Not a 110 jib......

[Dennis Kitchen]

Last winter I ordered and built a 110 jib for my Hunter 23.5 from Sailrite. I went with heavier (6.4 oz) cloth than OEM as I like to sail in 20+. It sets like a sheet of iron and performs well, even sailing jib alone now, something it didn't do well before

. The only real surprise was that now my leech hits my lower shrouds and curls the sail when I am close hauled in lighter air.
So, I plugged the numbers into an overlap calculator and discovered my new sail ACTUALLY IS a 110 and the OEM is actually 105 to 106%
Hunter specs. the boat with a 110 OEM and I am fairly sure the old sail I replaced was original.
Any other 23.5ers out there replaced your sails and found similar issue? Anyone else find manufacturers to have "fudged" the numbers?

 

[rgranger]

Nice looking sail Dennis.....

 

[Dennis Kitchen]

Nice looking sail Dennis.....

Well thanks! Actually what you're seeing most of is the old sail laying on top of the new one in order to compare size and profile. Of course I did this after the fact ( ie sailing season) to determine the difference. I was preparing to discuss what happened with the designer of the sail but decided first to run his numbers with the overlap calculator an "Viol-la", discovered the old sail was NOT a 110%
Dennis

 

[Tony_Furst]

Dennis, I have a newer jib on my 23.5 from Typhoon Sails in Columbus however mine is on a furler rather than hanked on. I haven't noticed the problem you describe, I don't have the original sail to compare to as it was gone when I got the boat. I do know that mine does come back almost to the shrouds but does not hit them.

 

[rgranger]

....The only real surprise was that now my leech hits my lower shrouds and curls the sail when I am close hauled in lighter air.

Arg Now you can rig a sprit.....

 

[Dennis Kitchen]

Tony,
My new sail is on a furler so I just roll up one turn if I need to sheet really tight. Otherwise off the wind I have more sail now so I think I'm good with it. BTW, what did Typoon spec your foot dimension as?

 

[Tony_Furst]

Dennis,
I'm not sure and right now the boat is under 6" of snow so I can't get to my sails easily.

 

[caverun]

If it helps, the foot on my original '98 240 hank-on jib was 10' 1" pulled tight. It was listed as a 110%. The 240 has the same "J" dimension as the 23.5. Leech=21' 2", luff= 23' 10". I've since gotten a furling jib, and sold the original. I can measure the new furling jib if you like- it is a Doyle sail made for the newer Hunter 25 that replaced the 240.
Can you post a link to the calculator you used?

 

[Benny17441]

The specs on these boats were not very precise and always subject to change to accommodate small manufacturing discrepancies. It is always best to get actual measurements from your own boat when getting replacement components.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Dennis;
Thank you sir for advising as I never investigated that. You are correct that essentially the 110 should be overlapping the shrouds and I was caught off guard. However, the sails on the 23.5 that I got did overlap the shrouds. I wonder if and when Hunter changed vendors, a new vendor shortened the sail to save monies (cheat?) for what should have been a true 110 jib lapper.
You mentioned sailing in 20 plus winds. Of course I would disagree but there is one thing. You have the experience and you are one who will be safe sailing like a true sailor. I applaud your comments and know from reading your posts that you are a heck of a good sailor..

 

[Dennis Kitchen]

@ Caverun,
Thanks! I see that the 23.5 and 240 still have the same "I" and "J" dimensions. Your head sail at 10' 1" compares more closely to my original Doyle sail at 10' 3".

https://sailingfortuitous.com/apps/jibcalc.html is the link to the overlap calculator I used. While they make no warranty on their process, it completely agrees with my sail design. The foot on my new sail measures 10' 8".

 

[Dennis Kitchen]

@ Benny,
I took accurate measurements of the stemhead, mast, and turning block positions and sent a drawing to the designer. It changed the specs. only minutely from his stock program figures for the boat.

 

[Dennis Kitchen]

@ CD,
Thanks! I was hoping for your input. I bought this boat in 2003 and it's a 1995 model so it's possible that the sails had been changed but if so used ones were put on as they were in good but used condition. Or possible that the sail had been re-cut to not overlap.
Of course it makes perfect sense that if the sail is cut to overlap by very much then it will hit the shrouds at some point, even with the hollow in the leech accounted for. It's my first sail boat so I just accepted things "as they were" with the understanding that it was spec.ed to have a 110. So I'm glad to hear that your experience normally does show a true 110.
Boat truly does perform better now. And sailing downwind I sheet it to the chain plate U-bolt and it gives a better lead angle; lower and outside the shrouds. I can't wait to replace my blown-out main!
Now that the jib is on a furler I can roll up one turn and keep it off the shrouds or just let it curl the leech. Can't tell yet much difference in performance between either choice. I sail mainly on a lake so often I am "pinching" to avoid another tack and still clear terrain. This requires being tightly sheeted. Other times it's no problem.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Thank you for letting us know. You are more than welcome to contact me at any time. Been restoring a pool inside of course during this winter but today the bloomin contractor had no help. guess what I had to do but not being paid for my work for a friend of mine who is paying the contractoer. I will finish the pool so I can start my train layout.

 

[Jackdaw]

Remember, sails with the same LP are not the same! In fact that can be a huge variance is the shape and profile of the leach and foot. depending mostly how much hollow the sail has, how high the clew is, and where the LP actually is. Remember that can be anywhere along the back of the sail. How how high the tack is also factors. This is most important on non-overlapping jibs where they might touch the rig if the sail is designed wrong.

I've had 2 108%s for my boat. One fit perfectly, the other touched the lower diagonals. That one went back.

 

[Ted]

Remember, sails with the same LP are the same!

I think you meant to say that sails with the same LP are NOT the same.

 

[Jackdaw]

I think you meant to say that sails with the same LP are NOT the same.

Thanks yes, I edited that quickly and removed the word 'not ' inadvertently !

 

[Stu Jackson]

Remember, sails with the same LP are not the same!

For sure:

 

[Dennis Kitchen]

@Jackdaw , @Stu,
Good info you have posted. If you look at the photo in my post with the old sail laying on on the new, the luffs are lined up and the foots are lined up demonstrating the same angle from tack to clue. I did have the luff lengthened but as you can see the leeches are nearly parallel. So the ratio of luff to leech are similar. In my case at least it's clear that my old sail was not a 110. Interestingly enough, I read a forum a few years ago where the poster stated that the 23.5 came with a 105% jib. I concluded he was in error after checking my factory brochure. I guess now I know where he got his info.