Navigation Channel Markers

Apr 16, 2017
841
Federation NCC-1701 Riverside
A vessel being overtaken is the stand-on vessel. A vessel who runs down another stationary vessel is also at fault, especially if the vessel underway is not a "burdened" vessel (e.g. unable to stop and/or restricted in ability to maneuver due to size/draft/narrow channel etc.)
So, if these guys were fishing in a narrow ship channel and they don't move out of the way of a 500 ft. container ship they'd be at fault. If they were run down by a maneuverable pleasure boat that could reasonably be expected to have the ability to avoid them, they would not. The small fishing boat is not "restricted in ability to maneuver" in that situation.
OTOH, if they had broken down and were unable to move, and had called a Pan-Pan before getting run down by a large ship, then I'm not sure how a court would rule. Or, what if they hadn't called a Pan-Pan? Probably, either way more factors would need to be considered and it would be a complicated case.
(a) Notwithstanding anything contained in the Rules 4-18, any vessel overtaking any other shall keep out of the way of the vessel being overtaken.

The overtaking boat was under command, negligent command. Looks like not under command is reservef for "exceptional circumstances", like the autopilot was remote controlled by a psychopath and if it was turned off the boat would explode, or the skipper was dead or something like that.
 
Oct 29, 2016
1,915
Hunter 41 DS Port Huron
I believe that the fishing boat was not powered at all and either at anchor or drifting, this would be evident by watching the reaction of the fishing boat when they are preparing to jump off, the trolling motor turns, but the boat doesn't appear to change direction.
 
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Jun 2, 2004
3,395
Hunter 23.5 Fort Walton Yacht Club, Florida
"failure to maintain a proper lookout" is the number one cause in boating accidents according to the Coast Guard
 
Apr 16, 2017
841
Federation NCC-1701 Riverside
It was this "hypothical" scenerio that got me asking. Should i use the marked channel? Must i use the channel if one is available? I didnt want to impose on boaters like this.

Then there are these evil slobs that ruin the lives of others and respond with, "Whats the problem, nobody got hurt".
 
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Apr 5, 2009
2,807
Catalina '88 C30 tr/bs Oak Harbor, WA
It was this "hypothical" scenerio that got me asking. Should i use the marked channel? Must i use the channel if one is available? I didn't want to impose on boaters like this.

Then there are these evil slobs that ruin the lives of others and respond with, "What's the problem, nobody got hurt".
There is no law requiring you to stay in a marked channel. It is marked to give assistance in finding safe passage into an area of reduced depth. If you know the area and the tidal changes no one will hassle you for going out there. That doesn't mean that you might not get hailed on the radios with all manner of "doom and gloom" warnings. In my harbor, there is a group of rocks that are a mile off shore that are just awash at -1’ tide. The first channel marker just beyond. Other than those rocks, nothing exposes at -2' tide. I routinely sail out there at higher tides +7' to +12' knowing that I have at least 5 feet of water over the rocks. Every time I go out there someone will tell me that "I am in danger"

Your boat, your choice.
 
Oct 30, 2017
183
Catalina c 27 Lake Pueblo
Then there are these evil slobs that ruin the lives of others and respond with, "Whats the problem, nobody got hurt".
You hit on one of my least favorite bumper stickers with that one.
The ones that say “...but did you die?”

I just want to shoot them in the leg (away from an artery of course) and the ask them, “....but did you die?”

Quit being a d-bag and start being considerate of other members of society.
 
Jun 11, 2011
1,243
Hunter 41 Lewes
(a) Notwithstanding anything contained in the Rules 4-18, any vessel overtaking any other shall keep out of the way of the vessel being overtaken.

The overtaking boat was under command, negligent command. Looks like not under command is reserved for "exceptional circumstances",
This rule seems to be the most slaughtered of them all. If the vessel has a mechanical problem that leaves it inoperable, that is an exceptional circumstance. If the captain has a heart attack and no one else can operate the vessel, that is an exceptional circumstance. If some one goes down below to relieve themselves that is just an idiot who turned a nice day on the water into a possible problem.
Not keeping a "proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision." is just another way to ruin a perfectly good day on the water.
One thing I'd like to throw in the mix is how can a vessel who's machinery is not currently engaged in powering the vessel move to avoid any situation? As seen in this video they barely had time to abandon. Sailboats have a similar problem and unfortunately many helmsman do not plan far enough in advance. If a large vessel is running at 22 knots you need to understand that he can not do much to avoid you if you are not well clear. If a fast boat is heading in your general direction he may also be a serious problem. That is why you are supposed to take action early. Fail to plan, plan to fail. Read the rules. Talk to a Coastie I'm sure they would be happy to explain the rules if the are unclear.
 
Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
"failure to maintain a proper lookout" is the number one cause in boating accidents according to the Coast Guard
There was an item in one of the sailing rags years ago about a Coast Guard citation issued to a boat skipper alleging no lookout, collision involved. Skipper had two people who testified they were on watch, and thus the citation not legal. Coasties said, okay. Then they issued another citation for "failure to post proper/sufficient lookout" I believe the Coasties knew the boat had caused the collision, so ANY lookout should have seen it coming.
 
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Dec 29, 2008
805
Treworgy 65' LOA Custom Steel Pilothouse Staysail Ketch St. Croix, Virgin Islands
Delivery captains of new fancy stink pots who are over taking you with out signaling give you a wide berth as soon as you cock your arm back.
Saw these at a boat show a few years back. REALLY wanted to get one! Guy said it would shoot a golf ball thru a telephone pole. Seemed adequate for holing a powerboat at the waterline. It was about 32” long.
E04A1212-F245-48A1-ABBA-3D127CF26D31.jpeg
 
Dec 29, 2008
805
Treworgy 65' LOA Custom Steel Pilothouse Staysail Ketch St. Croix, Virgin Islands
I do not understand why you keep insisting a sport fisherman has any restriction to his maneuverability? The vessel is not, I repeat not, restricted in any way, even with downriggers as mentioned by one poster above. His gear may be at risk if he cannot pull it in fast enough to avoid it getting run down, but the vessel has full maneuverability at all times.
This is also how I have always understood the rule to be interpreted.
 
Dec 29, 2008
805
Treworgy 65' LOA Custom Steel Pilothouse Staysail Ketch St. Croix, Virgin Islands
There is not enough info in the video to make that determination, however, it appears that the power boat was not maintaining a proper watch and did not take action to avoid a collision. Those are 2 critical requirements in ColRegs.
I read more about this in some other venue recently. The operator was in a wheel chair, and unable to see over the bow. He is being sued by the fishermen, and he is arguing that he shouldn’t owe them damages because none of them were injured. His son-in-law, onboard at the time of the incident, apparently is opposing his defense, saying that he had warned the driver, and that he was also using his cell phone. This is greatly simplified, but my biggest issue is how can a boater justify driving along at high speed without even being able to see where he is going?!
 
Oct 19, 2017
7,746
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
from a civil suit perspective, damages and financial loss must have been suffered. However, there is also the possibility that punitive damages could be awarded.
From a criminal perspective, that guy was unlawfully, willfully, acting dangerously and there ate penalties for that, but not to the fishermen.

- Will (Dragonfly)
 

Kermit

.
Jul 31, 2010
5,657
AquaCat 12.5 17342 Wateree Lake, SC
Will and Jon,

With all due respect, neither of you were there. If we had headed up, we would have hit the boat, if we turned down we would have had to gybe twice. He was not doing anything but steering his boat across our course, he needed to do was turn 45 degrees to port for about a minute and there would have been no story to tell.

This happened at time when our corner of the lake was littered with incompetent boaters. It was the beginning of salmon mania. Fishermen in boats firmly believed that if they were fishing then they had the right of way. Even charter boat captains adhered to this view. During the 6 week salmon run, sailors were essentially forced off the water, because these guys were out blocking the harbor entrance with their fishing lines and forcing sailors into really dangerous situations. It was ugly and there was little or no law enforcement. Two or three boats would be trolling in line, with outriggers and planing boards, they would snake back and forth across the harbor leaving little room for other boats to pass. More than once we had to take evasive action to avoid being driven up on a break wall. If we got too close in the process we would be threatened. After a few years, salmon fever declined and it was once again sort of safe to navigate in the harbor and surrounding waters during salmon season.
Let’s look at the ramifications for both of you assuming you and the fisherman are both right. You stood to lose very little if nothing. Let’s say you broached, rolled and then sank. Being a sailboater you obviously were in full control of the situation. Your crew were either wearing PFDs or knew where theirs was, your sails were perfectly trimmed, you had a plan for any situation that might present itself and, most-importantly, your insurance was all paid up. Everyone would have been safe. On the other hand, the fisherman probably lost a fish.
 
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Oct 19, 2017
7,746
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
On the other hand, the fisherman probably lost a fish.
The fisherman might also have reached to wave his hat in anger and had it blow out of his hand. Do you understand how important a fisherman's hat is? :mad:
you ARE familiar with the old fisherman's saying, "A dirb in hand is worth two on the hook."
'Dirb' is fisherman speak for dirby, you know, a hat. Just felt like a little explanation was needed for that one.
:oops:
No... It was a bad pun. You're right.
:redface:
- Will (Dragonfly)