t remember exactly it may of been a slight yellowish but I’m thinking it looked clear

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Just ran across this thread as I don't visit very often. First you have a deck stepped mast. The wiring passes through the coach roof and mast step and attaches by a plug that is inside the mast. The wires pass between the cabin liner and the coach roof back to the electrical panel. Do not under any circumstance remove the compression post with the mast stepped. You have bigger problems than the puddle on the cabin sole (floor). In your photo there is a pronounced stain on your port bulkhead below the upper shroud chainplate and its' teak backer plate.

With all due respect to your expertise with this boat, don't you think it is a little alarmist to suggest the color of the wood suggests serious problems? I zoomed in on the photo, and I can't say that I see anything that suggests the discoloration that you seem to see. True, the chainplates are a common source of water infiltration. So is the hull to deck joint. But I wouldn't expect the water to accumulate around the compression post. I've had leaky portlights ... the water never collected on the floor in the area where that compression post terminates (it did make cushions on the settees wet). Isn't it more likely that the source of water at the base of the compression post is the wire passage underneath the mast?
Whatsit, are those bulheads varnished or oiled? Can you tell? I varnished my teak plywood and just a small bit of water at the chainplates caused a tremendous stain that is FAR more pronounced than any discoloration I see in your photo (perhaps varnishing was the wrong thing to do ). The wood can be slightly stained without causing any degradation of its structural properties. Of course, you should inspect it if you have any question.

 

[Richard19068]

With all due respect to your expertise with this boat, don't you think it is a little alarmist to suggest the color of the wood suggests serious problems? I zoomed in on the photo, and I can't say that I see anything that suggests the discoloration that you seem to see. True, the chainplates are a common source of water infiltration. So is the hull to deck joint. But I wouldn't expect the water to accumulate around the compression post. I've had leaky portlights ... the water never collected on the floor in the area where that compression post terminates (it did make cushions on the settees wet). Isn't it more likely that the source of water at the base of the compression post is the wire passage underneath the mast?
Whatsit, are those bulheads varnished or oiled? Can you tell? I varnished my teak plywood and just a small bit of water at the chainplates caused a tremendous stain that is FAR more pronounced than any discoloration I see in your photo (perhaps varnishing was the wrong thing to do ). The wood can be slightly stained without causing any degradation of its structural properties. Of course, you should inspect it if you have any question.

I don't think he was being alarmist. If I was a novice and had that stain on the bulkhead below the chainplate I would appreciate someone having pointed out that it was a possible serious issue and to check it out.

 

[25yearslater]

Not being alarmist Scott. Unfortunately the wood block under the sole was very poorly designed and sealed. It wicks water like a sponge from the bilge. The tell tale is compression of the sole around the compression post base which allows the water to pool there. Quite honestly I would be surprised if any 27 of that era didn't have the issue it is such an awful setup. Funny thing is I left one of the portlights open in my head when I left the boat. Down came the rain and guess where the water went? Ran to the bulkhead and down to the sole right in the same area. The discoloration indicates standing water at the bottom of the bulkhead and the trail down the chainplate indicates a steady leak. Sadly most O'days have shot bulkheads. It really isn't a catastrophe but should be addressed. The block I refer to is located just forward of the hatch in the sole. It extends forward under the head. A little probing with an awl or icepick will reveal whether this is indeed the case.