MD17C rebuild

[Mark Maulden]

I have a 32 yr old boat with a Volvo MD17C engine that burns about 1/4 qt of oil in ~12 hrs of cruising. It is hard starting and when it catches, there's a lot of unburnt fuel. Injectors have been rebuilt several months ago but no compression test. I'm thinking compression will be low. Been thinking of replacing with a Beta (~$12K), however, have also been thinking about just rebuilding the Volvo. My thought is to have an oil analysis done to see how the bearings are looking and then pull the cylinders for rings/valves and everything that goes with it. Parts look to be about $1800 and I can do the labor myself as I have rebuilt some car engines. So, assuming oil analysis is positive, and about $1800 plus some machine shop fees, I can have an engine that would last another 2500hrs (I'm 59 yrs old). The $1800 includes new liners which may or may not be needed. Anybody have experiences rebuilding these engines? Good resource for parts? How's my reasoning?

 

[jviss]

surprised

I wouldn't think you'd need a rebuild at 2500 hours, but I'm no expert. A compression test would be interesting.

What kind of running? Mostly battery charging, i.e., almost no load?

Have you ever adjusted the valves?

You might get away with just recutting and lapping the valve seats, and honing the cylinders, reusing the rings. Would be a lot cheaper.

 

[sailaway78]

I would never

I would think that it is very possible that at 2500 hours a good valve job and set of rings may very well make you like new. But I would not even consider re using the old rings, nor would I ever re use rod bearings that have been pulled out. Honing the sleeves should be fine, if not over specs on wear. Mike the crank, hone the sleeves, new rings and bearings, and a good valve job should cure your problems. Assuming nothing else shows up when you pull it apart.

 

[Steve Dion]

Mark:

Most of the older Volvo's seem to be hard starting. There was a start sequence posted here several years ago. You may be able to find it in the archives.

These older Volvo engines always seem to smoke, hard start & burn some oil. I also doubt that you would need a complete rebuild, so I would get some advise before you spend all of that money on parts & some significant shop labor too.

 

[Mark Maulden]

Ya I would think 2500 hrs would be about the break in period for a diesel. I've had the boat since Feb so I'm not sure how the engine was run or maintained and it was obviously started before I did trial sails. Valves have been adjusted when injectors were rebuilt. If it was maintained like the rest of the boat, then it was pretty bad. My experience with engines is if you increase the compression of an older engine with a valve job, it would probably burn more oil past the rings. Pulling the cylinders off is not that much more work after the heads are removed. Since the cylinders are external, I would not plan on getting into the main/rod bearings assuming the oil analysis showed no abnormal wear with such. Thus, I can leave the block in place. I did an experiment today. I pulled the kill handle out and cranked the engine until oil pressure appeared. Then started it. And.. it started. That tells me rings.....Steve, thanks for the hard start info. I'll search but i'net searches didn't prove anything useful...

 

[sailcruiser]

Just in contrast I have the same engine and she starts immediately and burns very little to no oil. I had read somewhere along my travels that an inline fuse can be the issue for hard starts on some boats. Cheap wire, dirty fuse etc. I have a ton of records to sort and once that is done I can tell you what the PO had done.

-<knocking on wood!>
SC

 

[Mark Maulden]

Tnx SC. Some more info... I have installed a separate starting battery with short 2/0 wire.and it does crank fine. It just takes some cranking. I see you have the same boat a little newer. In mine, S2 put four 6V batteries (two banks) under the companion way ladder and ran #4 wires to the battery switch under the electrical panel. Then another #4 back to the starter. That's somewhere around 20' of undersized wire not including any grounds!!!!!

 

[sailcruiser]

UGH! I can't say how our boat started but it now has two Interstate SPM 29s that I am fairly certain need to be replaced. They're 5 years old at this point and we're having some odd problems. I'll know more once I buy a hydrometer. I'm still getting to know all the little pieces and parts. It's a little overwhelming some days! Good luck with the MD17. It can be done at least...may save you a few bucks. SC

 

[Mark Maulden]

somebody also told me about Marvel Mystery Oil.....

 

[sailcruiser]

No idea. We use Rotella. SC

 

[jviss]

... I would not even consider re using the old rings....

Nothing wrong with using the old rings if they are not worn out or broken. Will require less break-in, also, if just a light hone is done to break the glaze on the cylinder walls.

If you install new rings, you should break in the engine running it HARD, meaning a load near 80% of rated output, so the rings seat properly. This kind of load is hard to do sitting at the dock, you'd have to go out and motor somewhere.

 

[Mark Maulden]

Ya, if I had my druthers (which I don't) I'd put it in a tractor and go move some dirt before boat install......

 

[jrowan]

By the way to the fella that mentioned Interstate batteries - I think that they stink.
I've had several Interstate batteries in different applications - both boat & car & they've prematurely failed in several different vehicles. They're overpriced & I got nothing back from their lame warranty when I went to replace them. Buy the biggest Amp hour holding deep cycles that U can get from a generic name battery & save your money.

 

[jrowan]

ps. I also used to own an S 2 8.5 meter. Great boat, until I sold her to an idiot who abused & neglected her to the point of destruction. Its sad to see a good boat get destroyed by ignorance. They say selling a boat is kinda like a divorce, can't live with 'em, or without em. I wish I could repossese her!

 

[Hermit Scott]

I rebuilt a one cylinder 12 horse 3 years ago. Now I am in the middle of rebuilding a 2 cylinder 20 horse. If you are going to have the whole thing apart there are a few things I would do because the cost is so small compared to knowing it will last likely the rest of your life if you take care of it.(You could live to be 100!)
The first thing is I would have the crank ground and polished and I would put oversized main bearings in it and oversized crank bearings. These can be matched when being ground and polished. This will make them like new, not just 'in specs'. Secondly and probably most important; take a look at the valve seats. It is possible to chamfer the valve seat down to a 45 and the whole valve seating surface will sit against it. This is the lazy way of making an engine run great for a relatively short time. A lazy mechanic rebuilding the engine may do this if the seats are worn below or previously cut below specs. The valves will sit lower and you have a little less compression at first. The problem with this method is, there should be a thin lip on the valve seat ( less than 2mm) for the valve to seal against. The valve transfers less heat to a thinner seat keeping them hot enough to burn carbon away. Also The wide seat not only makes the valves run too cool, but also get carbon trapped in them and end up with pits/leaking soon enough.
Right now on this engine we are cutting large holes out and pressing in big pucks to start over with the valve seat area. The manual calls for a new head when they are to this point but good luck finding a new head on your engine or mine(35 year old yanmar).
And I would absolutely put new sleeves and pistons. why not go all the way with it?

 

[sailcruiser]

By the way to the fella that mentioned Interstate batteries - I think that they stink.
I've had several Interstate batteries in different applications - both boat & car & they've prematurely failed in several different vehicles. They're overpriced & I got nothing back from their lame warranty when I went to replace them. Buy the biggest Amp hour holding deep cycles that U can get from a generic name battery & save your money.

They seem to have a following of either love or hate with very little in between. They were what it had when we bought it and are 5 years old at this point. I don't plan to buy anything until Spring so we get fresher batteries. These are great in amperage so I need to figure out what is similar in capacity and compare. I plan to test them sometime this week but have all winter to decide on a replacement. Thanks! SC

 

[Jtoben]

I have a 32 yr old boat with a Volvo MD17C engine that burns about 1/4 qt of oil in ~12 hrs of cruising. It is hard starting and when it catches, there's a lot of unburnt fuel. Injectors have been rebuilt several months ago but no compression test. I'm thinking compression will be low. Been thinking of replacing with a Beta (~$12K), however, have also been thinking about just rebuilding the Volvo. My thought is to have an oil analysis done to see how the bearings are looking and then pull the cylinders for rings/valves and everything that goes with it. Parts look to be about $1800 and I can do the labor myself as I have rebuilt some car engines. So, assuming oil analysis is positive, and about $1800 plus some machine shop fees, I can have an engine that would last another 2500hrs (I'm 59 yrs old). The $1800 includes new liners which may or may not be needed. Anybody have experiences rebuilding these engines? Good resource for parts? How's my reasoning?

Hate to tell you this....our pal with this engine just had the governor break and it raced on him, rpms out of control. By the time he got it shut down, and sailed the boat to Torresens Marine here on Lake MI, he found that rebuild parts are not available here or in Europe for this engine anymore...at least not to the extent needed for that engine. We have the same engine, and so far so good, knock on wood....our pal had to repower.

 

[sailcruiser]

Hate to tell you this....our pal with this engine just had the governor break and it raced on him, rpms out of control. By the time he got it shut down, and sailed the boat to Torresens Marine here on Lake MI, he found that rebuild parts are not available here or in Europe for this engine anymore...at least not to the extent needed for that engine. We have the same engine, and so far so good, knock on wood....our pal had to repower.

Oh CARP! (intentionally misspelled) That can be a hefty price tag. Perhaps some stuff on the used market? I think if I ever repower I will probably ditch the sail drive while I'm at it. SC

 

[Mark Maulden]

Marine Parts Express seems to be a pretty good resource for older Volvo engines. They have everything for an upper rebuild. I probably should call and see if they have heads/governors etc in case I need after I pull it apart. (If I finally decide to)

 

[Mark Maulden]

Update: I'm planning on doing this sometime in Dec/Jan as I'm having some foot surgery in November along with some music gigs. I think I have located all the parts I might ever need. I've talked with a highly recommended local machine shop that works on these all the time. The one thing they did say was that the injector sleeves are obsolete and if they are "gone", then it's probably a replacement head which is only available on the used mkt ($$$/head). They are correct. They are obsolete..I've located three new sleeves and probably the last new ones on the planet and I bought em. I can always return or unload them if not needed. My only fear is seized nuts/bolts etc. Thinking of doing a video of the rebuild but my only video camera is my phone.... Thousands in cameras/lenses and can't do video.....yet. Now u know what my other hobby(s) is....