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Need your opinion. Help me spend my money

Discussion in 'Bigger Boats' started by dennisv, Jan 5, 2019. Add this thread to a FAQ

  1. glaufman

    glaufman

    Joined May 23, 2016
    107 posts, 21 likes
    O'Day 1984 23
    US Island Park, NY
    +10
     


  2. glaufman

    glaufman

    Joined May 23, 2016
    107 posts, 21 likes
    O'Day 1984 23
    US Island Park, NY
    Seriously... Look at the sails... If u upgrade hem, use the new ones only for the racing to preserve them, .use the old for just toolig around... Try the winchers... They were a great compromise solution for me...
     


  3. Joe

    Joe

    Joined Jun 1, 2004
    6,609 posts, 395 likes
    Catalina 27
    US Mission Bay, San Diego
    If you have to strip the line off the drum when it fills up.... it isn't "self tailing"... Now.... "self holding" could be a good description of the rubber "wincher" device.... but more than half a turn you'll have to peel off the line with your free hand, or stop grinding and use that hand to free it up.
    The wincher has jaw cleats that allow you to secure the line, just like a regular self tailor... the underside is ribbed... which is suppose to help pull the tail off the loaded drum... but it doesn't really work because the gripper jaws will not release the line without the operator pulling the line out.... it's very frustrating and hugely inefficient.

    So..... how does one improve his single handing capacity without investing a couple thousand for self tailing winches???? simple.... get an auto/tiller pilot, or wheel/tiller lock if you're short of funds, set your course, engage the steering device and take your damn time using both hands to trim up that headsail.
    Impulse aug 04 022.jpg
     


    jssailem likes this.
  4. kappykaplan

    kappykaplan

    Joined May 1, 2011
    898 posts, 159 likes
    Pearson 37
    US Lusby MD
    :plus:
     


  5. dennisv

    dennisv

    Joined Nov 30, 2009
    51 posts, 8 likes
    Oday 28
    US Lake Michigan
    Sorry everyone, been spending time looking online at new sails. Been able to get a few quotes from the brand name suppliers, and have pulled quotes (pricing online) for the discount suppliers (National Supply and Sail Warehouse). The discount suppliers are substantially less. Starting to look at reviews now.

    I have looked at ebay for used winches. Seems winches hold their price well, so I'm not seeing any super bargains. Nothing that has made me want to jump on them. I've heard that West Marine has a "Buy one-get one free" winch sale in March. I know that sounds to good to be true, but worth waiting for to see. I've even spent time looking on Craigslist, concentrating on East Coast states that might have newer salvage boats (boats likely to have self-tailing winches). I'll be doing more reading on winchers too. Do they make a standard winch a self-tailer, no. Are they helpful, yes. Just need more info on them.
     


  6. Joe

    Joe

    Joined Jun 1, 2004
    6,609 posts, 395 likes
    Catalina 27
    US Mission Bay, San Diego
    I bought 2 pair of winches from WM during the Lewmar bogo(2 for 1) promotion, they were also having a triple advantage rewards promo.. so... even though I didn't really need them, cause the old barlow 2 speed standards were in fine condition, I had the money and just couldn't resist. So... a pair of 2 speed ST Lewmar 30's, and a pair of single speed ST Lewmar 15's, retail about $3500, I paid $1700 and I got 12%($200) back via the advantage rewards... Net cost around 1500!!! You'll never find a deal like that on ebay or craig's list.
    Go to your local WM and ask them when the next Lewmar promo will be, and if there will be WM advantage promo around the same time... then make sure you have a gold membership .... you gotta be wise... sometimes buying stuff on ebay or craigs list cost more than from a legitimate vendor.
     


    Parsons likes this.
  7. agprice22

    agprice22

    Joined Aug 3, 2012
    2,227 posts, 475 likes
    Performance Cruising Telstar 28
    US Watkins Glen
    Do not forget to shop SBO!
     


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  8. dennisv

    dennisv

    Joined Nov 30, 2009
    51 posts, 8 likes
    Oday 28
    US Lake Michigan
    Joe,
    Sound like the WM "2for" is the real deal. I noticed you bought 2 Lewmar 30ST. Your bio mentions a Catalina 27. Were the 30ST for the Catalina 27? Reason for asking. Lewmar lists 30ST for a 28 foot boat, but it is the upper limit. In walking some of the local marina's I've seen 27/28 footer with both 30ST and 40ST. The 40ST were very common on Catalina 27's. I know Catalina keeps an eye on cost and I'm sure they bought 40ST's and used them on 27's ,28's, 30's, and 31's. How have your 30ST's worked on the Catalina 27. Are they strong enough? I know bigger is better, but there is a budget involved.
     


  9. supercub

    supercub

    Joined May 14, 2012
    56 posts, 2 likes
    Oday 25 Shoal draft
    US Mystic
    Save your money, boats are the biggest money grabbers out there! Just keep it minimal because you wont get your money back when you go to sell it.
     


  10. jssailem

    jssailem

    Joined Oct 22, 2014
    7,825 posts, 3,136 likes
    CAL 35 Cruiser
    US Salem, Moored Port Everett WA
    That is a good but strong statement.

    Is it always about getting your money back out of a hobby you choose to enjoy?

    I bought a guitar once. I do not think I could sell it for what I paid for it. I do enjoy playing it.
     


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  11. Joe

    Joe

    Joined Jun 1, 2004
    6,609 posts, 395 likes
    Catalina 27
    US Mission Bay, San Diego
    The 30's are perfect for my boat.... I you were racing in big air with an oversized genoa... perhaps there would be value in upsizing to a 40... They're not gonna break. If you need extra power, you shift to a longer winch handle. The gear ratios on my Lewmar 30's are 2:1 and 3.8:1. compare to the old barlow;s which were 1;1 and 3;1.... The barlows worked faster and I had a 10" palm handle winch for more power. I've found the Lewmar's lower gearing makes it slower operating and the power is more than I normally need, so I've invested in an 8" palm grip winch handle... if they made a 5 or a 6" I'd use that.

    I would be surprised to see the 40's on a stock Catalina 27 or 270. The reality is that ordering a new boat entails choosing many, many options. Perhaps the larger winches were that....
    The brochure's I've looked at for the 270 shows just a set of primaries on the cabin top. go figure. My 27 has 6.... two halyard winches mounted on cabin, the two primaries and also two standard Lewmar 7's as secondaries also mounted on the coaming. The other Cat 27's on my dock, there are 6, all have different winch configurations... NONE have a #40 size winch.
     


  12. dennisv

    dennisv

    Joined Nov 30, 2009
    51 posts, 8 likes
    Oday 28
    US Lake Michigan
    jssailem,
    Thanks for that reply. I was kind of set back by supercub post. Not so much what he said, because it is absolutely true, but it was a surprise to see it on a boat forum. Most people here love their boats. When people tell me they have always wanted one, but just couldn't justify it, I respond "If you spent 5 minutes trying to justify a boat, you have wasted 5 minutes of your life. You either want one or you don't. You can't justify them.

    I've had a boat for the last 38 years of my life. Here is what I've gotten.....pinic's, BBQ's, grown sons and daughters coming back to sail, both have had buddy weekends, daughter have had girlfriend weekends at the boat, my son-in-law brings his friends for buddy weekends, races, swim, boy's weekends, girls weekends, brothers weekend, grandkids at the marina, bycling with the kids, biking with adults, swimming at the marina, swimming off the boat in Lake Michigan, swimming at the beach, swimming at the beach with the boat anchored just off shore, cruises to the next port for dinner, weekend cruises to other ports. I could go on and on. Supercub is correct, this has been a expensive hobby for sure, but boy has it given back.........
     


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  13. dennisv

    dennisv

    Joined Nov 30, 2009
    51 posts, 8 likes
    Oday 28
    US Lake Michigan
    Joe,
    Thanks for the feedback. Exactly what I was hoping to hear. 30's are cheaper than 40"s.

    I had a 1986 Catalina 27TR and it had Lewmar 40's. There were 6 Catalina 27's in my marina. 4-of-the-6 are 1985's/1986's all with Lewmar 40ST's. The other are older models with non-ST winches.
     


  14. agprice22

    agprice22

    Joined Aug 3, 2012
    2,227 posts, 475 likes
    Performance Cruising Telstar 28
    US Watkins Glen
    If you are sailing to get your money back, sell your boat now. It is worth less every day, so cut your loss. Yes, BOAT means Break Out Another Thousand. I do it happily because my boat is an act of love for myself. It supports my desire to grow, learn, venture, teach, etc. We can set limits. But we can also spend judiciously. New sails to replace 30 year old sails is a judicious move for someone who is interested in reaping the reward.
     


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  15. FDL S2

    FDL S2

    Joined Jun 29, 2014
    255 posts, 115 likes
    S2 7.3
    US Fond du Lac
    Good answer. That was one of two head scratcher comments in this thread.

    Spend the money that allows you to get the most enjoyment out of your hobby. My advice is to get a new sail or sails and if you have enough money left in your budget get the self tailers.

    I took my main in to get it checked out by a local sailmaker. There are a few things that need to be fixed and he's going to give me a quote on those and a condition report on the sail. I think it's in decent shape, but I'll see what he comes back with.
     


    jssailem likes this.
  16. supercub

    supercub

    Joined May 14, 2012
    56 posts, 2 likes
    Oday 25 Shoal draft
    US Mystic
    Spending what you need to get the most enjoyment is my point I guess. I have always had boats that were older, that I fixed up and enjoyed for awhile, and then sold to get something else for a new purpose or forced to sell for some unexpected reason. I came to realize through the sale process that upgrades or add-ons that I had done were not priorities for other people, or they did not recognize the value of the upgrade from looking at the boat firsthand.
    In the process of choosing my current Oday 25, I looked at a bunch of boats and read a bunch of ads describing all of the money that people have put into them and their expectations for return of investments. Some quick math showed that the return would only be a small fraction of investment. If money was no object then fine, I would add the best to my boat bow to stern.
     


  17. agprice22

    agprice22

    Joined Aug 3, 2012
    2,227 posts, 475 likes
    Performance Cruising Telstar 28
    US Watkins Glen
    So true! We generally know that we do not get our money back from most upgrades, if not all. In fact, I have shown previous owners the work I would have to do to REMOVE their upgrades that were of no interest to me or were out of date, and therefore diminished the value of a boat for me. So, you are correct, spending judiciously is important. Now there are upgrades you can take with you, and I have negotiated having electronics removed for a sale when the owner was insistent on valuing them.
    You are right, money is an object of concern for the vast majority of us.
    You make a good point here. I think there are qualities on a boat for which I look, and new sails and upgraded winches are near the top after hull, deck, motor, and rigging.
     


  18. TomY

    TomY Alden Forum Moderator

    Joined Jun 22, 2004
    1,456 posts, 1,147 likes
    Alden 38' Challenger yawl
    US Rockport Harbor
    #1 place to spend money on a sailboat.
    Sails and telltales (1 of 1).jpg

    #2 place for me, is to fix what's broken.

    #3 Maintain what's there (if it's made it this long, it's probably better than a new replacement).

    After I owned my old boat for 8 or so years, I had to do an insurance value survey. Much to my embarrassment, it went down in value... :)

    But when I looked around at other similar boats - for sale - that had new everything, I realized I'd saved money, a lot of money.

    The $$ spent is gone as soon as the check clears, make sure you enjoy the return on what you buy for your boat.
     


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  19. supercub

    supercub

    Joined May 14, 2012
    56 posts, 2 likes
    Oday 25 Shoal draft
    US Mystic
    I brought a new 9.9 for my $2000.00 boat, the scale economy may look a little tipped there, but to have a dependable engine is important. I sold the old one for $600.00. Found a good deal on an almost new autopilot. Brought a portable chart gps. Pretty much follow TomY and maintain things. We made our own cushions. I would like to have a better jib but I can wait until a good deal pops up on one.
     



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