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Moeller flanging tool

Discussion in 'Catalina 22' started by gkmoore, Jan 3, 2017. Add this thread to a FAQ

  1. gkmoore

    gkmoore

    Joined Nov 12, 2015
    47 posts, 7 likes
    Catalina 22
    US Central Texas Lake LBJ
    I'm planning on putting cockpit scuppers in this winter, as described in this forum. I have priced the Moeller 1-1/4 inch tool, with shipping it will run me about $47. I was wondering if anyone has one lying around to sell me for less money. It looks like it would fit in a small priority mail box (cost $6.80 for shipping). Or rent it to me?

    Anyway, if anyone is interested in this please let me know.

    I hope I'm not breaking any rules for asking this on this forum.

    Greg
     


  2. pclarksurf

    pclarksurf

    Joined Jul 13, 2015
    320 posts, 94 likes
    Catalina 22 #2552
    US Kennewick, WA
    Greg I'll pm you -- I would split it with you?
     


  3. CaptDon01

    CaptDon01

    Joined Nov 19, 2008
    2,076 posts, 123 likes
    Catalina C-22 MK-II
    US Parrish, FL Parrish, FL
    I've got a 1 1/4" Moeller flange tool, and several brass 1 1/4" tubes. I used it to install a scupper in the transom of a Potter-15 that I refurbished several years ago. It's still somewhere in a box packed from our move, I'll try and locate it in the next day or two.

    Don
    p-15 SCUPPER 007.jpg
     


  4. Gene Neill

    Gene Neill

    Joined Sep 30, 2013
    1,682 posts, 291 likes
    Catalina 22, Albin Vega 27
    US central Florida
    Rules? On this forum?? :biggrin:

    Hey, you can also go tubeless ... if you're into that sort of thing ...


    [​IMG]
     


  5. centerline

    centerline

    Joined Mar 20, 2012
    3,924 posts, 157 likes
    Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25
    US Salem, Oregon
    the brass tubes are good and can be cut to fit any wall thickness that you may want a tube in... but the plastic, snap together drain tubes such as the moeller brand or the sea dog brand are an excellent product and much tougher than one would think. Ive used them on several boats for motor well drain tubes and I am impressed with them...

    regardless of brass or plastic, when the tube goes thru wood, it needs to be sealed so that moisture cant get around the insert and into the wood... keeping the water out is much more important than what material the tube is made out of.
     


  6. Leeward Rail

    Leeward Rail

    Joined Mar 20, 2015
    968 posts, 85 likes
    Catalina 22 New Style
    CA Lake of the Woods
    Which brings up the question....
    Other than simple manufacturing ease, why would you want to NOT line the holes with resin and be done with it ?
    @Gene Neill How has that held up so far ?

    At the very least, when I redo my drains this summer, I plan on lining them with resin (just like all my hull/deck penetrations), brass tubes or not.
     


  7. gkmoore

    gkmoore

    Joined Nov 12, 2015
    47 posts, 7 likes
    Catalina 22
    US Central Texas Lake LBJ
    Gene,

    Is that regular PVC pipe epoxied in? or the plastic tubes Centerline mentions?

    Looks like the plastic tubes eliminate need for an expensive flanging tool.
     


  8. centerline

    centerline

    Joined Mar 20, 2012
    3,924 posts, 157 likes
    Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25
    US Salem, Oregon
    I dont think its a problem of NOT wanting to seal it, but more of a problem of NOT doing it adequately...
    when one applies resin to the wood inside the hole, it will seal the wood for the time being, but when the fiberglass gets warm in the summer or colder in the winter, or the humidity of the wood changes, the resin will crack where the glass skin meets the wood core... then water can be sucked into the core like a sponge as it weeps around the flange.
    sealing with resin is good, but use a good flexible sealer around the tube during the installation and it will be water tight for the rest of its life.
     


  9. centerline

    centerline

    Joined Mar 20, 2012
    3,924 posts, 157 likes
    Cal 34-III, MacGregor 25
    US Salem, Oregon
    what is shown in Genes photo is not the nylon drain tubes I mentioned. the plastic ones have a flange. a lot of newer boats use them because they are cheaper, quicker and no tool needed...
     


  10. Gene Neill

    Gene Neill

    Joined Sep 30, 2013
    1,682 posts, 291 likes
    Catalina 22, Albin Vega 27
    US central Florida
    Nope, that's good old fiberglass and resin. Kind of a PITA, but I like it, and I don't expect it to ever fail (part of the reason I like it!)

    Threaded plastic drains were not an option for me, because my scupper holes are drilled so close to the cockpit floor that there's no room for the flange. But I didn't like the "cheap" look of plastic fittings anyway.

    Just for grins, I'll show you how my process went. Here's what you'll be looking at when you pull out the old tube:

    [​IMG]

    What I did was, I got in there with a Dremel and ground out some of the material inside, enlarging the tunnel, but keeping the outside openings the same. Then I applied thickened resin inside the holes, making sure to force it outward into the voids between the layers:

    [​IMG]


    Then I rolled some fiberglass cloth around a dowel, stuck it in the hole, and rolled the 'glass around, smushing it into the thickened resin and further forcing the resin outward. Then I applied a little unthickened resin to the glass cloth:

    [​IMG]

    Then sanded ...

    [​IMG]

    .... then applied some white gelcoat I had on hand.

    [​IMG]


    Like I said ... it was a PITA compared to either of your other options. I probably would have just used brass tubes, except that I was also ripping up some rotten cockpit floor at the time, as you can see through the holes in the first two pics. But now that it's done, I'm glad I did it. Funny how that seems to be the way it often goes.

    If you have clearance for the flanges, plastic drains will be your quickest, cheapest option. The only downside (in my humble opinion) is, they look cheap and unattractive.

    For a few bucks more, you can have factory replacement brass tubes. I don't particularly trust the brass tube design with its tiny little flange, but there are thousands of them out there, so with careful installation I'm sure they can be leak free for many years.
     


    Last edited: Jan 5, 2017
    Track4ever and C22-Daydreamer like this.
  11. Leeward Rail

    Leeward Rail

    Joined Mar 20, 2015
    968 posts, 85 likes
    Catalina 22 New Style
    CA Lake of the Woods
    Exactly what I was thinking. The rest of the hull hasn't failed in all these years, I can't see a well executed job of lining the hole with resin+glass being any less durable.
     


  12. gkmoore

    gkmoore

    Joined Nov 12, 2015
    47 posts, 7 likes
    Catalina 22
    US Central Texas Lake LBJ
    I have no drainage tubes now, so will be putting in the wood blocks, etc. I'm not sure my skills are up to doing my own fiberglass and make it look good; also I have no gel coat.

    I think I am still considering the brass vs. nylon tubes- haven't seen either in person to have an opinion on the aesthetics of either. I did plan to try and 'bed' the flanges w/ some butyl caulk when I do the install.
     


  13. Gene Neill

    Gene Neill

    Joined Sep 30, 2013
    1,682 posts, 291 likes
    Catalina 22, Albin Vega 27
    US central Florida


  14. gkmoore

    gkmoore

    Joined Nov 12, 2015
    47 posts, 7 likes
    Catalina 22
    US Central Texas Lake LBJ
    I like that, here in Texas in August it would be a hot tub!
     


    Gene Neill likes this.
  15. bushav

    bushav

    Joined Aug 18, 2015
    165 posts, 37 likes
    Catalina 22
    US Panama City, FL
    Glad to see this thread. I contacted Catalina Direct last year looking for the 1 5/8" scupper tubes in brass. They responded that they lost their vendor for that product and were looking for another source. I desperately need to replace mine. Does anyone have a source for the scupper material? Anyone have two for sale? I found what may work at
    http://www.speedymetals.com/pc-2858-8200-1-58-od-x-18-od-wall-tube-brass.aspx. The wall might be too thick on this product. Please let me know if anyone has a solution. I may go the fiberglass route like Gene if I can't come up with a brass solution.

    Lane
     


  16. Leeward Rail

    Leeward Rail

    Joined Mar 20, 2015
    968 posts, 85 likes
    Catalina 22 New Style
    CA Lake of the Woods
    The chandler here had some in stock this fall, so someone out there makes them.
     


  17. rpludwig

    rpludwig

    Joined May 23, 2016
    112 posts, 25 likes
    Catalina 22 #12502
    US New Bern, NC BSC


    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
  18. gkmoore

    gkmoore

    Joined Nov 12, 2015
    47 posts, 7 likes
    Catalina 22
    US Central Texas Lake LBJ
    I just finished my project last weekend, I used teh brass tubes from Jamestown, all in all I'm pleased with the results; hope to post pics in the future.
     


  19. Jacomo Sailor

    Jacomo Sailor

    Joined Feb 11, 2015
    112 posts, 20 likes
    Catalina 22
    US Lake Jacomo
    Mine are made from 1 1/4" PVC couplings. They were installed by the PO (more likely by the marina where he kept her). They are slightly longer than the thickness of the transom, and are installed flush on the inside. This allows them to protrude from the transom by 3/8" which eliminates this nasty condition which you can get with flush scuppers.
    scupper.jpg
    Mine were installed with thickened epoxy and there has been no leakage to the inside at all. It is such a clean install that if you didn't know any better, you would think it was a factory feature

    A testament to how well my transom scuppers work: We experienced some torrential downpours with flash flooding this past summer. We got 7" of rain one day and there was a period of time where it was falling at a rate of 3"/hr! That's enough to fill the cockpit faster than the stock floor drains can handle. I went out later fully expecting to find that the cockpit had filled and spilled into the cabin briefly during the heaviest part of the rainfall. Much to my delight the cabin was still bone dry. Best $3 upgrade you can make to these boats IMO.
     


  20. CloudDiver

    CloudDiver

    Joined Sep 8, 2014
    2,152 posts, 227 likes
    Catalina 22 Swing Keel
    US San Diego San Diego
    I'll throw in my pics here, since I think I'm the only one that used the Marelon plastic fittings from CD. First, I'll show one issue I had. Compared to @Gene Neill 's first pic he shows, I have a big gap between the cockpit liner and the plywood/glass of the transom. In this pic you can kinda see it because of the light; Top left hole, the big one below it if for the bilge pump discharge and is below the cockpit liner level.
    [​IMG]
     



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