Keel separation or bad fairing?

[danneskjold08094]

I’m looking at purchasing a 1995 Catalina 32 and I had my first in person look at the boat today. I noticed a visible line at the keel-hull stub joint that concerns me. Photos attached. I’ve never seen a Catalina smile in person so I’m asking for opinions. Is this just bad fairing or the beginning of a keel separation issue?
The bottom was painted recently, so they my be trying to cover something up.
I’ve added photos of the keel bots from inside. The backing plates don’t look standard to me.

 

[Calif. Ted]

320's never had the Catalina Smile problem, I agree something is wrong, especially that crack at the aft end of the keel. There's an awful lot of "texture" going on there, looks like someone slathered something on it, maybe just paint. Here's the only photo I have of mine for comparison.

 

[danneskjold08094]

Calif. Ted, thanks for your thoughts. What do you know about the plates under the keel bolts in the bilge? Are they standard?

 

[Calif. Ted]

In 95 at hull #246 engines were changed from Perkins to Westerbeke and the shallow grid pan and bilge deepened to allow better drainage to the bilge, prior boats had an area under the galley that could collect water. The bolts and nuts are factory, impossible to replace bolts because they are J-bolts cast in the keel. The material of the backing plates looks the same, only thing gives me pause are the plates with 2 bolts. My boat with the deeper bilge doesn't have the crosswise plates, but maybe they did the shallow bilges that way. It looks like a good idea but a little trickier to build getting all the holes to line up with the pre-cast bolts.

 

[OS2Dude]

What did the surveyor say? (And does he have experience with Catalina keels?)
​

Is a 95 a 320 or plain 32? Assuming the J-Bolts are held in place by a jig while the lead is poured and cooled, it should not be that hard to be able to pre-drill backing plates to the same distance. (They do it for the keel stub....)
If it really concerns you, call Catalina Yachts and ask their opinion.

 

[Barnacle Bill]

A call to Catalina will tell you what is standard and what isn't.

 

[WKW]

I'm absolutely obsessed with the Catalina 320. I've been looking at the 1998+ years for the design changes I almost pulled the trigger on a beautifully maintained 2000' 320 for $45,000... 380 hours on the engine, unused interior, and the bilge was dry as a bone while that boat sat in a slip through rain storms. Contract just needed my signature! Due to work schedule and logistics I regretfully passed on it. Now I have decided on the 2001+ years for the keel change (4'4" draft)...unfortunately they are expensive. I've seen many 320's shopping around and what you have here is more common on the 320 than one would admit. Catalina had their head up the a%% when deciding on backing plate materials (My 40 year old O'day keel bolt backing plates looked better). Every 320 I see has crappy backing plates some with fairing compound glopped messy around them. I've seen quite a few Hunter and Beneteau bilges and their keel bolt plates look very very nice While not the classic Catalina smile, it's very common for the 320 to have the same keel joint seam as yours (99' and older). Maybe they just did a better job fairing on the 2000's up, but then again I saw a 2004 320 with a perfectly smooth joint and a fine hairline crack forward end of the keel joint ...almost like it would become a classic Catalina smile. I can see this hairline getting worse and a boat yard doing shoddy work making it look ugly. I saw a 1998 C320 with the exact crack on the aft end of the keel like yours...it also had a faint crack inside the bilge in the same location as the keel crack. Another thing to watch for on C320's is "hull to transom" seam. This is done with glass work and fairing during the building process. Some C320's show a faint discoloration on the hull following the entire transom from port to starboard not matching the gelcoat color well....on other's it downright concerning with cracks following this seam. There is a lot of load on this transom and this is no good! I'll share a pic or two. maybe in a separate comment.

 

[WKW]

2000 C320 with the typical rusty backing plate...not the C320 I was to buy.

 

[WKW]

1998 C320 typical rust and gloppy fairing and paint and concerning crack on aft keel bolt.

 

[WKW]

Port side hull to transom seam with cracks....I've seen many with discoloration in this area and here it has started with cracking ....probably due to stress loads and a poor job with glass and fairing

 

[WKW]

Yep, starboard too

 

[WKW]

Here we have a good example of the transom to hull discoloration before the stress cracks start showing up....this is on a 2000 C320...Strangely this one has discoloration around the thru-hull too! C'mon Catalina!!!! for sale if you would like it

 

[MIGuy]

The backing plates are the original/standard ones. I have a 1994 Catalina 320 (hull #32) that had the same issue upon purchase. My keel bolts/plates inside did not look as rusty, but I had bad keel separation especially at the aft end. We had $3100 of repair done locally (after conferring with Catalina Yachts) involving grinding away the entire hull/keel interface, a substantial filling with thickened epoxy, several layers of fiberglass extending about a foot both onto the hull and keel, barrier coating and then final bottom painting with VC-17. The repair was done while the boat hung on straps of the travel lift (so that the crack stayed open). Note that I have 10 keel bolts and I found out that others have 11 bolts (with the extra being in the aft end which I believe provided better support).

 

[WKW]

320's never had the Catalina Smile problem, I agree something is wrong, especially that crack at the aft end of the keel. There's an awful lot of "texture" going on there, looks like someone slathered something on it, maybe just paint.

Oooohhhhh yes they do........I've seen lots of C 320's with the "Catalina Smile"...even a 2004 Catalina 320! Actually, I don't understand why Catalina still has this issue with newer production boats. Is it their trademark?