Need source for shore power cord

Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
My new Jeanneau is set up just like Dr. D - two 30 amp circuits, with two 50 amp connectors in the cockpit. The boat came with custom cables that had 30 amp sockets shore side and 50 amp at the boat. ... - what if someone plugs in a 50 amp shore power cable? I'm not an electrician, but my understanding is that the circuit will only draw 30 amps, and the breaker will trip if a short or other cause creates a draw greater than 30 amps. I don't see the difference between that and plugging a 30 amp shore power cable into a 50 amp pedestal with an adapter. ....
You got one thing right-you're not an electrician it sounds like. Overloading a 30-amp breaker will blow the shore breaker. DUH. Plug a 30-amp cord/connecter into a 50 amp dock supply and with an over-30 load, the 30 will melt and/or short out and eventually blow the SP 50 breaker. And maybe fire up.
Sailbaum or DD needs to gets some answers to some questions before jumping to complain.
1. What size is the cable of the cords in use. 10-3? Or 6-3?
2. What is the wiring inside the boat from input recepticle to AC main breaker panel?
3. What is the breaker rating of the master breaker that should be within 10 feet of the input recepticle?
 
May 17, 2004
5,032
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
Plug a 30-amp cord/connecter into a 50 amp dock supply and with an over-30 load, the 30 will melt and/or short out and eventually blow the SP 50 breaker.
I don't think anyone is suggesting to plug a 30 amp cord into a 50 amp supply. That would take a different type of adapter than anyone has mentioned. As I see it, everything is still safe with the configuration described. There are basically 2 possibilities -
(1) Plug 30A cord into the dock, with a 50A female end or adapter attached. Plug the 50A female end into the boat. Whether the boat breaker is 30A or 50A shouldn't matter, because if you draw over 30 the dockside breaker will pop before anything goes wrong.
(2) Use a 50A cord from dock to boat. Boat breaker, whether 30A or 50A will pop before any damage is done to the plugs or cord.

I agree it's worth checking the rating on the breaker inside the boat, just to see whether the boat is rated to use the whole 50, or if the builder just put a 50A connector in a 30A line, but as far as I can tell it should be safe either way. Presumably the builder didn't put a 50A breaker on and use wiring rated for 30.
 
Jan 24, 2013
37
Beneteau 49 Norfolk
You got one thing right-you're not an electrician it sounds like. Overloading a 30-amp breaker will blow the shore breaker. DUH. Plug a 30-amp cord/connecter into a 50 amp dock supply and with an over-30 load, the 30 will melt and/or short out and eventually blow the SP 50 breaker. And maybe fire up.
Sailbaum or DD needs to gets some answers to some questions before jumping to complain.
1. What size is the cable of the cords in use. 10-3? Or 6-3?
2. What is the wiring inside the boat from input recepticle to AC main breaker panel?
3. What is the breaker rating of the master breaker that should be within 10 feet of the input recepticle?

Let me clarify my point. As someone mentioned, because I have a 50amp connector on the boat, it is possible for someone to unwittingly take a normal 50 amp cable and plug it into a 50 amp pedestal and then to the boat.

The question is, would that be inherently more dangerous than someone putting a 50 to 30 adapter on a 50 amp pedestal and running a 30 amp cord to a 30 amp boat. A practice that I have seen done.

I "think" not because the 30 amp cable in scenario two would be more likely to melt because (as you point out) the 50amp pedestal breaker would not trip at an 40amp overload and would instead subject the cable to an overload until the boat breaker trips.

Good question on the cable - I'm not sure how to check without cutting it open. From weight and size it feels like 6/3 but I'm not sure.
The breaker on the boat (which is about 3 inches from the plug) is 30amp (but you can bet I will doublecheck). I don't know the wire size and will investigate.
 
Jan 19, 2010
1,169
Catalina 34 Casco Bay
It is the same type of feed line used by RVs. Search online for RV shore power cords... BUT, why don't you keep the 50, coil and velcro it. You'll most surely find a dock at some point with a 49' travel to the power point.
 
Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
Most cords would have the wire size embossed into the jacket. It is possible the 30 cord could melt without tripping the SP 50 as long as there are not wires (of any source) touching. I'm not gonna test that theory, though.
 

Dr. D

.
Nov 3, 2018
272
Beneteau Oceanis 35.1 Herrington Harbour North
I was on the boat today and I took a picture of the breaker box on the boat. There are a pair (one for the AC/heat and the other for the rest of the electric needs) of GE breakers marked "40A 30mA 240~" and "FPEAU" and "EPC 452". A search of that leads me to a 300 page manual "Modular DIN-rail devices and residential enclosures."

sailme88: Yes, I am going to keep the long cords for when I am at another marina with no convenient power source. At my home slip a pair of 25' cables will work and be less weight to move around.
 
Aug 22, 2017
1,609
Hunter 26.5 West Palm Beach
Two 50A boat receptacles means he is set up for 100A service - highly unlikely. His problem is that some genius decided to put two 50A receptacles on the boat end for two 30A boat service circuits. Which leaves him at risk that some future genius will connect 50A service to one or the other 30A circuits. At which point much drama ensues. You don’t remedy this situation with adapters, you wire the boat correctly...
Maybe you caught a detail or two that I missed. Why are you saying that his boat is not wired correctly? Why are you saying that it is highly unlikely that the boat is wired with a pair of 50 amp circuits?

I have no idea what equipment he has on board. If he has multiple AC units or other high load equipment, maybe a pair of 50's would be appropriate. I would call that somewhat uncommon, but I would not call it highly unlikely unless I had some reason to believe that he did not have a lot of electrical gear on board.

Please fill me in if you caught something that I missed.

Thanks,
Jim
 
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Gunni

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Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
Maybe you caught a detail or two that I missed. Why are you saying that his boat is not wired correctly? Why are you saying that it is highly unlikely that the boat is wired with a pair of 50 amp circuits?
Why am I saying this? Because I have been fooling around with sailboats for 40 years and have never seen or heard of a 35’ sailboat with 100A service (2 x 50A). Ever.

His boat wiring is not sized for 50 Amp service yet he has 50A receptacles for his shore cord. Apparently the dealer jury-rigged him some custom cords by putting 50A plug ends on a 30A cord. All he needs is some uninformed yard worker to connect 6 gauge 50A service to a boat wired with 12 gauge wire and he has a safety concern. Not hard to fix, just demand that the dealer fix it and install 30A receptacles on the boat end. That also ends the quixotic effort to find a new jury-rigged cord set.
 
May 17, 2004
5,032
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
His boat wiring is not sized for 50 Amp service
How do you know? I assume (maybe incorrectly, but let's give the benefit of the doubt) that the builder would install breakers appropriate to the wiring size. As long as the breaker capacity is less than or equal to the capacity of all the other parts, everything should be safe.

Now, his breaker does appear to be marked as 40A, which makes the use of a 30A shore cable iffy, but that's a whole other thing than what you're talking about with issues on the boat itself.
 

Gunni

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Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
Let me ask you David, would you connect 50A service to a boat with 40A circuit breakers? Or more specifically, would you want the potential of someone connecting 50A service to your boat because that is what you have for service receptacles?
 
May 17, 2004
5,032
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
Ultimately it's all powered by a source capable of providing way more than 50A anyway. What you're basically doing by connecting that boat to 50A service is reducing the layers of defense by 1. You still have the 40A breakers, plus another one or two sets of breakers closer to the appliances. The only thing you're giving up is a breaker on shore. Not ideal, but not totally unprotected either.

To answer your question more directly - I wouldn't want to be connected to 50A service, but given the other countermeasures in place I might take the risk of that happening accidentally if it makes things much more convenient in other ways. Admittedly the most elegant solution is probably just to get the receptacles and 40A breakers all switched out to 30A stuff, but if the dealer won't do that then I'd personally be comfortable making due.
 
Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
Guys, Gunni especially, you're barking at the moon. DD has not answered what the shore cable size is, the size of the wire from the inlet to the panel with the circuit breakers. At least he came up with the amps of the main boat breakers. Until we know the facts, go have a beer.

We've probably all been to marinas with only 50 shore power outlets. If you don't have an adapter for 30 cords, and the marina does not have one to lend, you're in dutch.
AND, Gunni, just because you've never seen it, does not mean it does not exist. AND, Gunni, the dealer is not reposible for a shore power cord. AND, Gunni, maybe the cord is a 50 with a 30 plug for SP(not likely, though). Neither West nor the Marinco catalog show a 50/30 cable- for a reason, but that's not to say spome owner could have made mods.
 
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Gunni

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Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
Ron;
  1. Some owner did not make the mods, dealers sold these guys boats with this wacked shore power receptacle set up. A boat surveyor would have flagged it.
  2. The dealer is responsible for EVERYTHING about my new boat if he wants my purchase money. Otherwise I go buy my boat from someone else.
You take a look at this shore cord configuration and tell them to fix it, and call when it is right. I plan to bring it up with one of the guys at AYS next time I run into them.
 
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Sep 15, 2013
707
Catalina 270 Baltimore
I am late to this party. The first thing that comes to my mind is what are the designed loads for each of the 2 circuits in the boat? Were they designed to be 30A each or 50A each? The answer would affect many factors including wire size, breakers,etc. If they were designed at 30A then why would the designers put a 50A jack on board? If they were designed at 50A then at least the dealer should have done a lot more than throw you a pair of 50A to 30A cords. Your dealer should have at least explained what devices were on what circuit and recommended economy measures to take when you have to be on a 30A supply to keep you from tripping breakers at the dock. There is a serious disconnect here. I am assuming this is a brand new boat that cost a lot of money. I would not be happy (read insanely pissed). I would not even try to be technical. I would go back to the dealer and demand a resolution or at the very least much more of an explanation than you received. Also I do not know how this could be ABYC approved. This is my .02.
 

Dr. D

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Nov 3, 2018
272
Beneteau Oceanis 35.1 Herrington Harbour North
Does it look like https://www.ebay.com/itm/GE-Modular...C-Type-Double-Pole-RCCB-Un-used-/141987423446? If so, that's a 240V breaker. I'll defer to the experts on whether a 240V breaker is acceptable in a 120V circuit, but it's not what I would expect to find. Was your boat built in the US or Europe?
The breakers are very similar to that, though they are double pole double throw. It is a new Beneteau built in SC.

Concerning one topic tossed about here: I don't believe Beneteau is selling boats that are unsafe, nor is AYS. What I do believe is Beneteau is reducing costs by having the same wiring on as many models as possible and configuring them to reduce production costs. For example, the boat has two shore power connections, but I seriously doubt even with the Air/heat it would draw over 30 A. So the base boat has one AC circuit for the base boat. Add the Air/heat and another circuit is added so the base AC circuit is never touched. Also, I believe the 240V breakers and other equipment is used that can be used following all applicable codes in US and Europe.

As most US marinas have 30 A sources, Beneteau supplies 30 A fittings on the shore end. All I want are shorter cords.
 
Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
I am late to this party. I would go back to the dealer and demand a resolution or at the very least much more of an explanation than you received. Also I do not know how this could be ABYC approved. This is my .02.
Bawlmer, back in posts 21 and 33 I asked for information we MUST have. As we know, a chain is only AS STRONG AS ITS WEAKEST LINK. I have two power cord pieces right here... What looks like a factory-made 30/50 pigtail is a bit over 3/4 inch. The 30 is 5/8, maybe 21/32. Depending on who makes the SP cord, the 50 is about 2.2 times the weight of the 30.
 
Sep 15, 2013
707
Catalina 270 Baltimore
Bawlmer, back in posts 21 and 33 I asked for information we MUST have. As we know, a chain is only AS STRONG AS ITS WEAKEST LINK. I have two power cord pieces right here... What looks like a factory-made 30/50 pigtail is a bit over 3/4 inch. The 30 is 5/8, maybe 21/32. Depending on who makes the SP cord, the 50 is about 2.2 times the weight of the 30.
I Agree with all of your points. This however is a brand new boat and the dealer is the responsible party here, at least to provide clarification, which, judging from the thread has not been adequately provided. If this was a "new to me" boat then all of the research suggested on this thread would be valid. It is not and therefore should not be conducted. The only action should be to go back to the dealer and have him address the issue. In all honesty the research would be fun but not for a BRAND NEW boat.
 
Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
I Agree with all of your points...If this was a "new to me" boat then all of the research suggested on this thread would be valid. It is not and therefore should not be conducted. The only action should be to go back to the dealer and have him address the issue. In all honesty the research would be fun but not for a BRAND NEW boat.
Right, but in an earlier post the dealer said the boats come that way. The owner has not proven there is ANYTHING done wrong. He should have the owners manual with all wire specs included. He has not proven anything is not wired to spec. So far, with a 40 main breaker with a 30 connector fused at 30 on the dock the system is a go as far as I can see. The only thing I do see, the input receptical is oversized, but when has anyone every complaind about that?
 

Gunni

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Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
The only thing I do see, the input receptical is oversized, but when has anyone every complaind about that?
Well, I guess I’m the one complaining about it! I wouldn’t want to even tempt someone to hook up 50A service to my 30A wired boat, and I would be complaining the whole time I was cutting the end off perfectly good shore cords and having to buy custom end plugs.