Need help with refinishing deck plan

[jmczzz]

Double trouble keel hangers

double crap! I test fitted the new hangers and pin in the keel and jacked it up to the trunk.
These new hangers are way to wide. I have read they are that way to "allow custom fitting" but gezus they need 5/8" taken of each one. What did I do get the wrong thing or did some ass design in a big problem? How in the triple hell am I gonna cut that much off these things by hand and keep them square?
James

 

[hawk232]

seems right. I kept my keel thin when I rebuilt it for this purpose. had to trim 0.424" off of each one yesterday to make them fit!

 

[CloudDiver]

James, after i built my keel up with the new epoxy I also had to shave off some of the hangers. I used my table sander with a 40 grit pad, but I only had to take 1/8 to 3/16 inch off each side. It was no fun, took several passes, the bronze would heat up quick, and at the end of the day I ended up with a flake of bronze in my eye that had to be surgically removed. That was a really crappy weekend. If you have to remove 5/8" I would see if you can find a buddy who has a mill, safest and most accurate way to do it. Second to that, a big table sander with a 12 inch drum and fence to hold push the hanger square. My drum is only 8 inches, thats only good if you need to just shave off a little or clean up.
I'd measure really carefully and don't take off too much!

 

[jmczzz]

Hey,
The machine shop behind the auto parts store guy said he would cut them down the 5/8" for $30. I have checked and rechecked the measurements so believe this will work. Plus I want to use some of those milk carton washers that won the Gene Neill award.
That is one of the advantages of living in this Ozark rural area, a quality machinist and a friend. He knows the block milling specs on just about every farm tractor ever built.
James

 

[CloudDiver]

Great news James, I'm glad you found a machinist who could do it at a fair price (more than fair). The mill is the safest and most accurate way.

Hey,
The machine shop behind the auto parts store guy said he would cut them down the 5/8" for $30. I have checked and rechecked the measurements so believe this will work. Plus I want to use some of those milk carton washers that won the Gene Neill award.
That is one of the advantages of living in this Ozark rural area, a quality machinist and a friend. He knows the block milling specs on just about every farm tractor ever built.
James

 

[Nahart51]

I cut mine with a Harbor Freight grinder using a cutting wheel. Took about 10 minutes. Really soft metal.

 

[jmczzz]

My grinder is on its last grind. It came from Harbor F. but I’ve worn it out after 10 or so years sharpening the bush hog, tools and such. I think the machinist will be accurate and for 30 bucks I cannot buy a new grinder and wheels.
I admire you for your D I Y however.
I love your area of La. I worked around there a lot and ran boats during the oil boom. I have family in Lafayette. And had my heart broken in Lake Charles, Sulfur, Crowley, New Iberia and several other times by those beautiful Cajun ladies. Love that Zydeco...
James

 

[spartacus99]

How did you get the keel off? Isn't it like 500lbs? Is there a rig or something you use? I looked at my keel and can see some rust spots where the paint is gone.

 

[jmczzz]

It is a process. I would check it out while on the trailer. Get under there and scrape down to the bare metal underneath with a screwdriver or hammer and chisel. Unless it looks like it may be really rusty under the remaining paint and on the top areas where you can't reach just touch it up in place.
If you determine it needs a complete rework then go for it. Look at the threads on here; “when something little turns in to something more by hawk232”, “Winter Restoration of 1981 C-22 Swing Keel #10580 by CloudDiver” and the complete process at “Refinish your swing keel for best performance by $tingy Sailor”. If you decide to go for the major job and drop the keel. There are several options on how to proceed. The more pro approach or like me the D I Y back yard way. If you have to go my way(the back yard method) let me know and I'll tell you step by step how I have done it 3 times on 3 different model swing keel boats.
Do some research per the above first, and then you'll know what is envolved and where to start?
James

 

[spartacus99]

Thanks for the direction brother!

 

[jmczzz]

spartacus99
Here are some quotes from others that you should consider, re: keel restore.
Hawk232,” as usual, my opinion differs from the majority... your keel looks pretty awesome compared to most! unless you are planning to keep the boat for a REALLY long time I think I would just stick it back in there as is. most people seem to get blasting for ~$100, mine was $240. it takes a TON of filler to get it back in shape, figure at least a gallon of epoxy, then you have to barrier coat and paint it!”…” even left untouched, if the pin hole and eye bolt are structurally sound, you will be in no danger with your plans. lets face it, those are very short term plans! these keels have been around a LONG time with ALOT less protection than most of us are now giving them. some of them look pretty rough (mine included) but they are 40 years old!!! your plans are only in the next year or two!

folks act like at the first sign of rust the keel is going to fall off and $1000 worth of work needs to be done or you will die, its simply not true. (please note that this is not aimed at ANYONE in this thread, just the general "feel" of all the keel threads that I have been a part of)

DavidCG,” I'm with hawk -- that keel looks in amazingly good shape. Unless there is some major issue that we are not seeing in the photos, I'd put it back just the way it is.

And my thoughts and pics at my post on this thread #26.
James

 

[$tingy Sailor]

Good advise from James, there. It's kind of like doing a major remodel on your house. Your return on investment takes a LONG time unless it increases your selling price, which is almost never the case with sailboats.

As I said at the end of my final blog post after investing a lot of time and money in my keel:

Considering its non-critical nature and the price to have it done by a boatyard compared to the value of the average trailerable sailboat, if you’re not going to do it yourself, you might as well not do it at all and put the savings to better use elsewhere.

You can take that one step farther and decide to not even do it yourself. Although, if you expect to own the boat for a long time or if you have major mechanical problems, it's a good idea to do it.

 

[Nahart51]

My grinder is on its last grind. It came from Harbor F. but I’ve worn it out after 10 or so years sharpening the bush hog, tools and such. I think the machinist will be accurate and for 30 bucks I cannot buy a new grinder and wheels. I admire you for your D I Y however. I love your area of La. I worked around there a lot and ran boats during the oil boom. I have family in Lafayette. And had my heart broken in Lake Charles, Sulfur, Crowley, New Iberia and several other times by those beautiful Cajun ladies. Love that Zydeco... James

I'm in Carencro and work for Chevron In Lafayette. Those Cajun Ladies will do that to you.

 

[Gene Neill]

I'm in Carencro and work for Chevron In Lafayette. Those Cajun Ladies will do that to you.

I lived in Lafayette once upon a time, and worked for American Oilfield Divers, out of Broussard. BIG plus one for those Cajun girls!!:dance:

 

[hawk232]

I lived in Lafayette once upon a time, and worked for American Oilfield Divers, out of Broussard. BIG plus one for those Cajun girls!!:dance:

that's why I had to marry one while there and import her to fl!!!


actually, we are both from LA. me from Baton Rouge, her from New Orleans

 

[ShotgunSlim]

that's why I had to marry one while there and import her to fl!!!


actually, we are both from LA. me from Baton Rouge, her from New Orleans

May as well add me to the list while we're at it: I moved to Bogalusa right out of college for about a year working for a logging contractor. I never made it any farther west than Hammond at the time and when the job played out, I ended moving to where I am now. While I didn't get my heart broken, I definitely left a piece of it out there with someone.

 

[jmczzz]

I am gonna get to the deck refinish...some day.

I got the keel in position, a coat of bottom paint on it and the bottom. I sanded the whole bottom with a palm sander and 60 grit to knock off all the lose stuff and went down to gel coat in places that had been left rough by many coat of bottom paint that had chipped I applied a barrier coat to those spots. I'll put a second coat of bottom paint on early in the morn then go pick up the new keel hangers from the machine shop where they were cut down to the right size.
Note my keel cart, made on a used furniture dolly, scrap lumber, and some hardware salvaged from an abandoned satellite dish.
I plan on determining if shims / washers or milk cartons are needed when fit it all up. Also will add the anti wobble spacers on the keel head. I guess I have to sand the paint off to stick them on. (I forgot, I was so glad to be getting close to the end of this project) Seems like a zink might be in order. Does every one use the ones from CD? How to attach, drill a Hole?
James

 

[CloudDiver]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't need a sacrificial anode (zinc) if you sail fresh water right? You gotta have salt water to create a conductive solution?

Anyway, James I'm pretty sure you said you would be sailing salt water at some point anyway, yes? The Zincs they sell on CD are the same rudder anode sets you can buy at any Marine Hardware store, Martyr CM-3. They have you drill a through hole on the flat part of the keel which is stupid because the entire flat part at the front pretty much goes up inside the hull. No other part of the keel is really flat enough. Also, since my keel id fully enclosed in epoxy I'm not going to put a hole in it to expose it to water intrusion.
Stingy Sailor and I are working on a remote anode project. The Zinc will bolt onto the bottom of the hull to a bronze fitting. It will be electrically connected on the inside to the keel winch which obviously touches the keel cable and the keel eye bolt... etc. As far as I can I can tell it should be effective at protecting the the stainless from electrolysis and the cast iron is completely sealed... so, the proof will have to be in the pudding after I can test it and check for actual erosion of the anode after a season in the water.

BTW, I have the prototype ready, just getting the hull prepared to install it. I'll have a post up soon.

 

[$tingy Sailor]

BTW, although not as important as zinc anodes for salt water, your underwater metals are still at risk of stray currents in fresh water to a lesser degree. But instead of a zinc, the anode should be made of magnesium. If you sail in both, choose aluminum.

For a better explanation, there are lots of sources online, include this one at Defender.com.

 

[jmczzz]

$tingy,
Good info, but the diagrams only show placement on the outboards. Should I put one on the keel?
thanks, James