I have posed this question on the C350 net but I wanted to bring it up here as well. We just took delivery on our new 350 and found that there is no seacock on the thru hull fitting that empties the holding tank overboard. We are very concerned about the safety of this issue. My question is to owners of other Cataina models. Do you have any thru hull openings that do not have a seacock on them. Have you had issues with this, especially in areas that get very cold and with boats that stay in the water over the winter. Am i missing something here and am overly concerned?
- Status
C350 Seacocks
Vicky, I'm not sure I understand, you wrote: "there is no seacock on the thru hull fitting that empties the holding tank overboard." Do you mean the one that comes out of the macerator? And not the deck level emptying one? If it's from the macerator, there should be a valve between the macerator pump and the through hull. Every thru hull needs a valve. What did the other C350 folks say? We'd be interested in those answers. Stu
Vicky, I'm not sure I understand, you wrote: "there is no seacock on the thru hull fitting that empties the holding tank overboard." Do you mean the one that comes out of the macerator? And not the deck level emptying one? If it's from the macerator, there should be a valve between the macerator pump and the through hull. Every thru hull needs a valve. What did the other C350 folks say? We'd be interested in those answers. Stu
Didn"t notice
Can't say I noticed not having a thru hull shut off for the waste tank discharge. I can see how that may be a problem when leaving the boat in thru the winter, which is our 04-05 plan. Did you pose this question to Catalina via e-mail? I too would be very interested in the answer.
Can't say I noticed not having a thru hull shut off for the waste tank discharge. I can see how that may be a problem when leaving the boat in thru the winter, which is our 04-05 plan. Did you pose this question to Catalina via e-mail? I too would be very interested in the answer.
location of opening
Stu, the location of the hull opening is on a 350. The 350 has a vertical holding tank located in the head area that uses gravity to empty. Immediately underneath the holding tank there is a valve that opens and closes to allow waste to flow overboard. Below the valve is approximatly 6-8 inches of white hose that is glassed in at the bottom where the hose reaches the hull. There is no seacock at this bottom opening where the hose meets the hull. We sent a general e-mail to Catalina yesterday. I will post Catalina's response when we receive it. Based upon the few responses we have had to our original inquiry on the 350 sailnet e-mail list, this seems to be a standard installation on this boat. One owner responded that this hose has already cracked and needs replacement. We plan to pursue this issue with Catalina because we believe this to be a significant safety issue and want to understand what Catalina's reason was for why they did not put a seacock here. The only possible explination we can think of might be that Catalina feels the air pressure would prevent water from outside filling the hose and therefore freezing would not be an issue. I personally would not risk that.
Stu, the location of the hull opening is on a 350. The 350 has a vertical holding tank located in the head area that uses gravity to empty. Immediately underneath the holding tank there is a valve that opens and closes to allow waste to flow overboard. Below the valve is approximatly 6-8 inches of white hose that is glassed in at the bottom where the hose reaches the hull. There is no seacock at this bottom opening where the hose meets the hull. We sent a general e-mail to Catalina yesterday. I will post Catalina's response when we receive it. Based upon the few responses we have had to our original inquiry on the 350 sailnet e-mail list, this seems to be a standard installation on this boat. One owner responded that this hose has already cracked and needs replacement. We plan to pursue this issue with Catalina because we believe this to be a significant safety issue and want to understand what Catalina's reason was for why they did not put a seacock here. The only possible explination we can think of might be that Catalina feels the air pressure would prevent water from outside filling the hose and therefore freezing would not be an issue. I personally would not risk that.
It seems irresponsible
for Catalina to provide overboard discharge without a macerator as well as to not protect the watertight integrity of the hull with a shutoff. We have been pleased with the quality of our Catalina and have found no safety issues. Our Catalina 36 has shutoffs at all through hull fittings that are located below the waterline including the macerator. This was also true of the 1978 Sun Yacht that we owned before purchasing the C-36.
for Catalina to provide overboard discharge without a macerator as well as to not protect the watertight integrity of the hull with a shutoff. We have been pleased with the quality of our Catalina and have found no safety issues. Our Catalina 36 has shutoffs at all through hull fittings that are located below the waterline including the macerator. This was also true of the 1978 Sun Yacht that we owned before purchasing the C-36.
Macerator
To clarify the macerator. This boat comes standard with an electric macerating head. The macerator is located inside the head. Waste travels from the bowl of the toilet thru the macerator,into a hose and then finally into the holding tank. The macerator is NOT downline of the holding tank between the tank and the overboard thruhull. The only thing between the holding tank and the exterior hull is a valve that is immediately below the holding tank. Then the 6 inches of hose. Then the hull of the boat. This not our first Catalina and we have been very pleased in the past with the attention to safety from Catalina. That is why we are interested to here from them on this subject.
To clarify the macerator. This boat comes standard with an electric macerating head. The macerator is located inside the head. Waste travels from the bowl of the toilet thru the macerator,into a hose and then finally into the holding tank. The macerator is NOT downline of the holding tank between the tank and the overboard thruhull. The only thing between the holding tank and the exterior hull is a valve that is immediately below the holding tank. Then the 6 inches of hose. Then the hull of the boat. This not our first Catalina and we have been very pleased in the past with the attention to safety from Catalina. That is why we are interested to here from them on this subject.
Understood
Vicky Your explanation is very clear. However anything gets there to the thru hull, the condition you describe is that there is six inches of hose between the thru hull and the first valve. Therefore, that six inches is not protected at all. Should the hose fail, you sink. I recommend you call Gerry Douglas at Catalina and talk to him about it. Also, suggest you get in touch with Blair DeHuff in Tahoe (he uses this board and most likely your other sources) and find out what luck he's had in speaking to Gerry on his vibration issue. He may be helpful in getting you in touch with Gerry. You have a reasonable question to what appears to be a big potential problem. And you have enough C350 owners to make a difference. Stu
Vicky Your explanation is very clear. However anything gets there to the thru hull, the condition you describe is that there is six inches of hose between the thru hull and the first valve. Therefore, that six inches is not protected at all. Should the hose fail, you sink. I recommend you call Gerry Douglas at Catalina and talk to him about it. Also, suggest you get in touch with Blair DeHuff in Tahoe (he uses this board and most likely your other sources) and find out what luck he's had in speaking to Gerry on his vibration issue. He may be helpful in getting you in touch with Gerry. You have a reasonable question to what appears to be a big potential problem. And you have enough C350 owners to make a difference. Stu
Contact Gerry Douglas
I have been in contact with Gerry Douglas recently re the vibration issue. Catalina is still pondering the problem, which is a difficult one due to the differing symptoms expressed by various C350 owners. Many of the boats have the problem to one extent or another under different conditions. Many C350's don't have the problem at all. Gerry responds to both phone calls (Catalina's general phone number is 818-884-7700) and email(gerard@catalinayachts.com). He has been very open and responsive. As regards the waste tank thru hull issue, it is a very good point which had not occurred to me. Plastic pipe and hoses are certainly vulnerable to cracking. Although I have not had any problems (yet) in sub-zero temps at Lake Tahoe, it could happen. My C350 has been in the water for only one winter. The next time I get to speak with Jerry Douglas I'll ask him about this subject, unless someone else in this forum happens to contact him about it first and reports back on the issue.
I have been in contact with Gerry Douglas recently re the vibration issue. Catalina is still pondering the problem, which is a difficult one due to the differing symptoms expressed by various C350 owners. Many of the boats have the problem to one extent or another under different conditions. Many C350's don't have the problem at all. Gerry responds to both phone calls (Catalina's general phone number is 818-884-7700) and email(gerard@catalinayachts.com). He has been very open and responsive. As regards the waste tank thru hull issue, it is a very good point which had not occurred to me. Plastic pipe and hoses are certainly vulnerable to cracking. Although I have not had any problems (yet) in sub-zero temps at Lake Tahoe, it could happen. My C350 has been in the water for only one winter. The next time I get to speak with Jerry Douglas I'll ask him about this subject, unless someone else in this forum happens to contact him about it first and reports back on the issue.
spoke to technical support
I spoke to Ed in Catalina Technical support about my concern. He was helpful and patiently explained to me why there was no seacock in the head for the holding tank discharge. The information I received from him is as follows: "There is a tube glassed into the hull that is long enough to go above the waterline. The tube connects to a hose which attaches to the discharge valve at the base of the holding tank. There should be no concern with the hose cracking during a freeze in the winter because the hose is flexible enough to withstand the expansion of frozen liquid. The holding tank should have anti-freeze added during the winter to prevent it or the valve from freezing." I certainly am not a technical expert so I cannot comment on whether or not the hose or tube used by Catalina is capable of handling freezing and thawing without cracking and only time would tell how many years these would last before degrading. We always put anti freeze in our holding tank during the winter so I am not concerned about the tank freezing. Since our boat is not in the water yet, I cannot comment on exactly how high the tube goes in relation to the waterline. If the air/water pressure was such that no outside water would rise above the tube/waterline and into the hose or up to the valve, then freezing of the hose or valve would not be an issue. When we first notice this, the boat was out of the water and the sun was shining on this side of the boat. The tube/hose was very illuminated by the sunlight and to be honest, simply didn't look that thick, but perhaps that was a optical illusion because the hose/tube was white. At that time, we did not see where the tube ended and the hose began. We will have to check this again. Our broker last week told us this story about a boat he knew. The owner, who wanted to sail during the winter, did not add anti freeze to his engine. Instead he opened the strainer which was above the waterline. (this allowed expanding water to exit via the strainer). When it snowed, the boat settled two inches lower into the water, strainer was now below the waterline, boat filled up and sank. The point I am trying to make is that in the event that the water line is lowered in our vessel so that the tube is no longer above the waterline, we are relying on the integrity of a hose to keep our boat afloat. In all cases, we are still relying on the integrity of the tube to prevent our boats from sinking. Using the rational that a hose is quite capable of handling freezing and thawing or any other damage for that matter, then what would be the point of any seacock where the hose rises above the waterline, such as a sink? Instead of seacocks, all valves would be placed immediately next to the sink since it is certainly cheaper to put a valve there than install a seacock. Catalina obviously feels this set up is safe and they are not concerned with the tube or hose breaking during the a winter freeze or the degredation of the tube/hose over time. We love our new Catalina and we have owned a previous Catalina and have been very satisfied with our boats. I didn't want to make a big issue about this, we were just floored when we saw there was no seacock in an opening below the waterline and originally thought maybe it was just our boat. Perhaps my ignorance is preventing me from seeing how this set up is satisfactory. I guess we are just from the old school and as such we close all seacocks when we leave our boat whether for a weekend or a winter. We simply are not comfortable with any hole that is in our boat that is not regulated by a seacock. We will pull the boat this winter and add a seacock. Should be real fun getting out the glassed in tube!!! Vicky Lohman #221
I spoke to Ed in Catalina Technical support about my concern. He was helpful and patiently explained to me why there was no seacock in the head for the holding tank discharge. The information I received from him is as follows: "There is a tube glassed into the hull that is long enough to go above the waterline. The tube connects to a hose which attaches to the discharge valve at the base of the holding tank. There should be no concern with the hose cracking during a freeze in the winter because the hose is flexible enough to withstand the expansion of frozen liquid. The holding tank should have anti-freeze added during the winter to prevent it or the valve from freezing." I certainly am not a technical expert so I cannot comment on whether or not the hose or tube used by Catalina is capable of handling freezing and thawing without cracking and only time would tell how many years these would last before degrading. We always put anti freeze in our holding tank during the winter so I am not concerned about the tank freezing. Since our boat is not in the water yet, I cannot comment on exactly how high the tube goes in relation to the waterline. If the air/water pressure was such that no outside water would rise above the tube/waterline and into the hose or up to the valve, then freezing of the hose or valve would not be an issue. When we first notice this, the boat was out of the water and the sun was shining on this side of the boat. The tube/hose was very illuminated by the sunlight and to be honest, simply didn't look that thick, but perhaps that was a optical illusion because the hose/tube was white. At that time, we did not see where the tube ended and the hose began. We will have to check this again. Our broker last week told us this story about a boat he knew. The owner, who wanted to sail during the winter, did not add anti freeze to his engine. Instead he opened the strainer which was above the waterline. (this allowed expanding water to exit via the strainer). When it snowed, the boat settled two inches lower into the water, strainer was now below the waterline, boat filled up and sank. The point I am trying to make is that in the event that the water line is lowered in our vessel so that the tube is no longer above the waterline, we are relying on the integrity of a hose to keep our boat afloat. In all cases, we are still relying on the integrity of the tube to prevent our boats from sinking. Using the rational that a hose is quite capable of handling freezing and thawing or any other damage for that matter, then what would be the point of any seacock where the hose rises above the waterline, such as a sink? Instead of seacocks, all valves would be placed immediately next to the sink since it is certainly cheaper to put a valve there than install a seacock. Catalina obviously feels this set up is safe and they are not concerned with the tube or hose breaking during the a winter freeze or the degredation of the tube/hose over time. We love our new Catalina and we have owned a previous Catalina and have been very satisfied with our boats. I didn't want to make a big issue about this, we were just floored when we saw there was no seacock in an opening below the waterline and originally thought maybe it was just our boat. Perhaps my ignorance is preventing me from seeing how this set up is satisfactory. I guess we are just from the old school and as such we close all seacocks when we leave our boat whether for a weekend or a winter. We simply are not comfortable with any hole that is in our boat that is not regulated by a seacock. We will pull the boat this winter and add a seacock. Should be real fun getting out the glassed in tube!!! Vicky Lohman #221
Vicky -- all very well thought out and valid points
I think you nailed it on the head, in most cases this configuration would be fine. But with just a little different engineering they could have just added the belts and suspenders. I don't know the location or configuration but maybe they thought it wasn't easy enough to get at the thru-hull. Or they didn't want to add 2 valves. One at the thru-hull and one at the bottom of the tank. The reason they don't want to **not** have one at the bottom of the holding tank is that it would mean you would have your raw sewage **constantly** in the Rubber Hose. And sooner or later, even with the best hose, the sewage smell would leak through -- maybe they thought it best to keep that at a minimum. Only solution is 2 valves. ps Shouldn't be to hard to get a new thru-hull in there. Just cut out the existing glassed in tube with a hack saw or a dremmel grinding wheel and then use the same or a slightly bigger hole saw over the existing hole of the thru hull. Good luck and take pictures -- I'm sure other people will want to do the same thing you are doing here.
I think you nailed it on the head, in most cases this configuration would be fine. But with just a little different engineering they could have just added the belts and suspenders. I don't know the location or configuration but maybe they thought it wasn't easy enough to get at the thru-hull. Or they didn't want to add 2 valves. One at the thru-hull and one at the bottom of the tank. The reason they don't want to **not** have one at the bottom of the holding tank is that it would mean you would have your raw sewage **constantly** in the Rubber Hose. And sooner or later, even with the best hose, the sewage smell would leak through -- maybe they thought it best to keep that at a minimum. Only solution is 2 valves. ps Shouldn't be to hard to get a new thru-hull in there. Just cut out the existing glassed in tube with a hack saw or a dremmel grinding wheel and then use the same or a slightly bigger hole saw over the existing hole of the thru hull. Good luck and take pictures -- I'm sure other people will want to do the same thing you are doing here.
Lots of possibilities for trouble
Many years ago, a rat found it’s way onto my Catalina 25’. It entered through the clamshell vent into the cockpit locker. While there, it chewed a hole in one of the cockpit drain hoses. Then it went into the rest of the boat where it chewed the corners of a few cushions and a few more hoses. One was the clear plastic drain from the sink in the head. There through hull wasn’t closed. I could see the water just a fraction of an inch below the hole. When the boat rocked in the slip a few drops would spill into the boat. An inch lower in either hose and the boat would have sank. I always close all seacocks when they are not being used. I also have heavy wire mesh (hardware cloth) blocking all vents. I’ve never had a repeat of this problem and have never heard of it happening to anyone else in the marina. S/V Anodyne Cataline 36'
Many years ago, a rat found it’s way onto my Catalina 25’. It entered through the clamshell vent into the cockpit locker. While there, it chewed a hole in one of the cockpit drain hoses. Then it went into the rest of the boat where it chewed the corners of a few cushions and a few more hoses. One was the clear plastic drain from the sink in the head. There through hull wasn’t closed. I could see the water just a fraction of an inch below the hole. When the boat rocked in the slip a few drops would spill into the boat. An inch lower in either hose and the boat would have sank. I always close all seacocks when they are not being used. I also have heavy wire mesh (hardware cloth) blocking all vents. I’ve never had a repeat of this problem and have never heard of it happening to anyone else in the marina. S/V Anodyne Cataline 36'
Hoses DO crack
Vicky: congratulations and thank you for noticing something that has obviously escaped the attention of the rest of us 350 owners. I, too, am very concerned about the safety issue and I do not find the response from Ed at technical support to be very reassuring. I offer the following as my reason why. We purchased our 350 in Feb 2003 (hull #34). About a month or two later, we were doing some dockside stuff when my wife noticed the bilge light had been on for quite awhile. I lifted the floorboards and found the bilge pump furiously pumping bilge water and the pump was warm to the touch, indicating it had indeed been running awhile. My first instinct was an ingress of water somewhere, but a thorough search revealed everything intact and dry. Yet the pump continued to run. closer inspection revealed that the white plastic hose which ran from the bilge pump to the side discharge had developed a crack--which grew to a sizeable slit--immediately past the point where it attached to the pump. This point in the hose had a sharp, 90 degree bend, and I suspect this created a weak point. Thus, the bilge pump would siphon up the water in the bilge (from our AC condensate collection, etc) and pump it into the hose but, instead of going overboard, it would shoot right back into the bilge, creating a continuous cycle. I simply put my finger over the hole until the pump shut off, then duct taped it until I could get the dealer to replace it. When they did, they wisely redirected it so there was not a sharp bend. I know the holding tank hose is a straight line, but my point is the same. With time, this hose will wear down and develop cracks. I would like to join the ranks on this issue and ask Catalina to refit all their 350's with sea-cocks at the through-hull point for this tube. Like you, we thoroughly enjoy our 350 and feel it is a safely designed and built boat and that Catalina stands on its record for building safe boats. As such, I hope that they will listen to the overwhelming comments on this problem and remedy the defect. Frank Mott "Forever Young" C350 (#34) Kemah, TX
Vicky: congratulations and thank you for noticing something that has obviously escaped the attention of the rest of us 350 owners. I, too, am very concerned about the safety issue and I do not find the response from Ed at technical support to be very reassuring. I offer the following as my reason why. We purchased our 350 in Feb 2003 (hull #34). About a month or two later, we were doing some dockside stuff when my wife noticed the bilge light had been on for quite awhile. I lifted the floorboards and found the bilge pump furiously pumping bilge water and the pump was warm to the touch, indicating it had indeed been running awhile. My first instinct was an ingress of water somewhere, but a thorough search revealed everything intact and dry. Yet the pump continued to run. closer inspection revealed that the white plastic hose which ran from the bilge pump to the side discharge had developed a crack--which grew to a sizeable slit--immediately past the point where it attached to the pump. This point in the hose had a sharp, 90 degree bend, and I suspect this created a weak point. Thus, the bilge pump would siphon up the water in the bilge (from our AC condensate collection, etc) and pump it into the hose but, instead of going overboard, it would shoot right back into the bilge, creating a continuous cycle. I simply put my finger over the hole until the pump shut off, then duct taped it until I could get the dealer to replace it. When they did, they wisely redirected it so there was not a sharp bend. I know the holding tank hose is a straight line, but my point is the same. With time, this hose will wear down and develop cracks. I would like to join the ranks on this issue and ask Catalina to refit all their 350's with sea-cocks at the through-hull point for this tube. Like you, we thoroughly enjoy our 350 and feel it is a safely designed and built boat and that Catalina stands on its record for building safe boats. As such, I hope that they will listen to the overwhelming comments on this problem and remedy the defect. Frank Mott "Forever Young" C350 (#34) Kemah, TX
Me too
Vicky We enjoy our 350 very much and are happy we bought it. If we had to do it over again, we would buy it again. That said, this issue you raise causes me concern. In your discussions with Catalina, please convey our collective concern with the design of the holding tank discharge hose. If you are collecting names and hull numbers to present to Catalina, please feel free to add our name and boat. By the by, thank you very much for bringing this to our attention. Sincerely, Jack and Sylvia McDonald "Friendship" C350, #80
Vicky We enjoy our 350 very much and are happy we bought it. If we had to do it over again, we would buy it again. That said, this issue you raise causes me concern. In your discussions with Catalina, please convey our collective concern with the design of the holding tank discharge hose. If you are collecting names and hull numbers to present to Catalina, please feel free to add our name and boat. By the by, thank you very much for bringing this to our attention. Sincerely, Jack and Sylvia McDonald "Friendship" C350, #80
Read somewhere
Seems to me I read somewhere that any thru hull that was within 4" of or below the water line was to have a thru hull shut-off.
Seems to me I read somewhere that any thru hull that was within 4" of or below the water line was to have a thru hull shut-off.
Canadian Regulations
Canadian Ministry of Transport regulations read as follows: . "All openings and penetrations in watertight or weathertight structures should be kept to a minimum and fitted with efficient means of closure that are of equivalent strength to the structure in which they are located and such that they will maintain their watertight or weathertight integrity." Neither the flexible hose nor the swimming pool type valve used on the holding tank apear to fulfil the strength requirement.
Canadian Ministry of Transport regulations read as follows: . "All openings and penetrations in watertight or weathertight structures should be kept to a minimum and fitted with efficient means of closure that are of equivalent strength to the structure in which they are located and such that they will maintain their watertight or weathertight integrity." Neither the flexible hose nor the swimming pool type valve used on the holding tank apear to fulfil the strength requirement.
C387 has the same configuration
My C387 has the same setup. A valve at the bottom of the tank, and nothing else. I would be happy to help convince Catalina to install a seacock at the point of exit.
My C387 has the same setup. A valve at the bottom of the tank, and nothing else. I would be happy to help convince Catalina to install a seacock at the point of exit.
and remedy the defect. ... !?!
Frank, You C350 folks have reasonable concerns. Approaching it this way will go about nowhere, and only serves to set up a confrontational agenda. Why not just take it lightly, go find some facts and work together? They used to call the port list a defect. They used to call the 2 inch HX a defect. They used to call the alternator bracket a defect. Every time someone started with the "defect" cr*p, the factory stuck its lawyers in the way for simple defense, and little got done. The port list is still there. We learned to live with it. The alternator bracket kit cost $55 and was well worth it, and wasn't Catalina's fault anyway. The 2 HX worked just fine, until it got improved. C'mon, work on it together and get it fixed, and let everyone who owns a C350 (or C387) know so they can benefit from your astute observations. The amount of effort spent in discussing it here (Vicky, pardon me for a moment), could well have paid for everyone getting new hose and a valve. Has ANYONE figured out what it would cost, PER BOAT, to do the fix? One Marelon valve, four hose clamps, and a few feet of hose. Do the numbers, folks. Usually the effort required to get someone else to fix a questionable issue is a lot less than just doing it. It's questionable because the factory has already told you so, and they would rarely "back down." And they do the same on C387s. Would you blame them? Is it "right?" Maybe not. Are boats perfect? Aw, c'mon. You might want to seriously consider that all the time you may be "stewing" over this (admittedly new issue), those of you with boats in the water have the potential to go vertically the wrong way, and those of you hauled for the winter better darn well check that hose's integrity before you splash in. Why not just fix it and keep the bills, just in case... Blair's got a different issue with his and others vibration and the factory seems to be helping. Good luck, you all have GREAT boats. Stu Disclaimer: I do not represent the factory, CY or any of its........
Frank, You C350 folks have reasonable concerns. Approaching it this way will go about nowhere, and only serves to set up a confrontational agenda. Why not just take it lightly, go find some facts and work together? They used to call the port list a defect. They used to call the 2 inch HX a defect. They used to call the alternator bracket a defect. Every time someone started with the "defect" cr*p, the factory stuck its lawyers in the way for simple defense, and little got done. The port list is still there. We learned to live with it. The alternator bracket kit cost $55 and was well worth it, and wasn't Catalina's fault anyway. The 2 HX worked just fine, until it got improved. C'mon, work on it together and get it fixed, and let everyone who owns a C350 (or C387) know so they can benefit from your astute observations. The amount of effort spent in discussing it here (Vicky, pardon me for a moment), could well have paid for everyone getting new hose and a valve. Has ANYONE figured out what it would cost, PER BOAT, to do the fix? One Marelon valve, four hose clamps, and a few feet of hose. Do the numbers, folks. Usually the effort required to get someone else to fix a questionable issue is a lot less than just doing it. It's questionable because the factory has already told you so, and they would rarely "back down." And they do the same on C387s. Would you blame them? Is it "right?" Maybe not. Are boats perfect? Aw, c'mon. You might want to seriously consider that all the time you may be "stewing" over this (admittedly new issue), those of you with boats in the water have the potential to go vertically the wrong way, and those of you hauled for the winter better darn well check that hose's integrity before you splash in. Why not just fix it and keep the bills, just in case... Blair's got a different issue with his and others vibration and the factory seems to be helping. Good luck, you all have GREAT boats. Stu Disclaimer: I do not represent the factory, CY or any of its........
Confrontational?
Stu,I do not take offense at your comments. However, I do not believe that it is "confrontational" to discuss opinions and options on a topic that involves a potential safety issue, in an open forum such as this. I do not belive Catalina's installation of this head can be considered a "defect" since, as far as I can tell, it violates no manditory or industry standards in the United States and does not involve an error in installation or construction or faulty materials or workmanship. I am surprized, in this day and age, that Catalina choose to not install a seacock on a thru hull opening that is below the waterline. It is a shame, but I believe this type of installation will not help Catalina's reputation. Shame on us for not noticing the installation when we purchased our boat in October. Remember, "buyer, beware'. If we had, I would have had Catalina add the seacock during manufature of our boat, even knowing we would pay for the installation. As I stated before, we already are planning to pull the boat this winter and add the seacock. In my opinion, the cost of this installation is not worth the time and trouble of pursing further with Catalina even if the installation could be considered a "defect". What other owners choose to do is up to them. Vicky #221
Stu,I do not take offense at your comments. However, I do not believe that it is "confrontational" to discuss opinions and options on a topic that involves a potential safety issue, in an open forum such as this. I do not belive Catalina's installation of this head can be considered a "defect" since, as far as I can tell, it violates no manditory or industry standards in the United States and does not involve an error in installation or construction or faulty materials or workmanship. I am surprized, in this day and age, that Catalina choose to not install a seacock on a thru hull opening that is below the waterline. It is a shame, but I believe this type of installation will not help Catalina's reputation. Shame on us for not noticing the installation when we purchased our boat in October. Remember, "buyer, beware'. If we had, I would have had Catalina add the seacock during manufature of our boat, even knowing we would pay for the installation. As I stated before, we already are planning to pull the boat this winter and add the seacock. In my opinion, the cost of this installation is not worth the time and trouble of pursing further with Catalina even if the installation could be considered a "defect". What other owners choose to do is up to them. Vicky #221
Not confront.......
Vicky, That's why I said pardon me to you specifically in my earlier post. You are right, of course. And I agree. Bummer, but maybe you all can get together, but we seem to agree that it's not likely. You're right, it was CY's "choice" to do it that way. Could work forever, or as someone earlier said, could go tomorrow or last for our grandkids. Good luck, and thanks again for making the larger community aware of an important issue. Best, Stu
Vicky, That's why I said pardon me to you specifically in my earlier post. You are right, of course. And I agree. Bummer, but maybe you all can get together, but we seem to agree that it's not likely. You're right, it was CY's "choice" to do it that way. Could work forever, or as someone earlier said, could go tomorrow or last for our grandkids. Good luck, and thanks again for making the larger community aware of an important issue. Best, Stu
I'm a bit confused!
I'm not quite sure how or why anyone would fiberglass a 'hose' to a hull. Polyester just doesn't adhere that well to the stuff they use to make hoses. On the other hand, if Catalina has glassed in a fiberglass tube, I don't understand the hullaballoo. We all already have two of these in the stern without seacocks. The rudder tube and the shaft log. The shaft log has nothing but a rubber hose and four clamps well below the waterline to prevent water intrusion. The rudder tube usually ends well above the waterline and may or may not have some kind of a cheesy seal depending on the manufacturer. We don't think anything about them except for periodic maintenance. I've never read a word concerning freezing of these items. By the way, all fiberglass is transucent. You can see light through your hull anywhere the gel-coat is thin. Is this holding tank outlet really a hose as stated? Or is it a fiberglass tube with the concern arising from a new implementation of an old technology? Just curious,
I'm not quite sure how or why anyone would fiberglass a 'hose' to a hull. Polyester just doesn't adhere that well to the stuff they use to make hoses. On the other hand, if Catalina has glassed in a fiberglass tube, I don't understand the hullaballoo. We all already have two of these in the stern without seacocks. The rudder tube and the shaft log. The shaft log has nothing but a rubber hose and four clamps well below the waterline to prevent water intrusion. The rudder tube usually ends well above the waterline and may or may not have some kind of a cheesy seal depending on the manufacturer. We don't think anything about them except for periodic maintenance. I've never read a word concerning freezing of these items. By the way, all fiberglass is transucent. You can see light through your hull anywhere the gel-coat is thin. Is this holding tank outlet really a hose as stated? Or is it a fiberglass tube with the concern arising from a new implementation of an old technology? Just curious,
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