News flash: cool fast boats sell.

JRT · Oct 20, 2017

I'm a new sailboat owner and have enjoyed my old O'Day 25 a lot this season but I like new, cool and reliable so I started looking a bit. What I have observed is that the USA new boats look exactly like their old ones, sometimes 30+ year old design. A fellow dock mate has a really nice Precision and I thought that might be a possibility since they are still in business.

So Sailboat data says been making them since 1986, specs look identical:
http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?CLASS_ID=163

Precision says I can get a new 23 with every factory option for $47,704
http://www.precisionboatworks.com/boats/p23/index.php

Or I can get a 2010,all the options and then some for $29,500
http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/66647

Or a 1987 in TN for $7,500
http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/69090

The 1987 in TN (close enough to pick up and trailer home) at $7,500 could be a steal if it is solid shape. Sails noted as original and motor could be questionable so maybe $2-3k to address that and I'm at 1/4 new price.

I'd love some new boat smell, but why bother if there is no real difference. Now If we had some of these cool French boats hear I could consider the loan and payments, that stern dingy is the bomb.

dlochner · Oct 20, 2017

The Precision boats were designed by Jim Taylor, Precision: Small, Fast, and Fun by Jim Taylor Yacht Designs

He has designed some nice boats that sail well, including the Sabre 362.

JRacer · Oct 20, 2017

Boy, you could put a lot of beer in the back end of that 32! ;-)

Stu Jackson · Oct 20, 2017

John Tubb said:
I'd love some new boat smell,

Easy to do: buy a can of fiberglass or new car smell spray.

O'Day 25 is a nice boat. We had our Catalina 25 for 13 years before we bought our then-12 year old C34. No hurry, mate.

sailnoproblem · Oct 21, 2017

Stu Jackson said:
Easy to do: buy a can of fiberglass or new car smell spray.

O'Day 25 is a nice boat. We had our Catalina 25 for 13 years before we bought our then-12 year old C34. No hurry, mate.

Stu, I loved your reply on new boat smell. I couldn't stop laughing. Truth be told you are right.

Stu Jackson · Oct 21, 2017

Jackdaw said:
just looking to understand

I think it may simply be the demographics and interests of this particular group of skippers. I offer that most of us are here to learn, and many are DIY "types" who want to "get their hands dirty" working on their boats. I've been on this forum for many years, and except for a few (one or two?) new C355 skippers and Hello Below with his new Hunter e33, I simply don't recall many "I have my brand new boat" threads. When we bought our then-12 year old boat in 1998, the price difference between that boat and new was 2:1! My boat's now 30 years old, those are now a mere 20!

And of the "folks" we know here over the years, I don't recall too many of us changing boats. Just the crowd we got. I don't "do" Sailnet anymore, could be different over there. Maybe the folks who have new boats don't need website forums, although the C355 Google Group is active and sharing, like here.

Davidasailor26 · Oct 21, 2017

Jackdaw said:
is an undercurrent here, with some people actively rejecting the notion of people (themselves or even others) buying new boats. I’m curious why this is, I never see people trying to talk others out of buying new cars.

I don’t know about that. We recently bought a new car, and my wife told me a lot of the people in her office said it was wasting money to buy new vs used. I think it’s just human nature for people who are happy with their purchase decisions to try to convince others of them, and to think that one size fits all. I think we see the same things in threads about boat manufacturers, anchors, and roller furling mains.

On top of that, maybe the auto industry does a better job of modernizing and advertising their products, so a higher percentage of people see the benefit of buying new cars than new boats. Car commercials are everywhere, talking about the newest safety features, fuel economy, styling, and whatever else. Boat ads seem to be more of the same - a guy with an attractive woman and maybe a family jumping off a swim platform. Not really a reason to buy new over used.

danstanford · Oct 21, 2017

[QUOTE=" just looking to understand.[/QUOTE]
Could it be that many of us are justifying our decision not to buy new boats ourselves? Ultimately I could afford a new boat but at the cost of many other things we really want as we prepare for our retirement. Once retired, I am sure a new boat will be out of our reach.
Another possibility is that we have all read endless threads about blue water/coastal boats and new "Ikea" boats versus better built older boats and quite likely most of us could not form a really valid opinion about the desirability of new boats based on their quality. I know that my industry is full of armchair experts all too quick to offer "truth" about quality to anyone who will listen. We spend lots of time educating clients and ultimately making them comfortable enough to make a decision. Like most of the information out there these days, first we have to understand the role of the author before we can interpret the information being provided.
At the end of the day, I don't care what anyone (other than my wife) thinks of the decisions I make and therefore feel no need to justify them to others. I know lots of people who feel just the opposite....

Davidasailor26 · Oct 21, 2017

Stu Jackson said:
Maybe the folks who have new boats don't need website forums

That’s an interesting point. Anecdotally, a new Beneteau owner came into the slip next to us this year. He doesn’t seem to be much of the “do it yourself” type, has the marina do all of his maintenance, etc. He’s probably not coming here for advice on how to fix or even improve things, so he’s not going to be around to talk about the merits of new boat buying. While that’s only one anecdote, I wouldn’t be surprised if, in general, those who have the money to pay the “new boat premium” also pay to have everything else done, so we don’t see their perspective.

dlochner · Oct 21, 2017

It is all about economics and personal budgets.

The first boat I bought was purchased new. The used market was thin for the boat I wanted and I had a windfall from an insurance settlement. It was also relatively inexpensive at $15K (in 1984). We also had the money to make the loan payments.

17 years later I bought my second boat. I had a budget and knew what I wanted in a boat, i.e., 30 feet, comfortable cruising, aesthetically pleasing, good performance. A new boat was just not in the picture as I couldn't afford the payments.

The same with the boat I now have. Actually never thought I could afford a 362, even a used one. Until I found an older boat that had needed some love, well, lots of love. Even buying that boat was a stretch. There is no way that I could ever afford a $300K new boat and any new boat I could afford would not suit my needs. So the used market is where I shopped.

Cars are a bit different. A couple of years ago we bought a new Honda in the high $20's we expect it to last about 10 years that is the most I've ever spent on a car. Usually I buy Ford Rangers every 6 or 7 years, again a fairly inexpensive vehicle. Cars are almost a necessity, boats, not so much.

Would I like a brand new 36' comfortable cruising boat that had good sailing characteristics? (yes, Jack you and I will define good sailing characteristics differently.) You bet. Is it in the budget, no way. The Senior Citizen Discounts aren't large enough and neither are the pension COLAs.

Daveinet · Oct 21, 2017

I don't think there is any other industry that can compare to the sailboat industry, not even power boats. the biggest difference is what deteriorates. Cars rust. Engines wear out. Major components fail. Even with RVs, old RVs tend to leak, appliances rust out, the cost of rebuild far exceeds the value. Even with power boats, the cockpit is not waterproof. For many boats, the structure is still wood. If neglected, the structure rots. Only the more modern larger power boats resist water intrusion. The engine is a major component, and once it fails, the cost exceeds the value. Since the older engines didn't stand up to the abuse of running full throttle all the time, old boats are rarely worth the effort.
Sailboats are sooo much simpler. An outboard motor, even though expensive, can be replaced by anyone. Sails wear out, but still move the boat. Most day sailors, the rigging has never seen much stress, so it is still functional. The electronics are minimal, and easily, and cheaply replaced. I've seen DIYers replace rigging with steel cable from Lowes, and use tarps for sails. Sure it is not going to sail great, but it still is fun for the guy who did it themselves. How can new boats compete with that.

Stu Jackson · Oct 21, 2017

Daveinet said:
An outboard motor, even though expensive, can be replaced by anyone.

True. And for "bigger" mid-30s sized boats, which many of us have, diesel engines last far longer than inboard gas engines. A friend of mine with twin gas inboards on his Sea Ray 34, same year as my 1986 boat, just sold it, because one of the engines died, even though he took good care of them. He loved that boat. My diesel has 3400 engine hours and, knock on wood, runs great, in spite of me being the maintenance guy!

LeeandRick · Oct 21, 2017

I've been reading this thread for 21 days and may not remember if someone touched on "The American Dream". In my 20s I was much closer to the European culture of today, a small place to live. All that was needed was a place to sleep and make breakfast before work. A small apartment near the marina and airport in a sketchy part of town. It was great. I had an airplane, a new sailboat, and a 2 seat car. Then along comes someone into my life that was more traditional and wanted the "Dream". Before I knew it I'm in the American way of life buying larger and larger housing units with more and more wasted space and working endlessly to keep up with the... Well now I'm happy to have my old used boat. It reminds me of my 20s when I bought the same model and year boat I currently have, brand new.

jssailem · Oct 21, 2017

Jackdaw said:
trying to talk others out of buying new cars

What do you mean? Oh You live in the Midwest where they salt the roads to permit winter driving. After 7 years the underbody is gone.
My wife is from the Midwest.. She inherited this trait of buying a new car... I try to talk her out of it all the time. Usually requires an alternate way of spending money, like a trip or a car... Went to Italy this past spring. Another year of no car payments. Yeah...

sailnoproblem · Oct 21, 2017

Here is my two cents again. I believe the majority of folks on the site are not in the market for new boats. Again that is my opinion, and I believe I am not alone.
Living in the north east and purchasing a new boat for $300K to me is insane. If you are able to pay cash that is one thing. But having those payments 12 months a year when you only have use at best 8 months seems like a bad financial move.
If sailing is your passion or should I say life then go for it. For me it makes no sense, as you can tell by my craft.
I hope no one takes offence to my post, this is just my opinion.

Stu Jackson · Oct 21, 2017

jack,

What John said was this:

John Tubb said:
I'd love some new boat smell, but why bother if there is no real difference.

You said:

Jackdaw said:
why there is such a reaction to ANOTHER person’s desired to buy, or to make the point over and over in a thread about buying new boats? The one that got me was stu reccomending someone just get a can of ‘new boat smell’, instead of looking for what might better suit them. I know it’s in jest but the thought train speaks volumes.

Hardly. That is NOT what I was saying at all. John said he LIKED his boat. Post #381 on this very page. Yes, in jest, but you missed the mark completely on this one, my friend. And I said it because I had a 25 foot boat, a 1981 Catalina 25, and actually did just that. Didn't last long though.