Mast wiring
- Thread starter awerman
- Start date
Contact catalina direct or go up the mast, take one of the lights loose and take a look. If you have any slack wire inside of one of the light fixtures you could take a small piece for a sample. The wire will not have to be very large because it does not carry much voltage. Are you replacing the wire? You can determine the size by looking at the wire that runs on the port side of the boat that runs from the mast step,along the port side bulkhead, along the topsides, and back to the light switches. Count the number of strands in the wire. The wire needs to be supple enough to work with easily.
The voltage doesn't determine the size of the wire. The current does. I would not go with anything less then #16. #12 would be better. With a low voltage system you can get some fairly high currents. Not so much with the new LED lights but I have heard they are not all approved by the USCG.
I stand corrected, current does determine the size of wire you need. Keep in mind if you use too large a wire then you will have trouble getting a good connection at the base of the mast. The two part connector that is used most of the time does not work well if the wire is too large in diameter. The wire inside the mast does not need to be larger than the wire that is feeding it. I own a Catalina 25 and have helped a friend with a Catalina 25 running new wire from the base of the mast to the interior of the boat sealing leaks, and adding keel bolts to a cast iron fin keel.
hello all
this last summer, I rewired my entire boat.... new navigation lights, clam shell horn, anchor light on top of mast, steaming light on mast, deck light on mast, cabin lights, am/fm/cd stereo, bilge pump, cockpit accent lights, hummingbird depth finder, and cigarette plugs for laptop or cell phone recharge.... I also installed a 30 watt solar panel with a 15 amp solar controller and 2 batteries in the house bank .... I used 14 gauge wire and used crimp connectors to connect the wired... then used liquid electrical tape to seal all wires from water intrusion....
works great....
sincerely
Jess
this last summer, I rewired my entire boat.... new navigation lights, clam shell horn, anchor light on top of mast, steaming light on mast, deck light on mast, cabin lights, am/fm/cd stereo, bilge pump, cockpit accent lights, hummingbird depth finder, and cigarette plugs for laptop or cell phone recharge.... I also installed a 30 watt solar panel with a 15 amp solar controller and 2 batteries in the house bank .... I used 14 gauge wire and used crimp connectors to connect the wired... then used liquid electrical tape to seal all wires from water intrusion....
works great....
sincerely
Jess
Celticwinds you are exactly correct. The wire in the mast or really anywhere in the circuit should, and does not need to be bigger or smaller then any other. Try to keep all the wire sizes the same if possible to avoid voltage drop anywhere in the circuit. I had to run new wire in my mast and also add 50 ohm coax for a vhf radio antenna up on the truck. The coax connector was kind of a no brainer because I needed a through the hull fitting so I could unstep the mast and you don't have a whole lot of choices here. You just need to have a good way to plug the female fitting on the deck to keep water out of the connector. Water will play heck with a high frequency connector. Being a round connector it's very easy to plug it however. Any auto supply house sells caps for vacuum lines in an assortment of sizes dirt cheap. Just slip a cap over the connector on deck and you're good. They probably make some fancy marine connectors with some equally fancy prices but what I suggest works fine. I check the system with an SWR (standing wave ratio) meter and no water has gotten in. For the low voltage lighting I used a standard trailer lighting plug again available at the auto supply house. It also comes with a "blank" rubber plug to seal the connector on deck. Water in the low voltage connector is not really a problem. It works on trailers just fine and it will work for you. I unscrew the coax connector, unplug the trailer connector and I'm ready to unstep the mast. For anything below deck that you want to be able to unplug occasionally I like to use a "Jones" plug. They have been around for many years, are inexpensive and you can't plug them in the wrong way. They also have built in strain relief clamps on the plugs. You can plug them in blindfolded and you don't have to worry about polarity.
davidmhull, A trailer connector sounds like a good idea and they have been proven to work well. How do you seal the deck where the wire comes out for the trailer connector? Would you use a grommet or some type of sealer? The person that I helped needed to replace the connector that was on deck and the wires were broken off. I ran new wires through the deck and replaced the connector. He wanted to use new wire that was of a larger diameter but learned it would not be held tightly by the screws inside the connector. Now don`t get me wrong, I think using too small of wire is no good either. A professional rigger worked on my friends j28 trying to repair lights on the mast that were not working . He spent a lot of time up the mast before giving up. My friend asked me to help so I connected wires to the battery and put current to the base of the mast inside the boat. Lights came on. The wiring was broken behind the bulkhead. Used a piece of weedeater line to fish new wire, replaced trim,My friend is happy. I repair quite a few boats for my friends. I learn a lot from this site too.
Hi celticwinds. I would not use a grommet. To me the only good use for a grommet is to protect wire from abrasion which is not what you are trying to do here. The other problem with grommets is that they are by design a bit squishy and they rot and crack. After a while they lose the ability to seal and if you have any sideways pull on them they tend to open up a bit allowing water in. What I did on my boat and a friends boat as well was to pass the trailer connector wires through a 3/8" hole drilled in the deck right beside the mast step. Before pushing the wires through this hole I slipped a 3/8" inside diameter stainless steel washer over the wires. I inserted the wires into the cabin leaving about 2 inches of wire up top for flexibility and ease of plugging in the connector. I then filled the hole with GE white 100% silicone. I made sure that all surfaces of the wires had a liberal coating where they entered the hole. I left the silicone a bit proud of the deck (about 1/8") so that when I pushed the washer down it squished out the sides and up through the little spaces between the wires forming a cone above the hole in the washer. This sealed the washer to the deck and left no spaces for water to enter. The silicone is viscous enough to hold the washer in place while it dries. We have not seen one drop of leakage. The other thing we did was use crimp connectors to make the transition from the trailer connector wires to the wires leading up through the mast. Some people will say they do not like crimp connectors and swear that the only way to make connections is solder and heat shrink tubing. I have been doing this kind of work for 40 years and I can assure you that crimps are fine if you install them properly. Heat shrink is not waterproof by itself. If you get salt water drawn by capillary attraction up into a partially sealed section of heat shrink and left there without a way to dry out then I guarantee the copper wire around your fancy solder job is going to dissolve over time. The trick is to use a proper crimping tool and seal the sleeves of the crimp connectors. By proper crimping tool I mean not a pair of slip joint pliers. Even a cheap set from Harbor Freight is good enough if you aren't going to make a living with them. Try to get a set that has the built in bolt sheer which is very common to crimpers. Best thing since sliced bread when you need to sheer off a stainless machine screw and still have the threads work after that. You can either buy or make your own waterproof crimp connectors. The type I am talking about are the ones used to make underwater connections for deep well pumps. The crimp connectors are designed to live for many years connected to a 220 volt circuit completely submerged so they are going to work great in a boat environment. These connectors are filled with vacuum pump grease and when you crimp them the grease squishes out nicely and seals the wiring from water and consequent corrosion. Silicone vacuum pump grease is some amazing stuff by the way. Once applied it is not going anywhere. I have never found anything that will dissolve it. To make your own waterproof crimps just fill the crimp sleeve from one end to the other with this grease. I get mine in small tubes of the toothpaste variety and hold the tube up to one end of the connector and squeeze until it extrudes from the other end (this is of course done before you crimp the connector). Wipe any excess of and they will store for about 600 years this way. When you install them just push the wires up in them and crimp. I make my own because the commercial crimps used for deep water pumps are generally made for #10 wire. I use a lot of #12 and #14 for some small lighting projects and the red and blue crimp connectors are better suited for this. I must warn you not to use regular silicone adhesive. It just will not hold up underwater as long as the vacuum pump grease. Dow Corning makes the best vacuum pump grease in my opinion.
I will have to do some research on the grease you are talking about.I have never used it. The area where I am located has fresh water and solder and shrink tube seems to work fine. I agree that a crimp works fine so long as it is done correctly. A lot of people don`t know the importance of a simple crimp tool. Would electrical grease be similar to the grease you described? I like the idea of a trailer connector but am still not sold on the use of silicone. Where is Richmond? VA.? I sail on Cherokee Lake in Tenn. I owned a Catalina 22 for about 5 years. I did own a Parker Dawson 26 but now own a Catalina25. If you are ever in my part of the country look me up and we can trade ideas and advise.
Electric or "dialectric" grease is fine. I am not sold on silicone myself. It does seem to work but it can do funny things over time. I am much more prone to trust things that never harden. Dialectric grease would work where the wires come through to the trailer connector as well. Probably life caulk would work fine also. Richmond is pretty much right in the middle of Virginia. It's located on the James river which is about two hours from the bay.
Somebody will probably disagree adamantly about this but I wired mine with 16 gauge "zip" cord. What was in my mast was not fully "tinned" and it lasted for many years. I did tin the wires where I made connections but I just used regular zip cord. (This is the cord used to wire lamps and appliances). My mast is rarely underwater and I hope it will remain that way. I just twisted and taped the new wire to the old wire and pulled it in.
hello all
when I rewired my mast, I used an electricians flat metal fish tape that is used in houses.... I just fed it up through the inside of the mast, taped (grey duck tape) the wiring to the metal tape and pulled it through.... make sure you add extra wiring to the length so you have some room to work with the wiring.... I ran 4 wires with zip ties on it throught my mast, also had 2 internal halyards too.... no problems getting it done.... the zip ties are to hold the wires together and prevent them from slapping inside the mast.... every 3 to 4 ft, with 3 ties together in opposite directions.... this also helps to quiet the halyards inside the mast too....
if your mast is still upright when you do this... then use a heavy weight on a string/cord and drop it down the inside of the mast like the electricians flat fish tape....
sincerely
Jess
when I rewired my mast, I used an electricians flat metal fish tape that is used in houses.... I just fed it up through the inside of the mast, taped (grey duck tape) the wiring to the metal tape and pulled it through.... make sure you add extra wiring to the length so you have some room to work with the wiring.... I ran 4 wires with zip ties on it throught my mast, also had 2 internal halyards too.... no problems getting it done.... the zip ties are to hold the wires together and prevent them from slapping inside the mast.... every 3 to 4 ft, with 3 ties together in opposite directions.... this also helps to quiet the halyards inside the mast too....
if your mast is still upright when you do this... then use a heavy weight on a string/cord and drop it down the inside of the mast like the electricians flat fish tape....
sincerely
Jess