I know on the X and the M, MacGregor placed the year and model info on a brass plate on the stern, starboard side. The numbers and letter combination was coding for the month of production, the year of production, and I believe the model. I don’t about prior models, but I’d not be surprised to see that Rodger just stayed the course. If I can, tomorrow I’ll try to look at my M to decipher the code.
New Owner with absolutely no experience sailing
- Thread starter JAYNV
- Start date
The “normal” places are the starboard side aft of the hull just below the rubrail, and someplace inside, often under the front berth on the port side. Usually just stamped into the glass, and unseen unless you are looking right at them.
Congrats on the boat!!
One thing I would check before going in the water and it isn't easy is the centerboard and the hole in it and the pivot pin. More that one Mac 25 owner has had any of those items fail and lost the centerboard. If that happens it is going to be hard to find another one.
If you google you should find posts on checking the centerboard. It is heavy so don't just pull the pin out. I also think that is an area that can leak but believe BWY has parts to address that at a reasonable cost,
Sumner
======================================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/endeavour-main/endeavour-index.html
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas
One thing I would check before going in the water and it isn't easy is the centerboard and the hole in it and the pivot pin. More that one Mac 25 owner has had any of those items fail and lost the centerboard. If that happens it is going to be hard to find another one.
If you google you should find posts on checking the centerboard. It is heavy so don't just pull the pin out. I also think that is an area that can leak but believe BWY has parts to address that at a reasonable cost,
Sumner
======================================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/endeavour-main/endeavour-index.html
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas
The head (toilet) is a porta potty; it basically works like a bucket so chances are it is working fine. It looks like it has a separate water tank for flushing with a little push pump. A 40# of thrush trolling motor is about the equivalent of a 1/2 HP gasoline outboard engine. I calm conditions it will move the boat but against any wind or swells it will likely not be strong enough to push forward. Does lake Tahoe only allow 4 stroke engines? You are going to need something stronger than the trolling motor and that 7HP 2 stroke motor would be perfect so check the regulations and find out if there is a way that you could use the engine. The alternative, other than purchasing a 4 stroke, would be to learn how to sail without an engine. It can be done and would allow you to learn some real sailing skill but in the mean time you will need an engine. I cannot see your uncle turning down a request to teach what has probably taken him many years to learn so have him take you out a few times and show you the ropes. There are many publications and articles online on the physics of sailing that you can read on your own. It will all make sense once your uncle starts showing you how things work. Welcome to the forum.
Well, time to start posting again....
JAYNV: My observations on your boat and on some of the replies you received.
What a beauty. Couldn't ask for a better price. Someone obviously took good care of that boat, it appears in great shape and has several mods done by someone that loved that boat a lot. Even your sails look like they have stiffness left in them! I only wish I had been so lucky when I bought my wreck.
You absolutely CAN sail that boat with the keel winched all the way up. I do it all of the time especially on a run even in high winds under full sail. Doing so upwind just causes a lot of side slip among other things but it is perfectly safe.
You certainly can hoist your sails while on the trailer and I encourage you to do so to work out the kinks. Just ensure your waist strap is on and your bow winch hooked up tight and don't do it in 40 mph of wind.
I have a 15hp long shaft motor and it is TOO MUCH. Too heavy, too hungry, weighs to much, most power wasted. Someday I will replace it with a 7-8 hp EXTRA long shaft. A long shaft is barely ok, and a short shaft is a no go in my opinion.
There is nothing stopping you from leaving the mast at home, installing a motor and launching as a motor boat for a day.
Just tool around for a while and get the feel of her and what it will be like launching and recovering and testing out your swing keel. Catch some fish while you are at it.
Did it come with any ground tackle?
JAYNV: My observations on your boat and on some of the replies you received.
What a beauty. Couldn't ask for a better price. Someone obviously took good care of that boat, it appears in great shape and has several mods done by someone that loved that boat a lot. Even your sails look like they have stiffness left in them! I only wish I had been so lucky when I bought my wreck.
You absolutely CAN sail that boat with the keel winched all the way up. I do it all of the time especially on a run even in high winds under full sail. Doing so upwind just causes a lot of side slip among other things but it is perfectly safe.
You certainly can hoist your sails while on the trailer and I encourage you to do so to work out the kinks. Just ensure your waist strap is on and your bow winch hooked up tight and don't do it in 40 mph of wind.
I have a 15hp long shaft motor and it is TOO MUCH. Too heavy, too hungry, weighs to much, most power wasted. Someday I will replace it with a 7-8 hp EXTRA long shaft. A long shaft is barely ok, and a short shaft is a no go in my opinion.
There is nothing stopping you from leaving the mast at home, installing a motor and launching as a motor boat for a day.
Just tool around for a while and get the feel of her and what it will be like launching and recovering and testing out your swing keel. Catch some fish while you are at it.
Did it come with any ground tackle?
ground tackle = Anchor and anchor line, called an anchor rode. Nothing to do with fishing except being able to hold still while fishing. Hopefully, your ground tackle includes a length of chain between the rope and the anchor. It's ok if it doesn't, you're on a lake, for now.
It's an excellent question because anchors save boats.
- Will (Dragonfly)
Thank you all for the very warm welcome and advice.
I’m hoping to pick the Spicy Monkey up next weekend.
I will be checking out the keel. Many of the articles I have read and videos I have watched spoke of keel issues. Swing, swell, etc. if I have properly identified the boat as a venture 25, and I understand correctly, the swing keel is 625 lbs. and is made of metal. So I will be very careful not to crush myself.
Lake Tahoe prohibits 2 strokes. I would be forced to use my 40# thrust trolling motor if I want to use a motor there. I don’t expect that little motor to do much other than keeping my bow into the wind.
I don’t recall seeing any ground tackle while I was there. Not going to lie though, I did have to look that term up. I read a very descriptive article about different types of anchors and lines. I was surprised by how much I didn’t know about them. I always just figured the weight from the anchor held the boat in place.....
A couple questions:
————————————————
Is the centerboard the keel?
Does a 25/venture 25 have a ballast or does the weighted keel stabilize the boat without one?
Can anyone confirm by the pictures that I have identified this vessel correctly and it is in fact a Venture 25?
Can the keel be checked while on the trailer?
Are these swing keels hollow/solid?
If hollow, are they designed to fill with water like a ballast?
(I would assume, a device on the underside of a boat, designed to stabilize said boat, would be solid so as not to float and be counter productive.)
Other than the keel are there any other “problem spots” that I should pay particular attention to while inspecting?
How many through-hull fittings should a boat like this have from the factory?
What kind of electrical systems is everyone running?
(The spicy monkey has a 12v system powered by 1 deep cycle, and a small solar panel to keep it charged. I believe the power is only used for some lights and the bulge pump.)
Might it be better to operate multiple batteries in sequence? Pros/cons?
————————————————
I’m hoping to pick the Spicy Monkey up next weekend.
I will be checking out the keel. Many of the articles I have read and videos I have watched spoke of keel issues. Swing, swell, etc. if I have properly identified the boat as a venture 25, and I understand correctly, the swing keel is 625 lbs. and is made of metal. So I will be very careful not to crush myself.
Lake Tahoe prohibits 2 strokes. I would be forced to use my 40# thrust trolling motor if I want to use a motor there. I don’t expect that little motor to do much other than keeping my bow into the wind.
I don’t recall seeing any ground tackle while I was there. Not going to lie though, I did have to look that term up. I read a very descriptive article about different types of anchors and lines. I was surprised by how much I didn’t know about them. I always just figured the weight from the anchor held the boat in place.....
A couple questions:
————————————————
Is the centerboard the keel?
Does a 25/venture 25 have a ballast or does the weighted keel stabilize the boat without one?
Can anyone confirm by the pictures that I have identified this vessel correctly and it is in fact a Venture 25?
Can the keel be checked while on the trailer?
Are these swing keels hollow/solid?
If hollow, are they designed to fill with water like a ballast?
(I would assume, a device on the underside of a boat, designed to stabilize said boat, would be solid so as not to float and be counter productive.)
Other than the keel are there any other “problem spots” that I should pay particular attention to while inspecting?
How many through-hull fittings should a boat like this have from the factory?
What kind of electrical systems is everyone running?
(The spicy monkey has a 12v system powered by 1 deep cycle, and a small solar panel to keep it charged. I believe the power is only used for some lights and the bulge pump.)
Might it be better to operate multiple batteries in sequence? Pros/cons?
————————————————
1- Sort of.
2- The keel is the ballast.
3- Looks like a Mac 25.
4- Yes.
5- Solid.
6- Deck integrity.
7- Zero
8- That's a variable, but simpler is better, usually.
With navigation/anchor and cabin lights, our radio, and starting the engine as our only loads, one deep cycle battery has proved to be all we need. The alternator on our inboard Diesel engine keeps it charged from getting out of and into the harbor, and from cruising on the engine when there is not enough wind. If you are usually going to be on the boat when it is in the water, a manual bilge pump should be fine. If you want to add electrical loads (for entertainment or refrigeration for example) you need to calculate the amp-hours you need, and the battery and charging capacity to support the added load.
No, explicit is more helpful I’m sure.
Jay,
When you do get her up and sailing, post photos.
Ray
JNAV,
Keel just refers the the center structure that runs bow to stern on a boat. Power boats have keels too. Sailboats can have a full keel (the part below the hull running the whole length and depth), a partial keel (running part of the length but full depth), a stub keel, like yours (running part of the depth, the rest of the depth, referred to as draft, made up by the "swing keel" or a "daggerboard"), a centerboard (the swing keel makes up all the depth below the hull, or a daggerboard (meaning the retraction of the board is up and down like a stabbing dagger), a fin keel that is very deep but narrow like a dorsal fin. There are other terms thrown around like 'wing keel', 'canting keel', etc. that are either very specialized or interchangeable with another term, I loose track and try to stick to the basic ones I'm sure of.
The main purpose of a keel below the hull is to provide two things: added stability by putting more weight as low as possible and lateral resistance, so a sailboat tracks along her path instead of blowing sideways. The swing keel and daggerboard are often not weighted because their primary job is lateral resistance. Your boat has a stub keel and it sounds like you have a weighted CB (centerboard). There will be ballast in the stub keel, maybe lead, also. MacGregors use water ballast too, I don't know where the ballast tank is, could be in the stub keel but probably just over it. Never heard of anyone filling a CB with water. You should be able to sail your boat with the CB up in light winds. My mariner is self-righting with the CB down, your boat probably is too. It might also be self-righting with the board up, I couldn't say.
I would defer to everyone else on this site as to what type of Mac you have. She's good looking and free, that makes her perfect.
You should make sure she is dried out and look into every nook and cranny you can squeeze into. Note where there are water stains, look for rot in the wood, if you have any of that high maintenance material onboard. You can tap the hull and deck with a plastic screwdriver handle to listen for 'dead' areas that might indicate rotting or wet core material or hollow spots where the fiberglass is separating. Pay attention to high stress areas around chainplates where stay cables pull hard on the hull, the mast tabernacle in your cabin top, the gudgeons on your stern that hold the CB should be solid. It looks like the mast step is supported by that 2x4 with the coat hook screwed to it, in the picture with your wife in the 'V' birth. It sits on top of the centerboard trunk and braces the mast step.
leaks most often occur around the portlights or deadlights (the windows - 'dead' means they don't open), the mast step, anywhere something passes through the 'skin' of the boat, the joint between deck and hull, and the pin of the centerboard.
Look for rust, wear, fraying of rigging. Kinks in cables are "no bueno". Jiggle as your hardware, cleats, winches, cams, blocks, etc. to be sure they are seated in good bedding and solid. Don't want to find out your bow cleat is loose when it comes out and you have to dive for the anchor.
Standing rigging is all the rigging that doesn't normally move: stays, spreaders, turnbuckles, etc. Running rigging is all the rigging that does move: halyard, sheet, downhauls, outhauls, vangs, etc. Inspect their wear as you setup.
Listen, do you hear cracking of tiny dry fibers as you bend the lines or sails? UV kills boats and equipment. You have a boat that has had a lot of UV exposure. There WILL be spider cracks, don't worry about them. They are good indicators of places to look for weak spots but they don't mean there are weak spots. Mostly, just make sure all the points of connection for rigging to boat are solid. You will discover anything else over time and most of it will not be critical.
Your 40lb thrust motor is good to get from trailer to rigging dock and not much else on a 25' sailboat. You probably don't need more if you are on a lake and don't have to fight the wind. A long boat hook as a driving pole in shallow water might help to push your bow or stern around when the wind is pushing you off the trailer. 12 volts should work fine for that motor. Over 55lb thrust and you would need 24v. A solar charger is awesome. I'm looking at putting one on Dragonfly. If your system can handle the draw, I wouldn't upgrade until you needed to replace the battery and only if you felt it was inadequate. The mantra is: adequate is perfect.
I will pass on the advice I get form the mariner group I am a member of; Do what you need to do to get her sailing and go sailing. The rest you can do over time.
Have fun.
-Will (Dragonfly)
Keel just refers the the center structure that runs bow to stern on a boat. Power boats have keels too. Sailboats can have a full keel (the part below the hull running the whole length and depth), a partial keel (running part of the length but full depth), a stub keel, like yours (running part of the depth, the rest of the depth, referred to as draft, made up by the "swing keel" or a "daggerboard"), a centerboard (the swing keel makes up all the depth below the hull, or a daggerboard (meaning the retraction of the board is up and down like a stabbing dagger), a fin keel that is very deep but narrow like a dorsal fin. There are other terms thrown around like 'wing keel', 'canting keel', etc. that are either very specialized or interchangeable with another term, I loose track and try to stick to the basic ones I'm sure of.
The main purpose of a keel below the hull is to provide two things: added stability by putting more weight as low as possible and lateral resistance, so a sailboat tracks along her path instead of blowing sideways. The swing keel and daggerboard are often not weighted because their primary job is lateral resistance. Your boat has a stub keel and it sounds like you have a weighted CB (centerboard). There will be ballast in the stub keel, maybe lead, also. MacGregors use water ballast too, I don't know where the ballast tank is, could be in the stub keel but probably just over it. Never heard of anyone filling a CB with water. You should be able to sail your boat with the CB up in light winds. My mariner is self-righting with the CB down, your boat probably is too. It might also be self-righting with the board up, I couldn't say.
I would defer to everyone else on this site as to what type of Mac you have. She's good looking and free, that makes her perfect.
You should make sure she is dried out and look into every nook and cranny you can squeeze into. Note where there are water stains, look for rot in the wood, if you have any of that high maintenance material onboard. You can tap the hull and deck with a plastic screwdriver handle to listen for 'dead' areas that might indicate rotting or wet core material or hollow spots where the fiberglass is separating. Pay attention to high stress areas around chainplates where stay cables pull hard on the hull, the mast tabernacle in your cabin top, the gudgeons on your stern that hold the CB should be solid. It looks like the mast step is supported by that 2x4 with the coat hook screwed to it, in the picture with your wife in the 'V' birth. It sits on top of the centerboard trunk and braces the mast step.
leaks most often occur around the portlights or deadlights (the windows - 'dead' means they don't open), the mast step, anywhere something passes through the 'skin' of the boat, the joint between deck and hull, and the pin of the centerboard.
Look for rust, wear, fraying of rigging. Kinks in cables are "no bueno". Jiggle as your hardware, cleats, winches, cams, blocks, etc. to be sure they are seated in good bedding and solid. Don't want to find out your bow cleat is loose when it comes out and you have to dive for the anchor.
Standing rigging is all the rigging that doesn't normally move: stays, spreaders, turnbuckles, etc. Running rigging is all the rigging that does move: halyard, sheet, downhauls, outhauls, vangs, etc. Inspect their wear as you setup.
Listen, do you hear cracking of tiny dry fibers as you bend the lines or sails? UV kills boats and equipment. You have a boat that has had a lot of UV exposure. There WILL be spider cracks, don't worry about them. They are good indicators of places to look for weak spots but they don't mean there are weak spots. Mostly, just make sure all the points of connection for rigging to boat are solid. You will discover anything else over time and most of it will not be critical.
Your 40lb thrust motor is good to get from trailer to rigging dock and not much else on a 25' sailboat. You probably don't need more if you are on a lake and don't have to fight the wind. A long boat hook as a driving pole in shallow water might help to push your bow or stern around when the wind is pushing you off the trailer. 12 volts should work fine for that motor. Over 55lb thrust and you would need 24v. A solar charger is awesome. I'm looking at putting one on Dragonfly. If your system can handle the draw, I wouldn't upgrade until you needed to replace the battery and only if you felt it was inadequate. The mantra is: adequate is perfect.
I will pass on the advice I get form the mariner group I am a member of; Do what you need to do to get her sailing and go sailing. The rest you can do over time.
Have fun.
-Will (Dragonfly)
Great info folks. Thank you all very much. I was able to grab tires today. Going to pick the Spicy Monkey up tomorrow. Hoping I don’t need bearings right away. I just want to get her home already.
I’m Bringing all my tie downs (for the rigging and mast. I want to be extra careful.), generator and tools. I’m also bringing a floor jack and a 4x4 to cut up for blocks as I have to replace both tires.
I found a vlog on YouTube called sailing freestyle. The guy got a Venture 22, that had been sitting for 15 years, for free and restored it to working condition. I must have watched something like 15, 20-30 minute episodes. Everything from him cleaning the exterior, to fiberglass repair, to him putting it on the water for the first time. The next thing I know I’m having dreams about this boat. I just have to get it home right away to start tinkering.
I’m Bringing all my tie downs (for the rigging and mast. I want to be extra careful.), generator and tools. I’m also bringing a floor jack and a 4x4 to cut up for blocks as I have to replace both tires.
I found a vlog on YouTube called sailing freestyle. The guy got a Venture 22, that had been sitting for 15 years, for free and restored it to working condition. I must have watched something like 15, 20-30 minute episodes. Everything from him cleaning the exterior, to fiberglass repair, to him putting it on the water for the first time. The next thing I know I’m having dreams about this boat. I just have to get it home right away to start tinkering.
I don’t know how far your tow home will be, so I tell you this assuming it is over an hour. Every hour on this first tow home pull into a test stop area and place your hand on the bearing hub. If it is slightly warm to the touch, that’s fine. If it is hot, don’t go any farther. You have bearing problems.
Now that I am mentioning it, get towing insurance. If you join BOATUS, you can get “Trailer assist”. Twelve seasons and no problem, then last summer a bubble in the tire, smoke, and BOATUS Trailer assist to the rescue. Night in the middle of the Adirondacks, and blown tire. Be prepared.
Now that I am mentioning it, get towing insurance. If you join BOATUS, you can get “Trailer assist”. Twelve seasons and no problem, then last summer a bubble in the tire, smoke, and BOATUS Trailer assist to the rescue. Night in the middle of the Adirondacks, and blown tire. Be prepared.
use a inexpensive IR temp gauge - you can burn the shxxxt out out your hands if there is a problem -- lets be safe!!!
He is correct about how hot a hub can get if the bearing is bad. If your budget allows, a temp gauge is not a bad idea. I just give a very quick touch to see how hot it is, and then proceed with a more detailed feel.
If it's that hot you probably don't even need to touch it.
- Will (Dragonfly)
Looks like JAYNV has got it covered.
- Will (Dragonfly)