That’s good, but what hasn’t changed is that when you pull your boat. Check the hubs every hour or so. It’s just one more thing to do on the road.
New Owner with absolutely no experience sailing
- Thread starter JAYNV
- Start date
Hench-forth known as "The Admiral". The rule is: If the Admiral isn't happy....
Jay,
Congrats on the boat. It looks real nice, from the pictures. Macgregor made a number of models with different features. All 25's had a "swing keel" which weighs 6 or700 LBS. It is solid steel. Your boat does not have water ballast. There is a largish bolt which acts as a hinge. and a smaller "lock" bolt, which keep the keel down. Macgregors are great boats, once they are set up properly. Unfortunatly, most Mac owners are beginners, and never get set up properly. Get it rigged, and take an experienced sailor, better yet a sail maker, to check the rig tune.On my boat, the back stay was too long, and the mast canted forward, instead of raking backwards. This made it difficult to tack. I had an early Venture 22. On my boat, the foils ( rudder and keel) were barely shaped hunks of wood and steel. This led to a LOT of leeway, and interesting steering. You can easily reshape the keel and rudder with epoxy. Catalina Direct has a kit for shaping keels. Rudder Craft has rudder blades, if you don't want to mess with the rudder. Blue water yachts has lots of upgrades for the 26 X &M, many of which will fit your boat. They are a good source of info.
Macs are light weight and therefore fast. There is lots of info out there suggesting that you "upgrade" by up sizing rigging specs, etc, etc. Roger designed a nice, elegant boat. Keep it the way he designed it, tune it right. work on the foil a bit, and you will have a marvelous boat. It took me 5 years to learn what is in these 2 paragraphs. Much of that time I was really confused at the way my boat was acting. I got rid of my boat because it was too small. I was seriously considering a 25 or a classic 26, but fell in love with the Mariner. Enjoy your boat. Join one of the MacGregor boards. I am not expert, butI'll help any way I can. Enjoy!!
Lou
Congrats on the boat. It looks real nice, from the pictures. Macgregor made a number of models with different features. All 25's had a "swing keel" which weighs 6 or700 LBS. It is solid steel. Your boat does not have water ballast. There is a largish bolt which acts as a hinge. and a smaller "lock" bolt, which keep the keel down. Macgregors are great boats, once they are set up properly. Unfortunatly, most Mac owners are beginners, and never get set up properly. Get it rigged, and take an experienced sailor, better yet a sail maker, to check the rig tune.On my boat, the back stay was too long, and the mast canted forward, instead of raking backwards. This made it difficult to tack. I had an early Venture 22. On my boat, the foils ( rudder and keel) were barely shaped hunks of wood and steel. This led to a LOT of leeway, and interesting steering. You can easily reshape the keel and rudder with epoxy. Catalina Direct has a kit for shaping keels. Rudder Craft has rudder blades, if you don't want to mess with the rudder. Blue water yachts has lots of upgrades for the 26 X &M, many of which will fit your boat. They are a good source of info.
Macs are light weight and therefore fast. There is lots of info out there suggesting that you "upgrade" by up sizing rigging specs, etc, etc. Roger designed a nice, elegant boat. Keep it the way he designed it, tune it right. work on the foil a bit, and you will have a marvelous boat. It took me 5 years to learn what is in these 2 paragraphs. Much of that time I was really confused at the way my boat was acting. I got rid of my boat because it was too small. I was seriously considering a 25 or a classic 26, but fell in love with the Mariner. Enjoy your boat. Join one of the MacGregor boards. I am not expert, butI'll help any way I can. Enjoy!!
Lou
One thing that also needs to be checked closely is the winch and cable for raising the keel. Mine was very rusty and did not work correctly so I replaced it with a new cable. Looks like you got a really nice boat there. The keel should be cast iron and have filler on it to shape it slightly. There are a number of posts here on removing it and refinishing it. Welcome aboard.
UPDATE:
The Spicy Monkey made it home with no issues. Put new tires on the trailer and it towed like a charm. The trailer brakes will need some attention as well as the lights.
There was about 2” of ice in the bottom of the cockpit. It was stuck to the carpet and there is no damage to the fiberglass.
The deck appears to be structurally sound. There are some small cracks around some of the bolt holes for the railing. I believe those are the spider cracks someone had previously mentioned. I don’t think they will be a real issue but have plans to apply some fiberglass resin and possible patch anywhere I find such cracks.
The hull appears to be in great condition structurally, however it has a strangely scuffed paint job. I will post pictures. No cracks that I have seen yet.
I have not yet inspected the keel, but I know the winch works.
Everything appears to be operable. I will need to replace all of the lines as they have sat in the weather for god knows how long. All the stays are in good condition. I will post pictures of the rudder at some point as I would like some opinions on the condition.
Now that I have had a chance to search through the boat a little more, and I kind of know what I’m looking at, I found a whole bunch of good stuff:
Registration
Laminated owners manual
Main Sail
Jib Sail
Tiller
Sail cover
Plenty of good line
Full ground tackle
Flare gun (with plenty of flares)
Road Flares
Can anyone point me in the direction of a mast raising tool. It seems like most people are making their own. Any good tutorials out there?
Thank you all very much for your support.
The Spicy Monkey made it home with no issues. Put new tires on the trailer and it towed like a charm. The trailer brakes will need some attention as well as the lights.
There was about 2” of ice in the bottom of the cockpit. It was stuck to the carpet and there is no damage to the fiberglass.
The deck appears to be structurally sound. There are some small cracks around some of the bolt holes for the railing. I believe those are the spider cracks someone had previously mentioned. I don’t think they will be a real issue but have plans to apply some fiberglass resin and possible patch anywhere I find such cracks.
The hull appears to be in great condition structurally, however it has a strangely scuffed paint job. I will post pictures. No cracks that I have seen yet.
I have not yet inspected the keel, but I know the winch works.
Everything appears to be operable. I will need to replace all of the lines as they have sat in the weather for god knows how long. All the stays are in good condition. I will post pictures of the rudder at some point as I would like some opinions on the condition.
Now that I have had a chance to search through the boat a little more, and I kind of know what I’m looking at, I found a whole bunch of good stuff:
Registration
Laminated owners manual
Main Sail
Jib Sail
Tiller
Sail cover
Plenty of good line
Full ground tackle
Flare gun (with plenty of flares)
Road Flares
Can anyone point me in the direction of a mast raising tool. It seems like most people are making their own. Any good tutorials out there?
Thank you all very much for your support.
Good deal on getting the boat home and it looks like you are on the way to having some boating fun!!
As far as the mast raising our boat came with the gear but not much there that can't be replicated simply....
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor/rigging-2.html
Sumner
===========================================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas
If you are talking about the bottom it looks like it had bottom paint on it keep barnacles from growing. Most trailer boats us ablative bottom paint that keeps wearing off to be effective. Google it.
The flares are probably out of date if you sail where you need them to be up-to-date, but keep them as backups.
As far as the mast raising our boat came with the gear but not much there that can't be replicated simply....
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor/rigging-2.html
Sumner
===========================================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas
JAYNV snip "Can anyone point me in the direction of a mast raising tool. It seems like most people are making their own. Any good tutorials out there?"
There exists endless discussion on this forum and many other places on the internet.
There are also many ways to skin the same cat.
I am on my 3rd design (now in use for 4 years), all of them made from on hand items
found in the garage. My next and final one will be a little prettier and expensive.
There are essentially 2 types, moving gin pole and stationary gin pole.
Some store bought systems are called Mast Raising System (MSR).
I was never willing to pay those prices.
A related subject has to do with "baby stays" for the mast, for the gin pole, and/or both.
This has to do with the stability of the mast while raising or lowering since the permanent shrouds
on the boat will be slack for most of the trip up and down, creating a potential hazard.
I use baby stays for the mast, but not for the gin pole.
Some systems use A frames and such - and I find them to be serious overkill for a mast of the size
of the one found on a Mac 25. Your mast is damn light. Keep it as simple as possible.
There exists endless discussion on this forum and many other places on the internet.
There are also many ways to skin the same cat.
I am on my 3rd design (now in use for 4 years), all of them made from on hand items
found in the garage. My next and final one will be a little prettier and expensive.
There are essentially 2 types, moving gin pole and stationary gin pole.
Some store bought systems are called Mast Raising System (MSR).
I was never willing to pay those prices.
A related subject has to do with "baby stays" for the mast, for the gin pole, and/or both.
This has to do with the stability of the mast while raising or lowering since the permanent shrouds
on the boat will be slack for most of the trip up and down, creating a potential hazard.
I use baby stays for the mast, but not for the gin pole.
Some systems use A frames and such - and I find them to be serious overkill for a mast of the size
of the one found on a Mac 25. Your mast is damn light. Keep it as simple as possible.
Definitely seek an ASA course - those that can, do; those that can do well and explain how and why, teach; those who can't, pass laws about teaching...
http://www.nauticed.org has classes online that might offer a good intro to terminology and basic principles.
Last edited:
Hello again everyone. I believe this will be my last post on this thread.
A little bit of an update as well as a few more questions for you all.
- I pulled the sails out today and laid them out on the ground. They appear to be in great condition. There are no holes/tears. I did see one patch, but it appears to be sound. All the stitching appears to be fine.
- I had a better look at the hull today and it is in really good condition. I googled "ablative bottom paint" per Sumner's advice and I believe that's what is on my hull. Pic attached. Feel free to take a look and correct me if I am mistaken. Please also feel free to criticize anything I am doing. I want to do this thing right.
- I am concerned with the bracket (tabernacle?) that is used to mount the mast to the deck. I have attached a picture of this bracket and the bottom of the mast. Most of the ones I have seen online are a bit different (usually a plate with hinge on one side and pin holes on the other). I am wondering if the style of bracket on my boat is normal and if I should upgrade to something more advanced/current. There is also no plate on the bottom of my mast.
- After much online investigation, I believe a Gin Pole is in order. I will fabricate one myself. I have some pipe and bracketry laying around that I can use to that end. I actually have access to a whole pallet of Chinese, 1500 lbs, 12v, ATV winches, that I can use for a number of things including fashioning a make shift mast raising system. I may toy with that a bit and see if I can make something that will achieve my goals.
- My rudder appears to be pretty rough. It appears to be glue-lam plywood encased in fiberglass. It is hinged and the wood is exposed in the hinge. (pic attached) Some of the paint is chipping off of the fiberglass and the wood looks warn but not damaged in the hinged area. The rudder swings just fine, and the hinge works, but I am concerned with the state of the exposed wood. Please take a look at the attached pictures and advise.
- You may have noticed the boot on the (transom?) meant for steering linkage, I assume. If I don't plan on reinstalling a linkage or wheel, should I remove that and glass the hole?
Don't mind the busted camper in the background. It took a spill and I am scrapping it. In fact, I plan on using some of the parts for my boat. I plan on building a replica of the original sliding galleys utilizing materials salvaged from the camper. Mostly just the sink. I'm not so sure how comfortable I am installing a propane system on a boat.... Weight may also be an issue.
Also, if anyone is curious, the large dog in the first pic is Ayla, a Central Asian Shepard, AKA Central Asian Ovcharka, AKA, Alabai Dog. They are a breed of livestock guardian dog hailing from Russia. The little one is Cinderella, (never let your 5 year old daughter name the new puppy, otherwise it won't matter how tough you think you are when you are outside yelling "Cinderella, Cinderella, come here girl.....) she is a Cocker Spaniel/Springer Spaniel mix.
As always, Thank you all for your input and continued support as I enter the sailing community. I am very appreciative of the advice I have received from this community and hope to one day be able to pass on the knowledge I have acquired to someone else.
A little bit of an update as well as a few more questions for you all.
- I pulled the sails out today and laid them out on the ground. They appear to be in great condition. There are no holes/tears. I did see one patch, but it appears to be sound. All the stitching appears to be fine.
- I had a better look at the hull today and it is in really good condition. I googled "ablative bottom paint" per Sumner's advice and I believe that's what is on my hull. Pic attached. Feel free to take a look and correct me if I am mistaken. Please also feel free to criticize anything I am doing. I want to do this thing right.
- I am concerned with the bracket (tabernacle?) that is used to mount the mast to the deck. I have attached a picture of this bracket and the bottom of the mast. Most of the ones I have seen online are a bit different (usually a plate with hinge on one side and pin holes on the other). I am wondering if the style of bracket on my boat is normal and if I should upgrade to something more advanced/current. There is also no plate on the bottom of my mast.
- After much online investigation, I believe a Gin Pole is in order. I will fabricate one myself. I have some pipe and bracketry laying around that I can use to that end. I actually have access to a whole pallet of Chinese, 1500 lbs, 12v, ATV winches, that I can use for a number of things including fashioning a make shift mast raising system. I may toy with that a bit and see if I can make something that will achieve my goals.
- My rudder appears to be pretty rough. It appears to be glue-lam plywood encased in fiberglass. It is hinged and the wood is exposed in the hinge. (pic attached) Some of the paint is chipping off of the fiberglass and the wood looks warn but not damaged in the hinged area. The rudder swings just fine, and the hinge works, but I am concerned with the state of the exposed wood. Please take a look at the attached pictures and advise.
- You may have noticed the boot on the (transom?) meant for steering linkage, I assume. If I don't plan on reinstalling a linkage or wheel, should I remove that and glass the hole?
Don't mind the busted camper in the background. It took a spill and I am scrapping it. In fact, I plan on using some of the parts for my boat. I plan on building a replica of the original sliding galleys utilizing materials salvaged from the camper. Mostly just the sink. I'm not so sure how comfortable I am installing a propane system on a boat.... Weight may also be an issue.
Also, if anyone is curious, the large dog in the first pic is Ayla, a Central Asian Shepard, AKA Central Asian Ovcharka, AKA, Alabai Dog. They are a breed of livestock guardian dog hailing from Russia. The little one is Cinderella, (never let your 5 year old daughter name the new puppy, otherwise it won't matter how tough you think you are when you are outside yelling "Cinderella, Cinderella, come here girl.....) she is a Cocker Spaniel/Springer Spaniel mix.
As always, Thank you all for your input and continued support as I enter the sailing community. I am very appreciative of the advice I have received from this community and hope to one day be able to pass on the knowledge I have acquired to someone else.
Looks pretty much like one would expect.
I wouldn't worry too much about the whole winch business, you'll find the mast is a fairly simple thing, we used to put the 26c mast up without the pole, it was just easier, and the 270 uses a pole because well, it's 30 something feet long and I'd hate to see it get away.
Rig it up and get it in the water. See if it floats.
I wouldn't worry too much about the whole winch business, you'll find the mast is a fairly simple thing, we used to put the 26c mast up without the pole, it was just easier, and the 270 uses a pole because well, it's 30 something feet long and I'd hate to see it get away.
Rig it up and get it in the water. See if it floats.
- I pulled the sails out today and laid them out on the ground. They appear to be in great condition. There are no holes/tears. I did see one patch, but it appears to be sound. All the stitching appears to be fine.
They do look good, I wasn't so lucky and sailed 5 years on blown out sails
- I want to do this thing right. No matter what you do someone will say its wrong. Get used to it. In the end your own judgement rules. Absorb available info and decide.
- I am concerned with the bracket (tabernacle?) that is used to mount the mast to the deck. I have attached a picture of this bracket and the bottom of the mast. Most of the ones I have seen online are a bit different (usually a plate with hinge on one side and pin holes on the other). I am wondering if the style of bracket on my boat is normal and if I should upgrade to something more advanced/current. There is also no plate on the bottom of my mast.
There is nothing wrong with your tabernacle. You don't need a hinged plate or a base for the mast bottom. When you put the pin (long bolt) through the tabernacle and the mast that becomes your hinge.
- After much online investigation, I believe a Gin Pole is in order. I will fabricate one myself. I have some pipe and bracketry laying around that I can use to that end. I actually have access to a whole pallet of Chinese, 1500 lbs, 12v, ATV winches, that I can use for a number of things including fashioning a make shift mast raising system. I may toy with that a bit and see if I can make something that will achieve my goals. If you make a gin pole with an integrated winch I advise you to use a Braking Winch for safety. Not one of the clicky free wheeling ones like those found on a trailer. Have you decided on moving or stationary gin pole? I designed mine so that it can be used on the water to clear bridges. My next one will actually LIVE on the mast full time.
- My rudder appears to be pretty rough. It appears to be glue-lam plywood encased in fiberglass. It is hinged and the wood is exposed in the hinge. (pic attached) Some of the paint is chipping off of the fiberglass and the wood looks warn but not damaged in the hinged area. The rudder swings just fine, and the hinge works, but I am concerned with the state of the exposed wood. Please take a look at the attached pictures and advise. My rudder is solid wood. So no comment.
- You may have noticed the boot on the (transom?) meant for steering linkage, I assume. If I don't plan on reinstalling a linkage or wheel, should I remove that and glass the hole? That boot may have been for engine electrical cable to battery? That is a mod a previous owner has done. Your choice on what to do. I would keep it low priority and see how it goes.
Don't mind the busted camper in the background. It took a spill and I am scrapping it. In fact, I plan on using some of the parts for my boat. I plan on building a replica of the original sliding galleys utilizing materials salvaged from the camper. Mostly just the sink. I'm not so sure how comfortable I am installing a propane system on a boat.... Weight may also be an issue.I use a propane 2 burner camp stove using 1 lbs bottles and has been very convenient.
Keep in mind always that there is never one "right" way to do anything. You are not restricted to "Mac/Venture" parts exclusively in most cases. Always consider advise and temper it with your own good sense. I have a Venture 224 which is the model of venture that evolved into the Venture Mac 25 so our boats are very similar. My boat is heavily modded and very little is as MacGreger made it. Its your boat, make so make it YOUR boat.
They do look good, I wasn't so lucky and sailed 5 years on blown out sails
- I want to do this thing right. No matter what you do someone will say its wrong. Get used to it. In the end your own judgement rules. Absorb available info and decide.
- I am concerned with the bracket (tabernacle?) that is used to mount the mast to the deck. I have attached a picture of this bracket and the bottom of the mast. Most of the ones I have seen online are a bit different (usually a plate with hinge on one side and pin holes on the other). I am wondering if the style of bracket on my boat is normal and if I should upgrade to something more advanced/current. There is also no plate on the bottom of my mast.
There is nothing wrong with your tabernacle. You don't need a hinged plate or a base for the mast bottom. When you put the pin (long bolt) through the tabernacle and the mast that becomes your hinge.
- After much online investigation, I believe a Gin Pole is in order. I will fabricate one myself. I have some pipe and bracketry laying around that I can use to that end. I actually have access to a whole pallet of Chinese, 1500 lbs, 12v, ATV winches, that I can use for a number of things including fashioning a make shift mast raising system. I may toy with that a bit and see if I can make something that will achieve my goals. If you make a gin pole with an integrated winch I advise you to use a Braking Winch for safety. Not one of the clicky free wheeling ones like those found on a trailer. Have you decided on moving or stationary gin pole? I designed mine so that it can be used on the water to clear bridges. My next one will actually LIVE on the mast full time.
- My rudder appears to be pretty rough. It appears to be glue-lam plywood encased in fiberglass. It is hinged and the wood is exposed in the hinge. (pic attached) Some of the paint is chipping off of the fiberglass and the wood looks warn but not damaged in the hinged area. The rudder swings just fine, and the hinge works, but I am concerned with the state of the exposed wood. Please take a look at the attached pictures and advise. My rudder is solid wood. So no comment.
- You may have noticed the boot on the (transom?) meant for steering linkage, I assume. If I don't plan on reinstalling a linkage or wheel, should I remove that and glass the hole? That boot may have been for engine electrical cable to battery? That is a mod a previous owner has done. Your choice on what to do. I would keep it low priority and see how it goes.
Don't mind the busted camper in the background. It took a spill and I am scrapping it. In fact, I plan on using some of the parts for my boat. I plan on building a replica of the original sliding galleys utilizing materials salvaged from the camper. Mostly just the sink. I'm not so sure how comfortable I am installing a propane system on a boat.... Weight may also be an issue.I use a propane 2 burner camp stove using 1 lbs bottles and has been very convenient.
Keep in mind always that there is never one "right" way to do anything. You are not restricted to "Mac/Venture" parts exclusively in most cases. Always consider advise and temper it with your own good sense. I have a Venture 224 which is the model of venture that evolved into the Venture Mac 25 so our boats are very similar. My boat is heavily modded and very little is as MacGreger made it. Its your boat, make so make it YOUR boat.
Oh! I like the idea of a fixed gin pole. For the most part though, I would like to keep it simple. I don’t plan on doing massive modifications. I do want to be able to cook if we’re doing an overnighter or something, but this is all a ways down the road. First I need to make the Spicy Monkey seaworthy. Then I need to learn to sail. Then I’ll worry about enhancements. With the exception of a gin pole. I feel this is an important modification for me to do early on.
The gin poles sumner and justsomeguy posted are of moving gin poles using external tackle. A stationary gin pole usually has a winch on the gin pole itself....
Rudder: Seal the exposed wood, but don't build up so much as to interfere with the parts mating. Store with the bottom part in the up position so that water drains off. Sail with the bottom part in the down position. It probably floats, so you may have to secure it in the down position. I'm guessing that is the function of the line attached to the lower part's leading edge.
JAY NV - on this forum, if you go to Boat Info / Owner Resources / General Downloads, you will find under the title Original MacGregor Sales Brochure (Pts 1 & 2) the info from when the boat came out of the factory. You have a great boat. My first racing sailboat was a heavily modified M25 and it was a lot of fun to day sail and race. As far as learning the ropes, taking an approved ASA course is great if you have any nearby. If not, the library usually has a very basic boat on sailing. this will teach you about 80% of what you need. From there your learning curve will be very steep and enjoyable as you learn more each time you take it out. Just take it out in relatively calm conditions and not gale force winds when trying to learn until your confidence level builds up. Wish you all the best and safe and happy sailing.
Nice boat and I think its awesome all the help you are getting on this forum!! You guys should have a lot of fun!
One note.. I cant tell if its the angle the rudder is at in the picture but it also looks like it might be a little short? I have a ruddercraft aftermarket rudder on my 26S and I didnt have a tape measure but estimated that the rudder itself is about four feet long - ie,, the section that is actually in the water is about four feet. I took this picture this morning. I think the 26S is similar in many ways to the 25.
I would not at all worry about this now - just go sail the boat. Things like rounding up from a rudder stall could be from all sorts of things but it could also be from too small of a rudder. Or.. maybe it was just the angle in that picture..
One note.. I cant tell if its the angle the rudder is at in the picture but it also looks like it might be a little short? I have a ruddercraft aftermarket rudder on my 26S and I didnt have a tape measure but estimated that the rudder itself is about four feet long - ie,, the section that is actually in the water is about four feet. I took this picture this morning. I think the 26S is similar in many ways to the 25.
I would not at all worry about this now - just go sail the boat. Things like rounding up from a rudder stall could be from all sorts of things but it could also be from too small of a rudder. Or.. maybe it was just the angle in that picture..
You being a new sailor may I suggest doing what I did when I was new and bought my first sailboat. I bumped into an old sailor at West Marine and after telling him that I was new to sailing he offered me to join his racing crew on Wednesday nights to learn and gain some experience sailing. He said "If you become a good racer, you will be an excellent sailor". Well that was 6 years ago and I now sail and race my own boat with total confidence. Learned how to sail and made a lot of friends along the way too. Search out the local sailing club at your lake and inquire about when they race. Someone is always looking for crew.