Lancer PS Outboard

[btdg28]

Lancer 27PS Outboard Feedback

We have owned our power sailor for about 3 years now and really like the design of the boat. In our price range when we bought it it was really the best option for us. About 6 months ago we decided that either we were going to upgrade to a newer boat or update it. We decided to keep her and started refinishing and updating a few things, had a bimini top built for her, custom sea deck padding made for the swim step and cockpit, new electronics etc.



Now we're thinking about the motor. currently the boat has a Honda 9.9 which needs some work. We're thinking of upgrading to somewhere between at 30 and 50 horse outboard. but I know many of you have similarly sized outboards on your Lancers and wanted to get an opinion of how you thought your boat ran with these bigger motors. My thinking is that if we could do 10 to 12 knots cruising when we want a motor it would completely change our experience with this boat and what we could do with it. I realize it'll never be a powerboat and we don't want it to be. but given there's not exactly another Lancer out there with a larger motor on it I can test drive any feedback would be great.



Also as kind of a side survey are you guys running 3 or 4 blade props? one guy I spoke with at our local Marine Center who claims to be good with power sailors says they should always be running a 4 blade prop. Which is what we have now but I understand that it can limit the speed of the boat. from photos I've seen online of other power sailors most seem to be running a 3 blade prop.

 

[Jalepeno]

If you want a power boat, go buy a power boat.

Your Lancer is a displacement hull sailboat of about 5,000lb with a water line length of 22’-0”. A 10HP motor (5000# / 500# / HP = 10PH) should be able to propel her to your theoretical hull speed of 6.3kts (sq root of 22ft x 1.34 = 6.3kts) depending on wind and sea state. Normally you cannot go faster for your hull length unless you have a planning hull like a power boat no matter how large a motor you use. A bigger motor is just an unsafe waste of money.

If you want to go faster, get a longer sailboat with a clean bottom. or simply buy a flat bottom power boat.


http://tomdove.com/sailcalc/sailcalc.html

 

[btdg28]

Thank you for your response. I understand your logic and know that our power sailor is not going to plane like a powerboat nor are we trying to turn it into one. The thinking was if anything to turn it back into more power sailor it originally was. The way I understand it this boat came originally from Lancer with a 110 horsepower outboard motor and the owner before us had a 70 horsepower outboard, until it went out and they switched it over to this 9.9. While we are not looking to go nearly that big I know a lot of other Lancer 27PS owners on this forum do have bigger motors on their boats. So really I'm just looking for some feedback from them before deciding on either servicing and rebuilding our current motor or perhaps stepping up just a bit.


Brian

 

[Brian D]

Brian, they switched to the 9.9 on my recommendation. The 70 they originally had was not really doing anything for them, except eating gas. I remember them coming over to me and asking if the 70 was really needed. I told them that my 9.9 did the job perfectly. They went with the Honda instead of the Yamaha.

Now I am sure you know that the L27PS will handle up to 140 HP. Back in the 80's that was the fashionable thing to have. Fast boat to get to Catalina Island, but a sail boat for those leisurely days. Times have changed and gas is still expensive.

I don't think a 30 HP will get you anymore performance than the 9.9 is getting you. But the choice is yours. Might I recommend a day trip to Dana Point or a trip to Mission Bay. This will tell you if you really want to move up to a bigger engine.

And if you are wondering where I went, I moved over to Camp Pendleton the first of November. My best to Joy!

 

[btdg28]

Hey Brian, thank you for the advice. I figured that's where you had gone, best of luck over there. I'm sure we'll see you around.

 

[Shellback]

Hi btdg,
I went through an almost identical process with my 27ps. I upgraded my outboard to a 40hp yamaha 2 stroke long shaft. Here's my cliffs notes:
- glad I did it!
- get an extra long shaft. When I hit swells greater than 3 feet with a moderate frequency, the prop comes out of the water. I make it work, but would have no worries with an extra long shaft.
- drinks gas. Get the newest outboard you can afford and with EFI, no carbs. I have 1986 outboard with carbs. It's drinks gas! The used outboard market on Lake Erie is slim pickings. I took what I could get. It consumes 4 times the fuel of my 1986 yamaha 9.9 4stroke.
- Lancer owners manual chart is dead on. The chart in the owners manual was exactly correct in estimating the speed I would get for the HP.
- Powers well in a straight line. At 10mph she goes straight really well but turning gets exciting some times.

In summary, I love having the "power" component of the 27ps. The three things I would do differently are 1-extra long shaft, 2-lose the carbs and get a newer model, 3-go with a 50-90hp.
Todd

 

[btdg28]

Thank you for the response Todd,


That is exactly the type of feedback I'm looking for. If we do this I am thinking that we would go with a newer Honda 50 with a 25" shaft. Seems to have good power without adding a ton of weight plus we would be able to reuse the controls from our current Honda 9.9.


Brian

 

[btdg28]

Quick update on this post I found a newer Honda 50 that I will likely be picking up but it has no prop. I certainly want to go stainless but what size and pitch would you guys recommend?

 

[Brian D]

According to Honda website, for your size motor, stainless steel...

B = Blades
D = Diameter
P = Pitch
R = Right Hand
Propeller Dimension
B D P R Honda Part Number
3 12 1/4 9 R 59133-ZV5-009AH
3 12 10 R 59133-ZV5-010AH
3 11 3/4 11 R 59133-ZV5-011AH
3 11 1/2 12 R 59133-ZV5-012AH
3 11.125 13 R 59133-ZV5-013AH
3 11.125 14 R 59133-ZV5-014AH
3 11 15 R 59133-ZV5-015AH
3 10 3/4 16 R 59133-ZV5-016AH
3 11 17 R 59133-ZV5-017AH

Might what to check with the Oside Marine Center and see what they recommend, or even West Marine.

 

[btdg28]

An update on this post along with a quick review. I went ahead with the Honda BF50 and wanted to share my feedback after a few months usage for anyone else looking to do the same.


Pros:

First off as predicted 50 horsepower does not exactly turn this Power Sailor in to a power boat. We were averaging about 3-4 knots cruising speed with the 9.9 and a solid 7-8 knots with the 50 (9-10 knots at full throttle depending on conditions). We still have to fine tune somethings still however starting with the prop. With our 12x10 Stainless prop we are maxing out at 5k RPMs this engine doesn't make 50hp until 6k. So I may look at picking up a prop with a lower pitch. But overall I am happy with the speed we now have the ability to motor on a calm day at twice our previous speed or motor back into the harbor quickly when sailing and swells start picking up. My wife will start getting seasick easily in choppy conditions so she is definitely happy about this upgrade.


The biggest benefit to the larger motor on this boat is not speed but control. This aspect is night and day. Maybe it is the design of the boat but it always felt underpowered to me. With the 9.9 we seemed to be easily pushed around by currents sometimes even in the harbor. Trying to motor through chop or high winds we would be bobbing around like a cork at the mercy of these conditions. With the new engine it really feels like I am in control at all times. I can not overstate enough how much more solid our Lancer now feels under power.


Cons:

Only a few things to note here starting with the price. Outboards aren't cheap even if you are able to come across what I considered to be a deal and this is an older boat. If we decide to sell in the near future I would likely reinstall the 9.9 and sell it with that engine. I doubt this boat is worth much more with the bigger motor.


Fuel consumption. For us this could go either way as a pro or a con, I guess we will find out if we ever take a really long trip. But we are definitely going through our tank at much higher clip. With the 9.9 we filled up our tank in early 2014 and in bit over a year we had probably gone through a quarter tank. I was actually getting concerned that our fuel might go bad. That shouldn't be problem any more as we have burned through much more than that in just 4 or 5 outings with the BF50. I still have to do an exact assessment but I would say that we are easily going through fuel at 3 to 4 times the rate we used to.

Our wake. Kind of just a visual thing and very much related to our much increased fuel consumption I'm sure. If you were just look at the wake behind our boat at full throttle you would probably think that we are doing 30 knots. I'm sure that this looks kind of funny to other boaters from a distance. I joked to some of the neighbors on our dock that we were towing a Jacuzzi.


Overall though I would say that we are happy and would recommend this upgrade to anyone thinking to do the same with their Lancer.


I may post some before and after videos down the road. I have them just need to find the time for editing. If so I will link them to this thread.

 

[Brian D]

Thanks for the update, Brian. Sorry to hear that Joy finds no joy in rough seas. Good to know though that you enjoy the larger engine.

Did you do any research on the fuel consumption for that motor? One test you can do is get a 2 gallon fuel tank and fill it up. Connect it to the motor and see how long it last going at WOT. That should just about give you the GPH figure. Not accurate or very scientific, but a general idea.

Good luck!

 

[btdg28]

I was not able to find a fuel rating for that motor. But will try that test sometime. Some people have suggested trying either a hydrofoil or one of those stainless power thrusters. I know the other Lancer in our Harbor uses one on his motor so maybe I will have to have a conversation with him for his feedback.