Need help with refinishing deck plan

[CloudDiver]

I wouldn't try to sharpen it, drill bits are set at a specific pitch and you cant do it by hand except on large bits. I have a drill bit sharpener that holds the bit to the stones at the correct angle. You shouldn't have to go out and buy more cobalt bits... Bronze is softer than hardened steel bits, just use the newest bits you have on a corless drill that you can slow down.

 

[jmczzz]

I did change to the cordless. It is slower, but so am I, slower. But I am making progress slow and steady... now i gotta take a break and have some lunch.
then back to it.

 

[jmczzz]

is this a new problem?

Got the keel pin out. Finally got a hole thru big enough to get a hack saw blade in there and sawed it in half. I few raps with a cold chisel to collapse it inward and then knocked it out.
It was glued into the cast iron keel with some sort of red looking stuff. I chiseled some out and only cast under that.
The insert I got in the CD kit doesn't look like stanless to me> it is hazy not shiny like I expect SS to be. also has some saw burrs on the cut ends. Is this a problem?
James

 

[CloudDiver]

The way you used the hacksaw blade to cut the pin was exactly the same thing I did once I got a hole big enough through the middle, nice job.

The red stuff was probably Red Loctite, but who knows. Whatever it was, keel pins should not be glued into the hole. I imagine it was done to seal the Cast Iron from water, so it kinda makes sense.

The keel pin bushing you got from CD is Stainless for sure. That hazy look is normal, it does not shine unless you polish it and there is no need to. just use a fine file to clean off the burrs and you are good to go. As I mentioned before, use some rough sand paper on the outside to scuff up the steel before you epoxy it into place, it with help the mechanical bond.

Got the keel pin out. Finally got a hole thru big enough to get a hack saw blade in there and sawed it in half. I few raps with a cold chisel to collapse it inward and then knocked it out.
It was glued into the cast iron keel with some sort of red looking stuff. I chiseled some out and only cast under that.
The insert I got in the CD kit doesn't look like stanless to me> it is hazy not shiny like I expect SS to be. also has some saw burrs on the cut ends. Is this a problem?
James

 

[jmczzz]

My order for epoxy, micro fibers, slow hardener and set of pumps was shipped yesterday. Meanwhile I will get keel ready to put insert in. I have the keel down flat and leveled. I am trying to come up with a plan for a simple frame / jig that will give me a guide for verticals on two sides of the dowel thru the insert so I can eyeball it as close as possible to get it 90^ to keel long way center axis and centered vertically in the hole. I will check it as I hand enlarge the hole to 1.25 with some round files. This afternoon I will clean up the area around and in the hole to remove the red whatever and residue from drilling out the pin. I’ll wait for epoxy and stuff to wire brush clean up spots on the keel I chipped out. So I can seal those right away. The remainder of the keel looks well sealed and just a few areas need to be faired a bit. I did notice the cable fitting above the eye bolt and pin was bent some. So to be safe I will go ahead and replace the cable assembly. The eye bolt appears not to beat up or worn and it has been sealed around with epoxy. I wonder if I should just leave it be? It may have been replaced when the PO had the cable replaced although that is unconfirmed. (Comments please) I want to check out the turning ball as its condition is unknown by me. I’m not sure how to get to it but guess the volcano hose will have to be disconnected? (Advise please).
Thanks, James

 

[CloudDiver]

Your plan to open up the keel bolt hole sounds good, and as I mentioned before it is ok if the hole is a little bigger than it needs to be. If you are able to get it opened to where it is a good square hole to the axis that means there will be a bigger gap on one side and that is ok to. When you mix up the epoxy and thicken it with the microfibers it will fill that nicely and be very strong. Just focus on your Jig and how it will hold the dowel an support the bushing square while it cures. Remember you only need to use a small amount of epoxy at first around the middle of the bushing to set in in place, then lay the keel on each side to let the epoxy fill and level around a waxed dowel or the actual pin that is waxed.

 

[jmczzz]

Re:grinding bigger hole for insert and pin

I have been enlarging the keel pivot hole, slow but steady. I have it pretty close to the 1.25" required now. There is not going to be much space around the insert for epoxy.
Question: Should I bevel the sides of the hole to allow a wider cap of epoxy on both sides.
James

 

[CloudDiver]

No, you don't need to make the hole any bigger than it needs to be as long as the bushing slides in and remains square.

You'll really on need to mix up one pump of the resin with one pump of the hardener. Without adding any filler brush a coat onto the raw cast iron in the hole and watch it soak in. After you brush on a coat that is not thickened, then you can add your microfibers to the rest to thicken it up. You might not even use up all of that, it does not take much.

Whenever you are mixing up a batch of epoxy (big or small), its always good to have a second job waiting and ready so if you have left overs they don't go to waste. There is always a hole or something that you can fill.

I have been enlarging the keel pivot hole, slow but steady. I have it pretty close to the 1.25" required now. There is not going to be much space around the insert for epoxy.
Question: Should I bevel the sides of the hole to allow a wider cap of epoxy on both sides.
James

 

[jmczzz]

Here's my plan. I am making the hole big enough to put the insert in there and use a "square it up" frame and a 1" x 36" wood dowel with the keel leveled lying on one side. I have made this based on a method used to drill a "straight squared hole" common in wood working shops. To do this requires; 1 - Fixing the inserts position on the dowel so that it will be centered from side to side of the keel, 2 - The hole needs to have enough space so the insert can be tilted to a square position moving the dowel and then held while the thickened epoxy at the middle hardens. The insert in the hole with the 36" x 1" dowel thru it can be squared up by trials. Then the insert can have its center epoxied (thickened) and allowed to harden. Then the dowel can be removed, keel flipped and the hole filled from both sides with un-thickened epoxy. I will take pictures as it is done.
Thanks, James

 

[CloudDiver]

Sounds perfect James. Just remember when the keel is on its side and you are using the epoxy to fill any gap, wax the keel pin and set in inside the bushing. If any epoxy overflows it wont go down into the bushing hole that you'd have to sand or file out. This makes a nice sealing collar on both sides because the bushing is typically not as long as the keel is thick. After you tap out the waxed keel pin any excess can easily be sanded flush on each side. You'll see how that looks in the pics on my thread.

Also, when you are filling in the epoxy on each side, add some microfibers to thicken it a little but keep it liquid enough to flow, don't make it into peanut butter, keep it like syrup.

Here's my plan. I am making the hole big enough to put the insert in there and use a "square it up" frame and a 1" x 36" wood dowel with the keel leveled lying on one side. I have made this based on a method used to drill a "straight squared hole" common in wood working shops. To do this requires; 1 - Fixing the inserts position on the dowel so that it will be centered from side to side of the keel, 2 - The hole needs to have enough space so the insert can be tilted to a square position moving the dowel and then held while the thickened epoxy at the middle hardens. The insert in the hole with the 36" x 1" dowel thru it can be squared up by trials. Then the insert can have its center epoxied (thickened) and allowed to harden. Then the dowel can be removed, keel flipped and the hole filled from both sides with un-thickened epoxy. I will take pictures as it is done.
Thanks, James

 

[Nahart51]

I did the exact same project. I bought the bushing from CD, ground out the hole until it fit, put a broomstick through the bushing, got it square, and then added epoxy. Worked perfect.

I added the new wider hangers from CD and the shim kit. Of course this was after I rebuilt the keel per the CD DVD.

That was 2 years ago. When I lower the keel, it fits so snug, I don't hear a clunk.

During the rebuild, I had a lot of doubts, but it all worked out.

 

[jmczzz]

Thank you both for the votes of confidence. I'll post pictures as I progress.
James

 

[jmczzz]

Finally got the hole size so the insert will slide all the way tru. I have measured the edge remaining on both sides of the keel hole and got the insert centered. I put stops on the dowel to hold it at that point. I have used a square and a torpedo level to get the dowel striaght up and down from all sides. I believe I am ready to epoxy the inserts center.
QUESTION: can I used candle wax on the dowel to keep the epoxy from sticking?

 

[CloudDiver]

Yes, candle wax, beeswax... Anything like that is fine. A good thin coat, just ensure it's covered well but no need to gob it on.

 

[jmczzz]

Ok, the insert is in and epoxied in the center. When I slid it down on the waxed dowel epoxy oozed out of the hole. I just smoothed it down into the space and wiped off the excess. I used slow hardener so I had time to check and recheck it from all sides for square ness by level and square.
The tool I used to make the hole bigger was a cylindrical carbide burr on an electric hand drill and a grinding stone on a cordless. Checked and rechecked during the 3 days I took to do it. I flipped the keel over sanded and leveled it with the two string levels again and then worked on the hole from that side. The pic of the piece of railroad track is my heavy sanding block, taped sand paper on the flat bottom and it makes a good flat level surface. When the insert would slide thru the hole by itself I centered it by measuring the hole lip on each side getting them =. I put a stop on the dowel at that point by drilling a small hole and putting a short pin of plastic, cut it off the same size as the outside diameter of the insert so I could put it thru the hole. The lower end of the dowel was on the plywood floor and I slid the insert up so I could put the epoxy micro filler mix on its middle then pushed it down the dowel into the hole untill it hit the stop. Squared it up wiped off excess checked it for square and rechecked from all sides. Looks good.
James

 

[CloudDiver]

Looks great James. Once you have the center part epoxied you can overfill each side around the waxed dowel and that will create the sealing collar, then sand flush and you are set. Good work.

 

[jmczzz]

thanks for your help. I rreally apreciate it all. James

 

[jmczzz]

I decided to follow Hawks suggestion (and my own inclinations) and just clean up the rust area bleed thrus, chips in the existing epoxy coat, and smooth out rough spots, runs and unevenness of P.O.s keel epoxy coat and B. paint.
First I got the dowel removed from the cured hole insert. Then went around the keel (port side up) and chipped / wire brushed / sanded all the spots that needed it per the above criteria.
I also wire brushed off all the old bottom paint. Then immediatly painted the worked over places with a coat of west epoxy & regular hardener.
I also filled the low spots around the new keel insert.
It looks good to me. Next I'll fair it out some and put a final epoxy coat over it all.

 

[jmczzz]

keel refinish side track

It has been slow to make progress. The weather here in the Ozarks has gone from rain to cool to warm to cool and more rain. My almost outdoor workshop goes with those conditions. The results is not many good days to be applying epoxy more than once a day because it takes a long time for it to kick and get fully cured. Add time having to trouble shoot the starter on my '51 flathead ford tractor. Be that as it may the boat work has not stopped just slowed to a crawl.
I have applied a filler coat to smooth out the keel after sanding down the West epoxy put on to seal the cleaned off spots and to finish the new keel pin installation.
The filler coat was a bit unorthodox as far as this forum usual. I had some Sea Hawk epoxy sealer / primer and silica filler material left over from a prior bottom job on a fishing boat. It's pretty simple. Just a 1:1 mix.
In keeping with my primitive hand methods, back country environment and low budget I mixed it up and followed the original shape of the boat keel faired it out and smoothed the surface. You can check out the pics of surface as it was when I dropped the keel. The first pic is the tools and material used. Note the little green fertilized spoon measurer (low tech measuring device browed from the garden shed). Oh and don't miss the sophisticated keel insert sanding device (a piece of sand paper rolled around a stick.) The filler was spread with a yellow / orange plastic spreader (O'riely auto parts 4 or 5 yrs ago). No template, just eye balled and following the original keel shape. Having spent many hours washing the wings of my Father’s bi-plane cotton dusters down in the Miss. Delta as a kid my hands were trained to know an airfoil shape. Just do that on both sides and wa-la, keel shape. My experience tells me this isn’t brain surgery. Next hand sanding and using my rail track sanding block to make it all the same surface level. I did the same on the other side and when I filler coat and smooth out the forward end of this side I’ll get a coat of bottom paint on it. A side benefit according to the info I got from reading all the discussion on Stingy’s tech stuff about keel shape my skinny ’72 keel shape will go faster. (Pics coming soon, camera battery ran down. (More tech slavery)) As promised here are the pics.
James

 

[hawk232]

looking good James!! anxiously awaiting more updates/pics!