New Club Member w/a question

[The Shadow Knows]

Hey guys,

Glad to be aboard.

I have a C30 Mk II with a universal 3m20a.
I went to run my engine today, got one click & nothing.
Everything else 12volt is running fine but my Admiral panel
does not turn on.

Has anyone had similar problems?
This is the first time I have had this problem.

I will hit the boat tomorrow with the elect. schematic but,
as this is a first for me, I hope it is a minor hiccup.

Thanks,
the shadow knows (remember the old radio show?)

 

[SG]

Do you know how to jump the solenoid?

 

[Bill Roosa]

On the starter solenoid there are three electrical connectors. two big ones with nuts and one of those has a large cable and a smaller one that is typically a spade terminal but can be other type of connector. The third one has a much smaller wire going to it.
The third smaller wire is the control wire and is what is connected to the ignition start circuit. the two big connectors are the power from the battery (the one with the cable) and the power (after crossing the solenoid contacts inside) to the starter motor.
Try the easy stuff first. try starting the motor by hitting the start button (start position on the ignition) repeadidly and quickly (or turning the key to start and on then back to start).
To diagnose the problem:
try taking off the control wire and putting it back on. If that fixes it then it was corrosion on the connection and you should clean and seal it. If that does not fix it try taking off the control wire and with a screwdriver short across the battery power terminal and control wire terminal on the solenoid. You will get some sparks as you touch the control terminal on the solenoid and that is normal and OK. BE CAREFUL as when the screwdriver shaft is in contact with the power from the battery you can get VERY HIGH CURRENTS if you ground any part of the shaft (like to just about any metal part it touches. Shorting between the battery power and control removes the ignition circuit from the equation so if that fixes it you have to trace the ignition circuit. NOTE: just because there is 12 volts in the wire does not mean that there will be 12 volts available once the current (and all the corroded things that turn volts to heat) starts flowing.
if she still does not start the problem is with the solenoid or the starter.

 

[LeslieTroyer]

If the panel is dead look for a fuse -usually around the starter.

Les

 

[The Shadow Knows]

Guys,
Thanks for your replies SG, Bill & Leslie.
I can tell you have electrical experience.

I should've started this thread with this added info.
I drained my fuel tank, cleaned it & changed my filters out.
After bleeding, on the third try my baby started right up as usual.
I ran her for 20 minutes @ differing RPM's. When I went to shut
her off, My volt meter needle was jumping back-n-forth near the low reading.
I forgot to bring my elec. tester. I thought if I was getting 14.2 Volts
@ the batteries, the problem might be with the gage on the panel.
I just didn't expect this.

I thought this was odd & decided to check it out the next day. I hit the
key for glow plugs & fuel pump & heard 1 click then nothing. It was
very hot & humid so, I decided to fight this battle on Monday.

I'm pretty good with electrical troubleshooting & will also go thru the steps you guys
suggested in checking fuses starter/solenoid/alternator.

Film @ eleven.

TS

 

[Bill Roosa]

You have air in the lines. A draconian following of the bleeding procedures is not optional. Tank to injector chase the air out.

 

[SG]

Bill, if the engine won't turn over, what is the cause and effect to the air in the fuel line to the injector pump?

 

[The Shadow Knows]

Bill,

It's not a problem with fuel but, an electrical glitch.
Elec. schematic in-hand tomorrow & I'll find the culprit.
thanks,

TS

 

[SG]

The "trigger" to the solenoid from the starter key or "button" usually has a surprisingly high threshold. Yanmar's (especially the bigger ones on sailboats) and others often have a slight voltage loss that essentially will not fire-off the solenoid. The best fix, if that's it, is a relay that that then closes a circuit that is much more directly from the batteries. The second line of attack is usually a bad solenoid, then a bad starter (less often), or some issue with the wiring from the engine control panel.

The other observation: remember that voltage that you can read (especially with a high load piece of equipment) doesn't mean you can get AMPs through the circuit.

 

[Jimd333]

I have a similar, no start situation. I shut the engine down at the dock, came back a couple of hours later and the engine wouldn't crank. Also, the fuel guage pegs to empty when start switch is turned to crank. When turning on glow plug switch, the fuel guage also rapidly flops over to the left pegs and there is no cranking. I've changed the starter, solenoid and starter switch, all to no avail. I believe there is corrosion in the start panel causing a ground fault (short). Not sure how to further troubleshoot the problem. What finally fixed your problem?
Jim, O'day 28, Universal M15

 

[The Shadow Knows]

Jim,
I've been sidetracked this week but going to the boat today for troubleshooting.
I'll let you know what I find, as there are similarities in our problems.

Maybe film @ 11:00

 

[The Shadow Knows]

I've been out of town with family medical issues but, I am back.

I went to the boat today. Put the key on accessory & the panel came on line.
I then held the key to heat glow plugs & start the fuel solenoid. Here's what happened.
Last month working alone, there was much construction going on next door. Constant noise but today,
it was silent.

As I held the key to kick glow & fuel on, I heard a distinctive click in the area of my starter/solenoid. This was strange as I did testing on both the starter/solenoid using a meter & with a remote starter. Everything checked out then. But, I didn't hear the click as the panel went dead because of the noise.

I do all my own A/C D/C work both at home & boat so, normally, I don't have problems for I know what I am doing.
Herein lies the conundrum. My problem is intermittent. One time, the panel lights up & the engine will start. The next time however, the panel will go dead with the click noise. Doing it over has the same results. I can do the same thing the next day & my engine may start. If I shut er down then try to restart, the panel again goes dead, WTF?

Like I said it's intermittent & a guessing game at this point.
Me, I'm now suspecting it is the starter/solenoid but if so, what is shutting down my panel? And if this is
a result of them being bad, why would that kill my panel power?

Has anyone had a similar problem & if so, did you find the culprit?

Thanks guys,

 

[SG]

Refresh my memory:
Why does the key for the glowplug generate and "CLICK"?
If you have a Yanmar panel like the one on mine (or Pathfinder, a/k/a VW, engine, or some others), they don't have a separate glow plug. They just start the starter and the glow plug starts up in the same action. The "noise" from the alarm has nothing to do with the glow plug (I believe).

Other engines have has a key, then a heat glow plug, then a start engine setting; and, sometimes they have buttons that perform those functions.

Please explain what you have. Or give us a picture of the panel and tell us what engine your C30 has.

Simplistically, my suspicion is that you have an issue with the voltage loss to the solenoid. You can see the thread on that covered elsewhere recently (and before) by searching through that subject here.

There are other possibilities, but let's go through this a bit more systematically.

If the engine turns over, then it's different set of issues (which would immediately look at fuel supply to the diesel). If the engine won't turn-over, then that's a different FIRST issue.

 

[jviss]

Replace the keyswitch.

 

[The Shadow Knows]

Jv,

I did that, I also changed the fuel solenoid & the 20 amp capacitor on the fuel solenoid.
Running thru the checks, everything shows fine.

There's something else going on here.
What I don't understand is what is shutting down my engine control panel.
I'm dying to get my boat out & I cannot remember being this befuddled before.

I'll let you guys know when I know.

Thanks for the input guys............

 

[jviss]

I think the keyswitch is faulty, based on what you've said about intermittencies, etc.

 

[SG]

Why is there a fuel solenoid? The solenoid is usually attached to the starter circuit.

 

[The Shadow Knows]

Sg,

Universals have a separate fuel solenoid for the fuel pump.

JV,
I've replaced the ignition switch but the weird problem is the same.

Losing my sister, I just wanna go sailing

 

[SG]

Sorry for your loss.

 

[The Shadow Knows]

SG,

Thanks pal...........