News flash: cool fast boats sell.

Oct 26, 2008
6,043
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
That's funny, I wasn't aware that Island Packet was having sales problems.
Actually, I think they have been having problems. Didn't Hake Marine acquire them about a year ago as IP was going under? Probably a last ditch effort at survival. I think part of the emphasis of JD's post is that traditional yacht building is not doing so well for lack of innovation and excitement. I would have to agree that the boat builders have to evolve and create markets to stay fresh.
 
Oct 22, 2014
20,992
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Unfortunately. He died last year from brain cancer. Lived life fully to the end. Went up with him to the river 60 days before he went into the hospital. Carried his kayak for him as the chemo and surgeries had sapped his strength. He took one last ride in the class 3 waters. A sailor his whole life. Lived and loved being on the water. I was fortunate to meet him.
 
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RussC

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Sep 11, 2015
1,578
Merit 22- Oregon lakes
Looks like fun. Had a friend 70 plus years young who did that on the rivers of Washington. He would teach the young bucks how to ride the rapids and survive. He said it was no fun unless they were at stage 4PLUS.
During the 70s I was into big whitewater kayaking also. our philosophy was "if kayaks were made to carry they would have handles" . ours didn't have handles. Now at 67 I sail with one arm resting on the lifeline, the other somewhere near the tiller, and a nice padded seat to rest my weary butt on. I'll race your sailboat for a wile, but don't be surprised if I vear off course to check out a flock of wood ducks..... No... a high dollar race boat probably isn't in my future plans. ;)
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,043
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Unfortunately. He died last year from brain cancer. Lived life fully to the end. Went up with him to the river 60 days before he went into the hospital. Carried his kayak for him as the chemo and surgeries had sapped his strength. He took one last ride in the class 3 waters. A sailor his whole life. Lived and loved being on the water. I was fortunate to meet him.
Well, that is sad. We all come to the end of our days. Hopefully, on our own terms, but that isn't always the case, sadly.
 
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Nov 6, 2006
9,884
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
My story from the "Way-Back" machine.. I bought my 34 when it was 6 years old in 1991.. I paid pretty much what a new 34 was stickered at but got roller furling, an autopilot, a refrigeration conversion, a much better stove, upgraded ground tackle, spinnaker gear and spinnaker.. I paid no sales tax because used boats in Louisiana are exempt.. contrast that with a new boat purchase today.. Boat is +$100K autopilot and stuff about $4000 more, and then sales tax .. $+10,000..
 
Nov 9, 2012
2,500
Oday 192 Lake Nockamixon
Those of us of a certain age, remember when this happened in the US. The combination of new "maintenance free" fiberglass technology, high inflation, and high fuel prices, spurred an explosion of small to medium boat builders in the US and Canada: O'Day, Hunter, Pearson, Catalina, Caliber, Cal, Pacific Seacraft, Sabre, Tartan, S2, Islander, San Juan, the list goes on.

Because of high inflation (5+%) the depreciation was offset by inflation. It was not uncommon to sell a used boat for close to the original purchase price.

Eventually the market became saturated, inflation and fuel prices eased, and the Feds instituted a Luxury Tax on boats over $100K, and money got tight for boat builders. The late 80s was a financially disastrous time for the sailboat industry with only a few survivors.

The industry also figured out that the margins in smaller 30' and under boats was small while the margin for larger more expensive boats was large. Production moved towards the larger more expensive boats, leaving those who might be able to afford a new 30 footer in the used boat market.

And those pesky GRF boats just don't have the common decency to rot away like the old wooden boats.
I think that there is another factor going on here. Median income is not rising. Neo-liberal policies are systematically strangling the middle class and creating wealth inequality for the past 40 years. (The term neo-liberal has nothing to do with liberals, look up the term if you aren't sure what I mean.) So called "middle class" people may not have the disposable income to make 18-25' sailboats a viable market. Due to widening wealth inequality, boats companies are finding that the 50' market is the only market with the disposable income to sustain the market.

Also, the nuclear family has shifted from doing activities together in the 50's and 60's, to parents shuttling children around for children's activities like sports. People have less time for recreation due to working a lot more, so they will tend towards power boats due to the lack of perceived skill involved in using the boat. Also, there's the excitement factor of wind in you hair that powerboats can give (thought Jackdaw's point about easy to plane sailboats mitigates that somewhat.)

I love my sailboat, and wish I could afford a new one. I wish there was something in the 24' performance oriented market I could afford. I also bemoan the loss of the 14-16' runabout powerboat market, which I believe was killed off by personal watercraft, and some of the changes in family activities.

Crap, now I feel old and curmudgeonly. Oh, well.
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
I would be curious to know the demographics of the people buying the "cool, fast boats". I can look around at the buying habits here in the NY metro area and there is certainly no shortage of young, wealthy, adrenaline junky-type folks around here.
The other part of the equation ... are these boats essentially disposable after the initial buyer is through with it? Do racers/performance oriented sailors tend to ride their boats hard and "put away wet"? Will there be a secondary market for these boats or will secondary markets shun them for various reasons, such as lacking comfort, style, durability, etc. If there is no secondary market, how long will the trend last?
The average Pogo owner is a couple in their 50's. Some a few years younger, some a few older. Very close to the demos here. BTW a Pogo is built to a very high standard, many cross oceans on their initial voyage. And not exactly with a lack of creature comforts.

Also, while NOT a raceboat it would have had a 2nd fastest handicap on this list Shemandr posted, much faster than the J/111 in 2nd and just slower then the Full on race Open 40 in 1st that it is based on. But sailing into the mid teens by a couple.

http://www.regattanetwork.com/clubmgmt/regatta_uploads/14877/WB24ScratchSheet92617.pdf

Pogo12.50-interiors-andreas-lindlahr_(1).jpg
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,321
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
I think that there is another factor going on here. Median income is not rising. Neo-liberal policies are systematically strangling the middle class and creating wealth inequality for the past 40 years. (The term neo-liberal has nothing to do with liberals, look up the term if you aren't sure what I mean.) So called "middle class" people may not have the disposable income to make 18-25' sailboats a viable market. Due to widening wealth inequality, boats companies are finding that the 50' market is the only market with the disposable income to sustain the market.
Brian, good point. However, the use of the term "neoliberal" is not in common use in everyday language and may well generate a negative response due to being misinterpreted and by those who do not take the time to look up the academic definition. The kind of policies that are neoliberal (in the academic sense) seem to be more associated with libertarian or conservative viewpoints than progressive or liberal (in the current political sense).

However, what ever the cause or label assigned, the fact remains that middle class income has indeed stagnated over the past 20 or more years. That hasn't helped sailing.
 
Sep 25, 2016
88
Oday 22 Lake Arthur
The average Pogo owner is a couple in their 50's. Some a few years younger, some a few older. Very close to the demos here. BTW a Pogo is built to a very high standard, many cross oceans on their initial voyage. And not exactly with a lack of creature comforts.

Also, while NOT a raceboat it would have had a 2nd fastest handicap on this list Shemandr posted, much faster than the J/111 in 2nd and just slower then the Full on race Open 40 in 1st that it is based on. But sailing into the mid teens by a couple.

http://www.regattanetwork.com/clubmgmt/regatta_uploads/14877/WB24ScratchSheet92617.pdf

View attachment 141448
My God, that is ugly. Looks like a Motel 6.
accor.jpg
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,321
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
The average Pogo owner is a couple in their 50's. Some a few years younger, some a few older. Very close to the demos here. BTW a Pogo is built to a very high standard, many cross oceans on their initial voyage. And not exactly with a lack of creature comforts.

Also, while NOT a raceboat it would have had a 2nd fastest handicap on this list Shemandr posted, much faster than the J/111 in 2nd and just slower then the Full on race Open 40 in 1st that it is based on. But sailing into the mid teens by a couple.

http://www.regattanetwork.com/clubmgmt/regatta_uploads/14877/WB24ScratchSheet92617.pdf

View attachment 141448
I like the conveniently located floor beams to make it easier to trip and fall. On the other hand, they will contain spilled liquids.
 
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Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
My God, that is ugly. Looks like a Motel 6.
Of course you are entitled to your opinion. But two things.

Are you in the market? If you are, then your not liking it carries great weight.

This 'Motel 6' interior is what's inside boats with a multi-year backlog for delivery. So it must be appealing to people that answered 'yes' to the first question.
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
I like the conveniently located floor beams to make it easier to trip and fall. On the other hand, they will contain spilled liquids.
That is part of the grid structure that gives the boat its strength, while maintaining a low profile. I can tell you from personal experience you learn to step over them the first day aboard, and in 1000's of miles I've never tripped once.
 
Sep 25, 2016
88
Oday 22 Lake Arthur
Of course you are entitled to your opinion. But two things.

Are you in the market? If you are, then your not liking it carries great weight.

This 'Motel 6' interior is what's inside boats with a multi-year backlog for delivery. So it must be appealing to people that answered 'yes' to the first question.
No I'm not in the market.

For one thing, I don't have the means.

Even if I was made of money, however, my tastes run to not trying to look ostentatious, and also failing.

If I was made of money, this is the interior I'd want.
 
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weinie

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Sep 6, 2010
1,297
Jeanneau 349 port washington, ny
I'm gonna say that IP sails as well as it looks ^

:puke:
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
No I'm not in the market.

For one thing, I don't have the means.

Even if I was made of money, however, my tastes run to not trying to look ostentatious, and also failing.

If I was made of money, this is the interior I'd want.
I agree, that IP interior looks lovely.

What year is that, a 2017? A 2102? A 2007??

See my point? You can buy old one that looks (and performs) new for 1/2 the cost.

THAT is what is is killing IP (and other builders) as we speak. They need to sell NEW boats. You lusting after and then maybe buying an old one does very little for them.