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Mainsheet system and reeving

Discussion in 'Catalina 30' started by kbgunn, Jun 17, 2018. Add this thread to a FAQ

  1. kbgunn

    kbgunn

    Joined Sep 19, 2017
    104 posts, 37 likes
    Catalina 1986 30 TR
    4410 US Lake Lewisville
    My 1986 Catalina 30 TR/SK has mid boom sheeting and a Garhauer traveler. The main sheet setup from the PO seems very complicated and doesn't easily ease out all the way for runs. Also, when trimming in, most times the various blocks don't sheet evenly and jam up when sheeting in.... I've posted pics below:
    [​IMG]
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    [​IMG]

    Is there a way to simplify what I've got without buying new blocks? I like having the cam cleat at the fiddle block. Can I re-route the reeving to get better operation?

    KBG
     


  2. jssailem

    jssailem

    Joined Oct 22, 2014
    6,938 posts, 2,599 likes
    CAL 35 Cruiser
    US Salem, Moored Port Everett WA
    @kbgunn unlikely a reroute will have much impact. You can go to a smaller diameter lighter line. That will make it easier for the line to run through the blocks.
    Note the multiple contact points (3) on the boom is to spread the force of the Mainsheet control over a wide space on the boom. If only one point is used you can break the boom in two.
    Trim adjustments are set the Mainsheet then adjust using the traveler.
     


  3. Jackdaw

    Jackdaw

    Joined Nov 8, 2010
    9,560 posts, 2,612 likes
    Beneteau First 36.7 & 260
    US Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
    Oh that’s a Rube Goldberg setup. The thick squishy line is probably part at fault, as well as that top middle fiddle block with the tiny lower wheel. Don’t underestimate the amount of fiction loss created by all those turns with less than great blocks. It’s a really sticky 8:1 system.
     


  4. jeepbluetj

    jeepbluetj

    Joined Jan 18, 2016
    471 posts, 145 likes
    Catalina 30
    US Dana Point
    I know you said you don't want to buy new blocks - but I bet you need new blocks. Those look like the stock blocks that came with the boat - mine were shot. Garhaurer can fix you up.
     


  5. Joe

    Joe

    Joined Jun 1, 2004
    6,556 posts, 362 likes
    Catalina 27
    US Mission Bay, San Diego
    Replace that fiddle block w/becket in the center with a properly sized, side by side double. Lock the swivel on the new blocks shackle so it won't rotate.
    [​IMG]
     


  6. SG

    SG

    Joined Feb 11, 2017
    1,262 posts, 238 likes
    J/Boat J/160
    US Annapolis
    Does that swivel lock?
     


  7. Ward H

    Ward H

    Joined Nov 7, 2011
    1,932 posts, 259 likes
    Catalina 30 Mk III
    US Barnegat, NJ
    The previous comments come from guys with tons more experience than I have but having just set up my C30 mainsheet system I'll offer my comments.

    If it was a reeving problem, those guys would have pointed it out. As they said, smaller line will always run easier so I agree it will help.

    The Garhauer fiddle block with becket and cam cleat isn't the issue. That was a sweet upgrade.

    The real problem is the PO didn't buy matching quality/size blocks to go with it. That one double block with becket and the single blocks are a mix of type and size. Probably the originals as @jeepbluetj pointed out.

    Example, look at how the line fits that fiddle block with cam cleat. Fits fine, you can see the sides of the sheaves in the block. Then look at the forward Lewmar block. You can't see the sheave. That block is too small as is that center double block with becket on the boom. The other single blocks appear to be sized OK for the line size.

    Then loosen the sheet so you can spin each sheave. Compare the ease they spin to the sheaves on that newer Garhauer block. Bet most if not all don't spin well due to not having ball bearings or they are worn out and don't spin easily.

    I'd start by replacing that center fiddle block on the boom as @Joe recommended and the forward Lewmar block with the same size as that double block.
    That would solve the problem of the blocks being to small for the line and add ball bearings to 3 of the turning points.
    Garhauer's series 30 and series 40 blocks can handle up to 1/2" line. The double is only available in a series 40 but you can go with the series 30 for the singles. Single 30s are $35 and the series 40 double is $90.
    That would probably solve most of your problem.
    If the sheet line is 7/16", which was the spec see for the C30, it would be cheaper to go down to 3/8" but I think you would have much less improvement than spending a little more for the two blocks.

    Then if the rest of the single blocks do not have ball bearings, replace them as you can.

    Good luck!
     


  8. Ward H

    Ward H

    Joined Nov 7, 2011
    1,932 posts, 259 likes
    Catalina 30 Mk III
    US Barnegat, NJ
    The spec doesn't say it does but I don't think it needs to in that position.
    The single block spec's do say they can be locked.
     


  9. mortyd

    mortyd

    Joined Dec 11, 2004
    939 posts, 12 likes
    Catalina 30
    US easy living
    you may have a garhauer traveler but you sure don't have a garhauer mainsheet.
     


  10. pateco

    pateco

    Joined Aug 12, 2014
    2,174 posts, 608 likes
    Hunter 31 (1983)
    US Pompano Beach FL
    My main sheet also has three boom connections. Originally it was run through two singles and a becket on the boom with a fiddle on the traveler car, forward along the boom, with two more single blocks and then through the deck organizer, and back to the cabin-top winch and cam cleat. This had a lot of friction, and not much advantage.
    2015-03-22 17.53.10.jpg
    I modified mine so that is has three single blocks on the boom, and a triple with cam and becket on the traveler. I get much better advantage, and it flows in and out more smoothly.
    2015-07-11 18.23.42.jpg
    2017-07-19 19.02.04.jpg
    I think your system is set up with too many blocks. I agree with those who suggest you simplify it. More mechanical advantage than you need, and too much friction.
     


  11. jssailem

    jssailem

    Joined Oct 22, 2014
    6,938 posts, 2,599 likes
    CAL 35 Cruiser
    US Salem, Moored Port Everett WA
    Golly @Ward H, for a guy
    you nailed it.:biggrin:The student has become the teacher.
    The other possibility is that the blocks may not have been cleaned for eons. It is a good idea to occasionally (once every 5-6 years:laugh:) wash out the blocks with mild soap and lots of water.You'll be surprised at what it does.

    The answer is no. You can reduce the affects by changing the line size to more match the blocks you have. You can change the links you are using to connect the blocks to the boom (they are not the standard way to set up these blocks). You can clean the blocks and may be able to lubricate bearings, but the bottom line is the best solution would be to spend money on new blocks for the 8-1 system along the boom. Note you need a more powerful system (8-1 vs 6-1 or 3-1) when your mainsheet system is "Mid-Boom". Changing to a fewer block system will mean more forces required out of crew or skipper to pull in/adjust the mainsheet. When end of boom the system can be less "complicated - fewer blocks" as it requires less force to adjust boom position. But that would put the mainsheet system in the middle of your cockpit. Boats are all about compromise.
     


  12. Stu Jackson

    Stu Jackson

    Joined Feb 26, 2004
    20,098 posts, 675 likes
    Catalina 34
    224 CA Maple Bay, BC, Canada
    Most Catalinas of that vintage came with blocks on the boom that swiveled. Truly dumb. It looks like some of the blocks on the boom swivel, and they shouldn't, because that is one of the contributing factors in the line getting hung up.
     


  13. SG

    SG

    Joined Feb 11, 2017
    1,262 posts, 238 likes
    J/Boat J/160
    US Annapolis
    One issue in reducing from the 8:1 is that you don't have a real winch-it-in option.

    I think that reducing the line (go with a Spectra or other high-tech, low stretch line) to one that will work in your and your crew members' hands. You don't ever want to have to wrap the line around your hand to be able to trim it.
     


  14. Jackdaw

    Jackdaw

    Joined Nov 8, 2010
    9,560 posts, 2,612 likes
    Beneteau First 36.7 & 260
    US Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
    I would NOT go lower than 6:1 on your mid-boom sheet. That's are the very edge ofusefulness on a sail that size with mid-boom sheeting,, and the 'W' arrangement of the sheeting actually makes it less than 6:1! The angle off of vertical decreases purchase.
     


    Last edited: Jun 18, 2018
  15. jssailem

    jssailem

    Joined Oct 22, 2014
    6,938 posts, 2,599 likes
    CAL 35 Cruiser
    US Salem, Moored Port Everett WA
    If you are wrapping the line around you hand you may get in a situation where you will loose your hand. That is why engineers developed the winch.

    You can reduce the force needed with a good series of blocks.
    You can improve your hand grip by increasing the diameter of the line.
    You can improve the efficiency of the current blocks as @Stu Jackson suggests.

    “Your boat your choice” (another Stu’ism)
     


  16. Ward H

    Ward H

    Joined Nov 7, 2011
    1,932 posts, 259 likes
    Catalina 30 Mk III
    US Barnegat, NJ
    That was my thought, the reason for the 8:1 instead of a 6:1 system is by putting the cam cleat on the block, you lose the winch capability.
    My system is 6:1 but goes through 4 more turns to run back to cockpit, like @pateco had, so a winch is needed. I think the reason for this type system is to clear a dodger. I have a triple block on my traveler but the other blocks were non BB so I upgraded to all Garhauer series 40 blocks for singles and single with becket. I also put BB sheaves in the deck organizer.

    @jssailem explained well in one thread that you set the main sheet, then use the traveler to dump air and or when tacking. I didn't really understand it at the time. Then on a recent sail in high winds (18-20 with gusts >25), once the main sheet was set, using the winch to adjust and lock the sheet, we only used the traveler. Worked really well.

    On my O'day 25 I "played" the main sheet. On my C30 I'm "playing" the traveler.

    I'm sure @kbgunn 's system would be fine except whoever upgrade the fiddle block with cam cleat and becket on the traveler reused old blocks that are not ball bearing blocks and are too small for that line. He needs to complete the system upgrade.

    All my single blocks swivel and have been fine but I only have 3-4 hours sailing time on my C30 where I used the main sail. Thanks for the reminder to lock them into position.

    Good answer.
     


    jssailem likes this.
  17. Kingjim91

    Kingjim91

    Joined Jul 6, 2013
    102 posts, 6 likes
    Catalina 30TR
    US Milwaukee
    Here’s the diagram for the original reeling, with the tail run back to the winch.
    I have no issue with 6:1 using the winch.
    C2E553A5-568F-4FD1-9F5D-3059A785BC9F.jpeg
     


  18. kbgunn

    kbgunn

    Joined Sep 19, 2017
    104 posts, 37 likes
    Catalina 1986 30 TR
    4410 US Lake Lewisville
    Awesome. Thanks @Kingjim91 ! The diagram leads me to believe the fiddle block with the smaller sheave at the bottom is definitely original. I think I can move my blocks up from the traveler to the bails on the boom and end up with a 6:1 configuration. That will be a start and I'll adjust from there. Thanks for all of the constructive feedback! This forum is fantastic.
     



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