Mac 26d engine mount

Sumner · Aug 18, 2017

First off a minor point, but your info under your name says you have a S and the post says a D. In this case they are about the same deal but for other things it might help to know if you have a S or a D.

You say you want to have something 'cleaner'. Not sure if that means you don't want to make a mount like some of us have done to move the outboard a little so that it can swing or that you want to buy a manufactured mount? If you are looking for a manufactured mount I believe some have been mentioned on the following thread recently...

https://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/maximum-motor-size-for-mac-26s.186799/

Also on that thread you will find what some of us have done to make mounts and to also connect the outboard to the tiller at times of need.

Good luck and be sure to add what you do so others will have another option to choose from,

Sumner
===================================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/endeavour-main/endeavour-index.html
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas

Sumner · Aug 18, 2017

Captaindon1991 said:
.. I have a 26d when I made the account I was purchasing an s ended up with a D...

Both are good

, both at the same time might still be good

,

Sumner
=================================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/endeavour-main/endeavour-index.html
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas

Benny17441 · Aug 18, 2017

Not sure if I follow your trend of thought but on most sailboat applications the outboard the engine is fixed in position and the boat is steered by the rudder. This is the reason why the engine well in your boat may not have incorporated in its design for allowing the engine to be turned. A boat that lacks a rudder is turned by directing the outboard thrust but a sailboat has a large rudder capable of turning the boat as long as there is some water passing through it. It is part of the art of sailing in learning to maneuver a boat at slow speed. I have seen gizmos that tie the outboard engine to the rudder so that both can be turned in sync by the tiller or wheel but I have not seen one that solves more problems than it creates. Almost all auxiliary outboards provide a mechanism to lock the foot in position. In an inboard the propeller sits at the center of the boat just ahead of the rudder. The propeller creates water movement that can be directed by the rudder which provides a fairly efficient method to steer the boat. An outboard is usually offset to a side and its thrust cannot be directed by the rudder; the only thing which affects the steering is the water passing by the rudder as the boat gains way. The engine with the foot locked in a fix position can make the boat move forward or backwards and the trick is to wait until the boat has gained enough speed to engage the rudder. In close quarters this is usually done at slow speed barely above idle speed. If you gun the engine nothing will happen at first and then the boat will accelerate quite fast making maneuvering much more difficult. It takes practice but once you master you will not have to worry again about which way to turn the engine and rudder in sync. The only time a boat should be steered by the outboard is if it looses its rudder. A power boat with adequate horsepower can be steered but a sailboat lacking that power can only be brought into a desired position by anticipating and using the effects of wind and current in conjunction with diminished inputs of power and rudder. A sailor docking his boat has usually gauged the prevalent conditions and formulated a plan and back up plan to bail if the attempt fails before he begins the maneuver.

Sumner · Aug 18, 2017

Benny I'll agree that it is wise to try and learn how to control the boat with or without the outboard. Saying that the displacement hull Macs do respond well to outboard input in challenging situations.

One problem with the well is the larger newer electric start outboards don't swing much in the well so steering with them is limited except if you modify how you mount them to the transom like some of us have done. With that modification you gain a lot of control over the boat in difficult situations. 6 HP and less or older non-electric start outboards do swing in the well on the S and D as they are smaller.

I also have made a connector that can be put in place between the tiller and the outboard in seconds and it also further simplifies controlling the tiller and the outboard. Ruth use to have a hard time reaching both and also remembering which way they both turned. She was at the tiller whenever we anchored or docked. She really appreciated the mod. Now that Dottie has also taken over the helm it has helped her a lot also.

In most docking and/or anchoring situations I or Dottie will take the few seconds it takes to attach the connector. We have it, so will use it, since there is so much more control over the boat. Also a couple times under difficult situations motoring into wind/waves the autopilot couldn't handle steerage on the tiller alone. Attaching the outboard to the tiller so that the autopilot was steering both made it possible for the autopilot to handle things. 95% of the time if we are motoring the outboard is locked straight ahead and all steerage is with the tiller.

There is more on the linkage here along with a couple videos of it ...

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/outside-29.html

Sumner
==================================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/endeavour-main/endeavour-index.html
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas

Crazy Dave Condon · Aug 19, 2017

The original post only said 8 hp Nissan which I know as I was a dealer for that as it is made by Tohatsu but does not state if 2 or 4 stroke. That of course is important as the 4 stroke engines are heavier and the older Outboard motor brackets have smaller springs in them. As for turning the engine even some of the best want to be able to turn the engine due to close quarters and sometimes those fools who do not know right of way or going tooo fast they want to either turn quickly to get out of the way or what ever. I personally would opt to be able to turn the engine freely. That of course if connected to the tiller in the marina I would disconnect that.

walt · Aug 19, 2017

the marina I launch from is steep and narrow two boats side by side with rock jetties on both sides that go past the end of the docks and the wind always blows across the launch and well no way to spin the boat around in the launch area to leave the marina forwards so I'm forced to leave the boat ramp in reverse and well you cant get enough speed to use the rudder in reverse and the rocks come very fast... I don't wanna be the guy with a 26 ft sailboat smashing on the rocks lmao...

You have a perfect application for needing to rotate the outboard. You said you did your research so I have no idea what modifications you have already rejected but go back and look at the thread that Sumner first posted. About the only way to not need to rotate the outboard in a tight spot like you have is to come in fast so the rudder "works" and stop fast. Do that enough times and eventually you are going to have some drama. You will have huge better control of the boat if you can rotate the outboard along with the rudder and it can be done on that boat with the stock V cutout on the transom.

There is a reason for the poor control when going slow with this boat. It has fairly high aspect foils (rudder and dagger board) and these work by creating lift. Take a look at the equations for lift and its dependent on angle of attack and the square of the speed. So to keep the same lift as the boat goes slower, the angle of attack of the foil really has to change much more for the same lift than it does at a higher speed. The high angle of attack required when going slow is prone to stall and the foil stops working.

don't have to lay on the back to steer the boat

I have the same boat and didnt really understand this. I just sit on the same side as the outboard and as far back as I can get and can easily reach over, raise the outboard control handle and rotate while still running the rudder. I dont have any linkage simply because the only time I need to rotate the rudder is for the last couple turns getting into a slip and I dont want to bother with the hassle of some sort of linkage.. that I also think is not really needed. Sumner can correct me but I think he needed it for special application (5 ft 70 yo partner who sits opposite the outboard to steer the boat).

You may have also already found this out but for that tight maneuvering, you need to have at least some dagger board down. I have the swing centerboard so dont know how much. But if I have my centerboard all the way retracted.. the boat is very difficult to steer at all.

Where do you sit to control the outboard? I would think even limited rotation would be a benifit.

Sumner · Aug 19, 2017

Crazy Dave Condon said:
...... That of course if connected to the tiller in the marina I would disconnect that.

Wondering why you would disconnect it when you might need the most maneuverability? I've only stayed in a marina once, in Bimini, and since I had a small boat they put me in a very difficult slip to keep the easy ones for the larger sailboats. I was glad that getting into and out of it I had the outboard turning at the same time as the rudder.

I've been in other marinas to get gas and the same there. Nice to have the turning ability.

Due to our shallow draft and the fact that we can beach the boat we often go into places most sailboats won't venture into. We need to sometimes run in reverse some distance before being able to turn the boat around. Being able to use the outboard and rudder at the same time is a big benefit in these situations. If you are tall enough and can reach both that is an option but if you aren't or inexperienced the connector sure helps. I can reach both but ....

.... use the connector since it goes on/off so easily. Using both together the Mac can turn around in almost a boat length.

Sumner
================================================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas

BudGates · Aug 19, 2017

walt said:
You may have also already found this out but for that tight maneuvering, you need to have at least some dagger board down.

I find that I need about 1 foot of daggerboard for decent control.

When I had my V-222 I had an awful time trying to reach both the shift lever and the throttle/tiller while making the tight turns to get into my slip. To remedy this I purchased a used outboard remote control box and installed linkage to tie the outboard to the tiller. It made my life so much easier that when I upgraded to my 26d I kept both mods. I always keep the linkage attached when the outboard is in the water.

Joe · Aug 19, 2017

Here's an off the wall comment... if you're just need the turning ability to get in and out of the dock.... why not find an inexpensive trolling motor to drop over the side?

BudGates · Aug 20, 2017

Captaindon1991 said:
Budgates do you have a picture of your remote control box linkage setup of like to see that ???

Unfortunately I'm not as good as Sumner about documenting my work and I sold the outboard a year ago. Not wanting to reinvent the wheel, the new outboard that I purchased came with it's own remote control along with electric start, power tilt, fuel injection...

I'm assuming that you are more interested in the linkage but all I have is the a picture of the control box in each of the cockpits.

Sumner · Aug 20, 2017

BudGates said:
.....all I have is the a picture of the control box in each of the cockpits.

Do you remember what the control unit came off of and what outboard did you have at the time with it? Thanks,

Sumner
==============================================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/endeavour-main/endeavour-index.html
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas

BudGates · Aug 21, 2017

Sumner said:
Do you remember what the control unit came off of and what outboard did you have at the time with it? Thanks,

Sumner

The control unit came from eBay. (No idea what make or model outboard it was on originally.) I installed it on a 1975 Honda FG100.

BudGates · Aug 24, 2017

I finally got an opportunity to take a few pictures of my tiller to outboard linkage today.

Linkage in use:
Also shows the modified outboard tiller that allows full tilt and rotation.
The bungee cord helps eliminate rattling.

Linkage stored on tiller when not in use:

Linkage as purchased:
It's marketed for steering trolling motors but works great for linking the outboard to my tiller.

vizwhiz · Aug 24, 2017

I used the same brand linkage Budgates did...which i figured out how to connect from what Sumner did...

In my case, i got a slightly longer linkage and bent it twice (two 45-degree bends) to make it reach down to where the front of the motor has a handle of sorts already cast in. I have some tweaking to do, but it works well enough to prove the concept.

I leave my rudder up (i have a line with pulleys to make it easy) and use ONLY the motor linked to the tiller when launching and final docking in the marina. I treat it like a power boat. I lock the tilt so I can quickly shift to reverse and gun it if needed to avoid a collision. Not a purist thing, but with the crazies standing off twenty feet behind me in their 35' center console fishing boats, i don't want to risk a maneuverability issue. I also drop the swing keel a hair.

Once I've cleared the docks and boats, I immediately lock the outboard straight, release the tilt lock, remove the connector linkage (both ends) and leave the linkage down in the motorwell in front of the engine. It's heavy and tends to stay put under the fuel line and such. I drop the rudder, secure the downhaul, drop the centerboard, and putter my way on out the channel, now steering with the rudder only.

A couple of other comments:
(1) another reason for wanting to be able to link the tiller to the outboard is that the Mac26D/S boats are very shallow draft, beachable boats. I've sailed mine into 2-1/2' of water on the flats to anchor for the night. Have to pull up the centerboard and the rudder to get there though. So having the tiller attached to the motor allows one to maneuver the boat in the shallows...and get back out to where the wind is the next morning!
(2) I understand the feeling of laying down in the motorwell to reach the motor...and i'm pretty lanky! But another issue that goes along with sitting all the way back on the port seat against the laz to manage the motor is that you can't pull the tiller into your stomach to turn hard to starboard. Ooomph! That hurts... (This may be an issue reserved for those of us with a little extra flotation around the middle.) So especially when docking, not as much when launching, i tend to stand up so i can see better over the bow, or sit forward of the tiller end so i can make full sweeps either direction. And that makes it a laying-down lunge into the motor well if i have to throw the gear lever.