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MainSheet Blues

Discussion in 'Ask A Beneteau Owner' started by therealbrianf, Mar 13, 2019. Add this thread to a FAQ

  1. therealbrianf

    therealbrianf

    Joined Nov 29, 2016
    10 posts, 0 likes
    Beneteau 281
    Ca Toronto
    Hi everyone,

    We have a 1997 Beneteau 281, with the mainsheet blocks attached directly to the coachroof, no traveler. The mainsheet loops between the boom and the coachroof and then back to the cockpit. Please see the attached illustration.

    We find that pulling on the mainsheet typically just trys to pull the boom downwards, there is very little movement port and/or starboard. It's not unusual to have to move the boom by hand when centering or changing the angle of the sail.

    Does anyone else have this problem and any thoughts on how to improve the performance of the mainsheet, given that we do not have a traveler?

    Regards,

    Brian
    Mainsheet.jpg
     


  2. SG

    SG

    Joined Feb 11, 2017
    1,373 posts, 264 likes
    J/Boat J/160
    US Annapolis
    The mid-boom sheeting doesn't seem like the "normal" sheeting for the Beneteau 281, it's end sheeted for a reason.

    [​IMG]

    The companionway hatch means that the mid-boom sheeting is at the position that is close to where a boom vang would connect. Aside from having a lot of bending moment induced on the boom that wasn't intended, it's apparently left you with a situation where there is way to much tension on the main sheet to allow that boom to move.

    Was this installation by some previous owner, or???

    I think that the only workaround is to not sheet the boom in so tightly through a jib or tack. I suspect that you essentially either live with the boom "too loose" or you have to release and reset it.

    [​IMG]
     


  3. Jackdaw

    Jackdaw

    Joined Nov 8, 2010
    9,844 posts, 2,898 likes
    Beneteau First 36.7 & 260
    US Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
    First you're right, thats not a great setup to start with.

    Second, you can help the cause by having GREAT line as mainsheet (Maffiolli swiftcord) and very low friction blocks.

    But no matter what, it will always want to by design want to pull down more than windward.

    The Third solution is to rig a bridle between the two aft-most blocks, and rig the sheet from the boom to that. Dyneema and a good block. It will greatly limit the downward pull and allow the boom to get very close to centerline. I'd draw a picture but I'm focusing a great class of wine! ;^)

    EDIT - Like this Jeanneau..[​IMG]

    jeanneau-sun-odyssey-349-deck-layout_500x333.jpg
     


  4. Stu Jackson

    Stu Jackson

    Joined Feb 26, 2004
    20,315 posts, 814 likes
    Catalina 34
    224 CA Maple Bay, BC, Canada
    If you don't have a traveler and do have coachroof sheeting, you either need a traveler OR do what jack shows.

    Buy Don Guillete's book, available right here on this site and read why.

    Not necessarily true. If the boat came that way, then all he's saying, and DID say and SHOW, is that he got one of the two versions that were made by the builder. Unless the drawings weren't for that particular boat.
     


  5. therealbrianf

    therealbrianf

    Joined Nov 29, 2016
    10 posts, 0 likes
    Beneteau 281
    Ca Toronto
    Thanks guys,

    The image I included is taken directly from the Beneteau 281 manual.
    Thanks for your advice, will look more closely at these options today.
    I've also seen this setup suggested. Would very much appreciate your thoughts on it.
    Mainsheet bridle2.jpg
    Regards,

    Brian
     


  6. jwing

    jwing

    Joined Jun 5, 2014
    454 posts, 189 likes
    ODay Mariner
    US Guntersville
    I have the same problem on my boat, so I rigged a bridle similar to the one shown in Jackdaw's Post #3. It was a big improvement in performance, comfort, and safety. Keep in mind that the main sheet will lose some of its functionality as a leech shape controller and will serve more as a port/starboard trimming control. In other words, the mainsheet acts as a pseudo traveler. The vang then takes on more duty as the leech shape controller. I found that my vang was inadequate for that duty and I needed an upgrade.

    I think that the rig shown in Post #5 will work about the same as the one in Post #3.

    I offer this information to you as anecdotal data. My boat is much smaller than the Beneteau 281. The configuration of my boat allowed me to rig the bridle at the clew end of the boom and I bring the mainsheet forward to mid-boom so it is easy to reach from anywhere in the cockpit.
     


  7. Jackdaw

    Jackdaw

    Joined Nov 8, 2010
    9,844 posts, 2,898 likes
    Beneteau First 36.7 & 260
    US Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
    That’s basically identical to the Jeanneau picture I posted. It’s just uses more blocks on the boom, probably to help support the load of mid boom sheeting. The blocks on the cabin top are probably unnecessary. Those individual lines could either be terminated there, or simply let the dyneema roll over the stainless steel.
     


  8. Stu Jackson

    Stu Jackson

    Joined Feb 26, 2004
    20,315 posts, 814 likes
    Catalina 34
    224 CA Maple Bay, BC, Canada
    Won't much change the geometry of the issue you first described. That's why they make "real" travelers. :) www.garhauer.com -- best value in boat hardware.
     


  9. Jackdaw

    Jackdaw

    Joined Nov 8, 2010
    9,844 posts, 2,898 likes
    Beneteau First 36.7 & 260
    US Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
    On the other hand, I’ve never seen a cabin top traveler that was wide enough or easy enough to use to really warrant the name ‘traveler’. Simply too many compromises . On most boats I think the bridle and a good vang is a better choice. With well-thought-out geometry you can get the boom very close to the centerline and still have control over the leech. A great solution for all what serious racers.
     


  10. Stu Jackson

    Stu Jackson

    Joined Feb 26, 2004
    20,315 posts, 814 likes
    Catalina 34
    224 CA Maple Bay, BC, Canada
    Then you've never seen my boat. Wide traveler, extremely useful. It's twice the length of a Beneteau traveler on the same size boat.
    True, a great compromise, too. :)
     


  11. jwing

    jwing

    Joined Jun 5, 2014
    454 posts, 189 likes
    ODay Mariner
    US Guntersville
    Apparently, you have not sailed a boat that has a bridled mainsheet system. It is a great improvement over no traveler/no bridle. A traveler is a slight improvement over the bridle. If there is room on the boat and plenty of money in the budget, get a traveler. A bridle is cheap, easy, and uses less space.
     


  12. Jackdaw

    Jackdaw

    Joined Nov 8, 2010
    9,844 posts, 2,898 likes
    Beneteau First 36.7 & 260
    US Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
    Knowing you I'm sure its a swell setup!

    To me a good traveler has three characteristics:

    1) Wide range of motion around the centerline, a) to pull above the CL upwind, and to dump below in pressure
    2) Strong purchase and blocks to make it a hand load as long as possible (40 feet?)

    The tricky one is 3) Well placed to allow it to be played easily with the main. This is were I see cabintop travelers suffer. The traveler location situates the user in the pit area, and also assures that the mainsheet will be on a winch at the cabintop as well, making the situation double clumsy.

    I know that boats that are like that are designed that way for good reasons, but man there is nothing like a maintrimmer sitting next to the driver on the rail, mainsheet in one hand and traveler line in the other. The trimmer can feel the puff and the drivers reaction, and can instantly react to minimize rudder movement. Two identical boat going to windward on a puffy day, one like this and the other cabintop trimmed, all else equal I know who's going to win.
     


    jon hansen likes this.
  13. Gunni

    Gunni

    Joined Mar 16, 2010
    5,836 posts, 1,434 likes
    Beneteau 411 Oceanis
    US Annapolis
    If my trimmer is sitting next to the driver with travel and mainsheet lines in hand I’m going to tell her to calm down and go get a beer!

    Travel well down and vang tight when off the wind, travel up to power twist the sail in light winds, center up when we need to flatten the sail. Heck I can do that with a cigar in one hand. But then the only win we need is an early arrival at the anchorage to get a spot near the dinghy dock.

    If you have an 11 ton boat and you want to keep the boxcar on the rails, a nice traveler makes it a one man job, driver included.
     


  14. Jackdaw

    Jackdaw

    Joined Nov 8, 2010
    9,844 posts, 2,898 likes
    Beneteau First 36.7 & 260
    US Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
    Point taken.

    But I will always start at the point of max performance/capability. You can always back off if your want to, but you can never add what was never there.
     


  15. Meriachee

    Meriachee

    Joined Aug 1, 2011
    3,118 posts, 1,012 likes
    Catalina 270
    CA Wabamun - on the orange ball
    You can always upgrade what is there. Since putting the Garhauer traveler upgrade on the 270, and seeing as how it went to a 5:1, and with the redesign moving all the forces into a single plane, the ability to actually use the traveler without a winch handy turned it into one of the most used, and useful tools on the boat.

    Little changes can yield large, sometimes unexpected results.
     


  16. Stu Jackson

    Stu Jackson

    Joined Feb 26, 2004
    20,315 posts, 814 likes
    Catalina 34
    224 CA Maple Bay, BC, Canada
    I understand your performance POV. I had that on my Catalina 22 & 25!!! :) End boom sheeting, tillers, all right there. :)

    But, as you know, I am a proponent of "Don't be slave behind the wheel." I run my boat from in front of the wheel. The "pits" it is not! :) I do not use the winch for the traveler because as meriachee says my traveler has a 5:1 or 6:1 purchase. I moved the cam cleats for the traveler to the aft edge of the cabintop.

    Your boat, your choice. :)

    Oh, I won a few races that way, too...

    And it's true: No traveler single point>>>no traveler bridle ideas 1 then 2>>>real traveler

    Good luck.
     


    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019 at 6:24 PM
  17. NYSail

    NYSail

    Joined Jan 6, 2006
    1,960 posts, 154 likes
    Beneteau 423
    US Mt. Sinai, NY
    In the picture you posted looks like plenty of space for a traveler....
     




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