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Mid-Boat Cleats

Discussion in 'Catalina 310' started by Frank H, Jun 15, 2018. Add this thread to a FAQ

  1. Frank H

    Frank H

    Joined May 22, 2017
    24 posts, 2 likes
    Catalina 310
    US Lake Carlyle
    Hello Mates
    I'm still getting used to my new-to-me 310. I back into my slip with the dock finger on my starboard side. (Still on the learning curve on backing into slip) My boat has a cleat on each side mid-ship that is mounted on the car rail. My question is: Is it wise to use these mid-ship cleats for dock lines such as spring lines? Are they strong enough to handle a big storm or am I asking for trouble by doing this? I'm not sure if the rails were made for this use. Our terrain is quite flat which is why the lake is great for sailing, but our storms can be severe.

    Also, any references on a good mooring setup? My port side slip is empty. I've been running a line from my port mid-ship cleat on the rail to a cleat on the port dock finger. I also don't know if this is wise.
    Frank H
    Hull #17
    Lake Carlyle, Ill.
     


  2. kappykaplan

    kappykaplan

    Joined May 1, 2011
    769 posts, 116 likes
    Pearson 37
    US Lusby MD
    Frank, my Pearson has mid-ship cleats mounted to the toe rail on both sides. I use the one on the port side for my forward spring line - no issues.

    My set up is two spring lines to port, with the after spring on a cleat on the cockpit coaming. Then I have two bow lines on the outer pilings and my stern lines are on dock cleats and cross the stern. Hope this helps a little.
     


  3. Don S/V ILLusion

    Don S/V ILLusion

    Joined Sep 25, 2008
    5,024 posts, 263 likes
    Alden 50
    US Sarasota, Florida
    It would be preferable to use cleats supported by structure but guess that isn't an option so my suggestion is to figure out how your toe rail is connected/bonded to the hull as an indication of strength. Simply 'screwed and glued' is certainly too weak.
     


  4. smokey73

    smokey73

    Joined Oct 26, 2010
    576 posts, 102 likes
    Hunter 40.5
    US Beaufort, SC
    I think the OP is saying that the midships cleats he has are mounted to the "car rail" rather than the toe rail. I have such a cleat that fits on the car rail for the jib sheets but would not use it for a "significant load" Like Frank, I am lucky enough to have midship cleats mounted with significant backing plates through the toe rail. If I am wrong on my assumption about the location of his cleats then ignore my post.
     


  5. marchem

    marchem

    Joined Nov 16, 2012
    612 posts, 59 likes
    Catalina 310, 2000, #31
    US Santa Cruz
    Frank, I think most C310s use a cleat on the jib track for docking lines. That's certainly better than a stanchion or the shrouds. I vaguely remember a discussion here about mounting a cleat on the toe rail, but don't recall if it actually was done. Given Jesse's recent experience with two hurricanes I'd wait and see what he says.
     


    smokey73 likes this.
  6. pateco

    pateco

    Joined Aug 12, 2014
    2,007 posts, 522 likes
    Hunter 31 (1983)
    US Pompano Beach FL


  7. svchickadee

    svchickadee

    Joined May 8, 2011
    169 posts, 20 likes
    ODay 25
    US Cambridge
    On my Irwin 41 I had track cleats. The cleats were useful for docking but in my slip I used the bow and stern cleats for spring lines.
     


  8. iSailor

    iSailor

    Joined Oct 17, 2011
    205 posts, 7 likes
    Catalina 310
    US Chesapeake (Middle River, MD)
    that is the setup on my 310 and most 310's I think. I do not recall anyone reporting any problems regarding this.
     


  9. Stu Jackson

    Stu Jackson

    Joined Feb 26, 2004
    19,846 posts, 531 likes
    Catalina 34
    224 CA Maple Bay, BC, Canada
    I've been using track mount mid ship cleats for 20 years. I use them for docking with a midships spring line. The track is likely stronger than your fore & aft cleats: it has a ton more fasteners. As long as the connector from the cleat to the track (usually a pin) is working properly, they are plenty strong. Besides, you're using other lines, too, right?

    Single Handing 101.1 Midship Cleats Pictures http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4921.0.html
     


    Last edited: Jun 15, 2018
    Alansails likes this.
  10. Parsons

    Parsons

    Joined Jul 12, 2011
    535 posts, 153 likes
    Catalina 36
    US Bay City, MI
    Honestly, the track itself is probably strong enough as it's designed for lifting forces, which are the worst possible type for fasteners or cleats, and you are using it for shear forces. All jib track's that I have seen are through-bolted, which you can check-out from the inside. The real question is the track-to-cleat connection and that pin that @Stu Jackson noted. I have these track-cleats on my boat, and have always been concerned about putting significant loads on them. May I suggest that you can 'stage' your loads by keeping your normal mooring cleats tighter than the center cleats? That way they'll just be backup if something else failed.
     


    Last edited: Jun 15, 2018
  11. jssailem

    jssailem

    Joined Oct 22, 2014
    5,575 posts, 1,875 likes
    CAL 35 Cruiser
    US Salem, Moored Port Everett WA
    I can vouch for @Stu Jackson and his mid ship cleat techniques. I have watched him bring in his boat solo in varying weather and water conditions. His cleats are like a Timex watch... Takes a licking and keeps on ticking. :clap:

    One wants to listen to his admonitions if on the dock and offering a hand. Most likely you'll be asked to watch rather than "give me a hand". It is because he works Aquavite like a fine tuned machine. Always the gentleman I have seen him try to kick himself for letting a female offer assistance only to have her not follow his directions:soapbox::banghead:. But that is a story best shared over :beer:and a table away from Stu.:biggrin:;)

    As far as mid ship cleats. Yes they are a great tool. Having them on your track means the track and the cleat fittings will need to be sound. You will find that a proper installed cleat with backing is your best and strongest tool. But you can compromise by having more lines so that your boats safety is not secured by only one connection.
     


  12. Stu Jackson

    Stu Jackson

    Joined Feb 26, 2004
    19,846 posts, 531 likes
    Catalina 34
    224 CA Maple Bay, BC, Canada
    You have a very good memory.

    Thing to include as a necessity: the female owns a boat with her husband and has for quite some time.

    You know, not just some gorgeous chick on the dock I was trying to meet by asking her to please "grab my bow line."

    Maybe I wasn't clear enough...
     


    jssailem likes this.
  13. jssailem

    jssailem

    Joined Oct 22, 2014
    5,575 posts, 1,875 likes
    CAL 35 Cruiser
    US Salem, Moored Port Everett WA
    As said. Need :beer: to discuss the nuances.
     


  14. JK_Boston_Catalina310

    JK_Boston_Catalina310

    Joined Nov 18, 2010
    1,940 posts, 71 likes
    Catalina 310
    US Hingham, MA
    We used these type of cleats while having 170+ knot winds during Maria. They held fine with zero damage. So if they can deal with a category 5 hurricane I think they will do fine under normal docking situations.
     


    Spellman66 and Cat 310 #1 in GA like this.
  15. MikeToronto

    MikeToronto

    Joined Mar 28, 2018
    7 posts, 0 likes
    Catalina 310
    CA Toronto
    We have finally zeroed in on a boat and, barring unforeseen hiccups, should come into possession mid-July. :)
    Two questions for this thread:
    1. What's wrong with tying the spring lines to the stanchions amidships? Are they considered not strong enough (I've see boats lifted out of the water by the lifelines, don't ask how that came about)?
    2. I will likely have mine on the swing mooring. She's been in the slip all her life previously and, unless I am totally mistaken, doesn't have bow chocks installed. IMHO, those chocks are the must for the swing mooring, otherwise the lines going over the gunwales are sure to damage gel-coat. Please, chime in with your opinions, whether you have those chocks installed, and any other recommendations.
     


  16. Parsons

    Parsons

    Joined Jul 12, 2011
    535 posts, 153 likes
    Catalina 36
    US Bay City, MI
    Stanchions are not nearly strong enough. Usually they are not bedded with a backing plate but only some washers. Sad that we trust our lives to them.

    Fully agree about having proper chafe protection. Due to the vertical angle, my docklines don’t touch gelcoat in the slip but do at anchor.
     


  17. JK_Boston_Catalina310

    JK_Boston_Catalina310

    Joined Nov 18, 2010
    1,940 posts, 71 likes
    Catalina 310
    US Hingham, MA
    Never tie a boat off by the stantion or use the stantions to move a boat around at the dock. They are not made for that type of load.

    We are on a mooring or anchor 100% of the time. The cleats are all the way over at the edge and the lack of a chock is not a big deal. We do you chafe guard.
     


    JamesG161 likes this.
  18. MikeToronto

    MikeToronto

    Joined Mar 28, 2018
    7 posts, 0 likes
    Catalina 310
    CA Toronto
    Thanks a lot, guys. This is where having this forum comes in real handy - people who've owned these boats for a while obviously have superior knowledge of what to expect in various situations. I shall forego bow chocks and will invest in sacrificial (leather, likely) for where the mooring lines go over the gunwales. BTW, do you cross them or simply go for the nearest cleat?
     


  19. marchem

    marchem

    Joined Nov 16, 2012
    612 posts, 59 likes
    Catalina 310, 2000, #31
    US Santa Cruz
    The C310 only has washers on the stanchions. Plus the load is spread out over a fairly small area, compared to a properly installed cleat.
    IMG_1007.JPG
     


    Alansails likes this.
  20. JK_Boston_Catalina310

    JK_Boston_Catalina310

    Joined Nov 18, 2010
    1,940 posts, 71 likes
    Catalina 310
    US Hingham, MA
    Check with your local fire department. Retired fire hose is some of the best chafe guards you can get. I do have a set of chocks on my boat that I might install. But that's more about the angle of pull on the cleats than chafe.

    Nearest cleat. For a mooring we use two nylon dock lines as a bridle. Each one goes through the eye on the mooring and back to the same side. One is left slightly lazy. The lazy side is done so that if there is chafe and the line chafes through, the other line hasn't also been chafed and now takes up the load. We use nylon webbing chafe guard, a long length about 10 feet (down here they have it on rolls of 500 feet and you can buy per foot, but this is a 10 foot section on Amazon, or use the fire hose but sometimes its too wide for this). The line with the chafe guard goes the whole distance. For anchoring we use a similar system on a bridle using a Mantus hook.

    For storms (up to Cat 1), we add some backup lines. They are run from the thimble eyes to the midship cleats using pool noodles to keep them floating. Both are lazy and won't even take up until both bow lines break.
     



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