Loved the story, i could almost picture everything as im nearly crying from laughing, glad it worked out though.
Wow! Think I'll not show this to my Admiral. It'll remind her of other reasons she thinks I should stick to flying.
Yea sorry I'm one of those people that can't help but laugh when someone gets hurts(minor injury's). I pictured Bruce Lee and Bart simpson several times during the story, simple minds get amusement from about everything.
Back again with some more questions:
An opportunity to acquire a mast sans boom and several rig components, some of which may be in better shape than some of what I have, has me scrutinizing my mast, boom and standing rig components ahead of plan which has me asking. I'll try to add some pics so you can see what I'm seeing and questioning.
Most of the shrouds I have are measuring as 1/8" dia (0.126" on my digital caliper) but the port lower shroud is coated with some kind of plastic and measures 0.176" dia -- suspecting this is a PO sub/emergency fix.
Q1: Is it reasonable to believe it should also be a 1/8" shroud as well ?
The forestay received with the boat also measures as 1/8" dia but looks like it was cannibalized from a clothesline as it's clearly not SS and the hex-nutted cable clamps are thoroughly rusted. There's also about a 4 feet of excess cable I'll call a "wild tail" that serves no apparent purpose.
Q2: Can anybody confirm that the correct diameter for the forestay is 1/8" ?
The backstay received measures as 0.191" dia with my caliper -- seems much larger than I expected.
Q3: Again, can anyone tell me what the appropriate diameter for a backstay should be for my V21 ?
Some of the stays/shrouds I ave appear to be in decent shape, others definately need replacing.
Q4: Does anybody know of a source for what the "factory" lengths/specs of shrouds and stays should be if I should want to order replacements? I looked on a site called Maury Pro Racing that as a "get a free instant quote" tool that you put your boat make model in but it prompts for the "measured length of your existing component with turnbuckle half open". This is problematic on a couple of fronts. None of the shrouds/stays I have use turnbuckles, instead they're fitted with the multi-hole stay adjusters that MacGregor suggests are better than turnbuckles. Secondly, some of my components have enough bends and kinks in them that I'm unable to pull straight enough to trust any measurement I get.
Q3: Can anybody supply me a picture of what a "factory" masthead looks like? I can tell that something at the top of my existing mast has broken but I can't really tell what it was. (See pics attatched)
An opportunity to acquire a mast sans boom and several rig components, some of which may be in better shape than some of what I have, has me scrutinizing my mast, boom and standing rig components ahead of plan which has me asking. I'll try to add some pics so you can see what I'm seeing and questioning.
Most of the shrouds I have are measuring as 1/8" dia (0.126" on my digital caliper) but the port lower shroud is coated with some kind of plastic and measures 0.176" dia -- suspecting this is a PO sub/emergency fix.
Q1: Is it reasonable to believe it should also be a 1/8" shroud as well ?
The forestay received with the boat also measures as 1/8" dia but looks like it was cannibalized from a clothesline as it's clearly not SS and the hex-nutted cable clamps are thoroughly rusted. There's also about a 4 feet of excess cable I'll call a "wild tail" that serves no apparent purpose.
Q2: Can anybody confirm that the correct diameter for the forestay is 1/8" ?
The backstay received measures as 0.191" dia with my caliper -- seems much larger than I expected.
Q3: Again, can anyone tell me what the appropriate diameter for a backstay should be for my V21 ?
Some of the stays/shrouds I ave appear to be in decent shape, others definately need replacing.
Q4: Does anybody know of a source for what the "factory" lengths/specs of shrouds and stays should be if I should want to order replacements? I looked on a site called Maury Pro Racing that as a "get a free instant quote" tool that you put your boat make model in but it prompts for the "measured length of your existing component with turnbuckle half open". This is problematic on a couple of fronts. None of the shrouds/stays I have use turnbuckles, instead they're fitted with the multi-hole stay adjusters that MacGregor suggests are better than turnbuckles. Secondly, some of my components have enough bends and kinks in them that I'm unable to pull straight enough to trust any measurement I get.
Q3: Can anybody supply me a picture of what a "factory" masthead looks like? I can tell that something at the top of my existing mast has broken but I can't really tell what it was. (See pics attatched)
Attachments
And More:
Q4: Does anybody know of a source for what the "factory" lengths/specs of shrouds and stays should be if I should want to order replacements? I looked on a site called Maury Pro Racing that as a "get a free instant quote" tool that you put your boat make model in but it prompts for the "measured length of your existing component with turnbuckle half open". This is problematic on a couple of fronts. None of the shrouds/stays I have use turnbuckles, instead they're fitted with the multi-hole stay adjusters that MacGregor suggests are better than turnbuckles. Secondly, some of my components have enough bends and kinks in them that I'm unable to pull straight enough to trust any measurement I get.
Q5: Can anybody supply me a picture of what a "factory" masthead looks like? I can tell that something at the top of my existing mast has broken but I can't really tell what it was. (Pics attached in my previous post)
APOLOGIES for misnumbered questions/repeats -- thought the software was restricting my post so I split it but the software posted it all anyway. Thanks!
Q4: Does anybody know of a source for what the "factory" lengths/specs of shrouds and stays should be if I should want to order replacements? I looked on a site called Maury Pro Racing that as a "get a free instant quote" tool that you put your boat make model in but it prompts for the "measured length of your existing component with turnbuckle half open". This is problematic on a couple of fronts. None of the shrouds/stays I have use turnbuckles, instead they're fitted with the multi-hole stay adjusters that MacGregor suggests are better than turnbuckles. Secondly, some of my components have enough bends and kinks in them that I'm unable to pull straight enough to trust any measurement I get.
Q5: Can anybody supply me a picture of what a "factory" masthead looks like? I can tell that something at the top of my existing mast has broken but I can't really tell what it was. (Pics attached in my previous post)
APOLOGIES for misnumbered questions/repeats -- thought the software was restricting my post so I split it but the software posted it all anyway. Thanks!
The broken piece are the remains of a cheek block. I use mine for a topping lift, but I believe there was an optional spinnaker as well.
I will measure my shrouds when I get the mast down this afternoon.
I will measure my shrouds when I get the mast down this afternoon.
My venture 24 mast top looks exactly as yours does but mine has a light mounted on top of it and the hole looks like where your vhf cable would come out to attach a antenna, as far as shrouds give me an hour and I'll measure mine but I assure you the one with the plastic is not stainless and will rust and break
The plastic on the shroud could be the snap on type shroud cover they sell at the marine stores, mine had it when I first got the boat.
Some questions you should ask yourself:
How do I intend to use this boat?
Sunny light wind day sailing?
Weekend with overnights at a dock?
Weekend with overnights on anchor?
Rough water and high wind sailing (over 20 mph)?
Mini cruiser day and night sailing in all weather away from easy sources of assistance for extended periods (that's us)?
What am I willing to invest to make this boat better than it is...
etc.
***I take a stab at some of your questions below:***
questions:
An opportunity to acquire a mast sans boom and several rig components, some of which may be in better shape than some of what I have, has me scrutinizing my mast, boom and standing rig components ahead of plan which has me asking. I'll try to add some pics so you can see what I'm seeing and questioning.
****what size was the old boat that you would get the donor materials from - rigging components for a - say a Hunter 27 would be too heavy of gear for your boat. I recently bought a used mast and when I got it home I discovered that it was a battleship mast! Not really but the rigging and the mast were far far heavier than the Mac gear and I had to strip off everything to lighten it up. All of the big heavy stainless cables had to go along with all of the stainless fittings. I put on the gear from the venture including the stays and shrouds. Ventures are very light boats with light rigging..*****
Most of the shrouds I have are measuring as 1/8" dia (0.126" on my digital caliper) but the port lower shroud is coated with some kind of plastic and measures 0.176" dia -- suspecting this is a PO sub/emergency fix.
Q1: Is it reasonable to believe it should also be a 1/8" shroud as well ?
The forestay received with the boat also measures as 1/8" dia but looks like it was cannibalized from a clothesline as it's clearly not SS and the hex-nutted cable clamps are thoroughly rusted. There's also about a 4 feet of excess cable I'll call a "wild tail" that serves no apparent purpose.
***Mine measure: forestay and backstay= 1/8, all shrouds= 5/32. That backstay of yours is massive. My guess is that both your fore and back stays have been replaced overs the years on the cheap. Where exactly is this 4 feet of excess cable?***
Q2: Can anybody confirm that the correct diameter for the forestay is 1/8" ?
The backstay received measures as 0.191" dia with my caliper -- seems much larger than I expected.
***see Q1***
Q3: Again, can anyone tell me what the appropriate diameter for a backstay should be for my V21 ?
Some of the stays/shrouds I ave appear to be in decent shape, others definately need replacing.
***see also Q1. If the cable is questionable at all replace it. You do not want your mast to come down.***
Q4: Does anybody know of a source for what the "factory" lengths/specs of shrouds and stays should be if I should want to order replacements? I looked on a site called Maury Pro Racing that as a "get a free instant quote" tool that you put your boat make model in but it prompts for the "measured length of your existing component with turnbuckle half open". This is problematic on a couple of fronts. None of the shrouds/stays I have use turnbuckles, instead they're fitted with the multi-hole stay adjusters that MacGregor suggests are better than turnbuckles. Secondly, some of my components have enough bends and kinks in them that I'm unable to pull straight enough to trust any measurement I get.
***No turn buckle on the forestay??? Got a picture???
How I measured: Put mast up make it all plumb and level with boat as close as possible with all the connectors at MIDRANGE (If they are miss-sized they might be too loose/too tight). Use good judgement. Once everything looks to be at neutral mark all shrouds at the bottoms - the idea is to know the "bearing to bearing" distance on the cable. For you that would probably be the inside end of the cable loop/thimble. Take mast down disconnect all cables at bottom and stretch them out tight (use assistant) and measure with tape measure bearing to bearing or marks. Order that bearing to bearing lengths (thimble to thimble loop edges). Adjustments in the connectors can make up for "small" errors. ***
Q3: Can anybody supply me a picture of what a "factory" masthead looks like? I can tell that something at the top of my existing mast has broken but I can't really tell what it was. (See pics attatched)
***Someone with a V21 rigged same as yours would have to post a pic - yours is a masthead rig. V21's were all over the place in types of rig from the factory. The part that looks broken is the original main halyard cheek block - the sheave is gone. That's why someone hung the double block from your backstay tang, Also your Jib block is not original (thats a good thing).****
YMMV
How do I intend to use this boat?
Sunny light wind day sailing?
Weekend with overnights at a dock?
Weekend with overnights on anchor?
Rough water and high wind sailing (over 20 mph)?
Mini cruiser day and night sailing in all weather away from easy sources of assistance for extended periods (that's us)?
What am I willing to invest to make this boat better than it is...
etc.
***I take a stab at some of your questions below:***
questions:
An opportunity to acquire a mast sans boom and several rig components, some of which may be in better shape than some of what I have, has me scrutinizing my mast, boom and standing rig components ahead of plan which has me asking. I'll try to add some pics so you can see what I'm seeing and questioning.
****what size was the old boat that you would get the donor materials from - rigging components for a - say a Hunter 27 would be too heavy of gear for your boat. I recently bought a used mast and when I got it home I discovered that it was a battleship mast! Not really but the rigging and the mast were far far heavier than the Mac gear and I had to strip off everything to lighten it up. All of the big heavy stainless cables had to go along with all of the stainless fittings. I put on the gear from the venture including the stays and shrouds. Ventures are very light boats with light rigging..*****
Most of the shrouds I have are measuring as 1/8" dia (0.126" on my digital caliper) but the port lower shroud is coated with some kind of plastic and measures 0.176" dia -- suspecting this is a PO sub/emergency fix.
Q1: Is it reasonable to believe it should also be a 1/8" shroud as well ?
The forestay received with the boat also measures as 1/8" dia but looks like it was cannibalized from a clothesline as it's clearly not SS and the hex-nutted cable clamps are thoroughly rusted. There's also about a 4 feet of excess cable I'll call a "wild tail" that serves no apparent purpose.
***Mine measure: forestay and backstay= 1/8, all shrouds= 5/32. That backstay of yours is massive. My guess is that both your fore and back stays have been replaced overs the years on the cheap. Where exactly is this 4 feet of excess cable?***
Q2: Can anybody confirm that the correct diameter for the forestay is 1/8" ?
The backstay received measures as 0.191" dia with my caliper -- seems much larger than I expected.
***see Q1***
Q3: Again, can anyone tell me what the appropriate diameter for a backstay should be for my V21 ?
Some of the stays/shrouds I ave appear to be in decent shape, others definately need replacing.
***see also Q1. If the cable is questionable at all replace it. You do not want your mast to come down.***
Q4: Does anybody know of a source for what the "factory" lengths/specs of shrouds and stays should be if I should want to order replacements? I looked on a site called Maury Pro Racing that as a "get a free instant quote" tool that you put your boat make model in but it prompts for the "measured length of your existing component with turnbuckle half open". This is problematic on a couple of fronts. None of the shrouds/stays I have use turnbuckles, instead they're fitted with the multi-hole stay adjusters that MacGregor suggests are better than turnbuckles. Secondly, some of my components have enough bends and kinks in them that I'm unable to pull straight enough to trust any measurement I get.
***No turn buckle on the forestay??? Got a picture???
How I measured: Put mast up make it all plumb and level with boat as close as possible with all the connectors at MIDRANGE (If they are miss-sized they might be too loose/too tight). Use good judgement. Once everything looks to be at neutral mark all shrouds at the bottoms - the idea is to know the "bearing to bearing" distance on the cable. For you that would probably be the inside end of the cable loop/thimble. Take mast down disconnect all cables at bottom and stretch them out tight (use assistant) and measure with tape measure bearing to bearing or marks. Order that bearing to bearing lengths (thimble to thimble loop edges). Adjustments in the connectors can make up for "small" errors. ***
Q3: Can anybody supply me a picture of what a "factory" masthead looks like? I can tell that something at the top of my existing mast has broken but I can't really tell what it was. (See pics attatched)
***Someone with a V21 rigged same as yours would have to post a pic - yours is a masthead rig. V21's were all over the place in types of rig from the factory. The part that looks broken is the original main halyard cheek block - the sheave is gone. That's why someone hung the double block from your backstay tang, Also your Jib block is not original (thats a good thing).****
YMMV
My front and rear are .130 and side stays are .160 however my mast is 29' so if yours is shorter it may be smaller cables as well
lol
Thanks everybody, Some additional info that may help: The mast and rig components I'm picking up are from a Mac V21, hopefully pretty close to mine so probably no fittings for deck guns, RADAR etc. Didn't ask too many questions when it was offered -- you know -- not good to take a gift horse to the dentist! My existing mast measures 24' and is a teardrop shaped extrusion that I'll describe as 3" x 4" footprint and my boom is 10'. I thought the backstay was pretty huge -- even wondered if maybe it had gotten swapped with the forestay. I wasn't sure whether a 1/8" forestay was stout enough -- knew whatever it was the clothesline mod wouldn't be a keeper. The excess 4' tail I mentioned was at the bottom end of the forestay -- maybe PO knew a cable knot that subbed for a turnbuckle.
Probably can't tell from my pics but the jib block and the double block are both disintegrating. Is the main halyard cheek block a "standard" size such that I'd be able to readily find a replacement -- maybe something decent that would bolt up without swiss-cheesing the mast with new holes, i.e. could bolt up into existing holes (3-3/4" hole spacing, 4-1/4" mounting foot overall length, pop-riveted ? As for picture of forestay with no turnbuckle -- can't do it -- ain't there. Maybe it was a nice turnbuckle and he wanted a souvenir of the boat? Thanks again.
P.S. My lift is built and I'm getting ready to pick boat off trailer for keel and trailer refurb. Anybody have any keel-removal wisdom to share? (Besides don't get beneath it)
Probably can't tell from my pics but the jib block and the double block are both disintegrating. Is the main halyard cheek block a "standard" size such that I'd be able to readily find a replacement -- maybe something decent that would bolt up without swiss-cheesing the mast with new holes, i.e. could bolt up into existing holes (3-3/4" hole spacing, 4-1/4" mounting foot overall length, pop-riveted ? As for picture of forestay with no turnbuckle -- can't do it -- ain't there. Maybe it was a nice turnbuckle and he wanted a souvenir of the boat? Thanks again.
P.S. My lift is built and I'm getting ready to pick boat off trailer for keel and trailer refurb. Anybody have any keel-removal wisdom to share? (Besides don't get beneath it)
Lowe's also sales stainless cable in 1/8, 3/16 and 1/4 and the swag tool all pretty cheap but only carry aluminum swags so would need to find stainless swags elsewhere
As far as keel search the forum there's a video or two on here, I've watched it once, looks pretty straight forward, jack under the front while leaving cable attached, pull swivel bolt and lower front then crank down the back, hard part I guess is just moving the thing around once it's on the ground
With a bit of care and thought, it can be done fairly easily.
https://tomeshew.wordpress.com/2014/09/30/keel-removal/
Putting it back in place was even easier, after I made a trolley.
https://tomeshew.wordpress.com/2014/12/27/keel-re-installation-and-ruminations/
https://tomeshew.wordpress.com/2014/09/30/keel-removal/
Putting it back in place was even easier, after I made a trolley.
https://tomeshew.wordpress.com/2014/12/27/keel-re-installation-and-ruminations/
Thanks prob. Took a look. The bushing idea is great. Haven't gotten my keel out yet. Can you tell me what the thickness the bronze bushing is? Does it only occupy the thickness of the keel-trunk fiberglass? Is it epoxied in? I'm thinking a similar treatment might be a good solution to an elongated hole for my lock-down bolt. The one on the starboard side of the keel trunk is "stretched" about an extra 1/4". Probably will still work but as I'm pulling the keel and cleaning up the bottom and trunk, seems a good time to try to fix that issue too.
Don't remember the thickness; it was an off-the-shelf bushing from Lowe's, in their specialty hardware area. Yes, they're only in the keel trunk walls, and are epoxied in. I drilled out for the bushings a tiny bit oversize, cleaned all surfaces, applied epoxy (JB Weld) to both surfaces (wall and bushing), and once both bushings were in place, used my old pivot bolt to line them up while curing. Really pretty easy, and pleased with the results, as the holes in mine were slightly elongated too.
I just filled the holes with epoxy/filler paste and redrilled back to the right size.
The pivot bolt does not have a bushing, so I decided not to use a bushing for the lock bolt, if something does happen to the keel, I would prefer the weak point be as far above the water line as possible.
The pivot bolt does not have a bushing, so I decided not to use a bushing for the lock bolt, if something does happen to the keel, I would prefer the weak point be as far above the water line as possible.