Keel issues on O'Day 322?

[Tally Ho]

A few years ago, I missed out on the opportunity to purchase a 1987 O'Day 322. I had done a lot of research at the time, and there seemed to be a few (hopefully) isolated issues with the keel to stub keel joint. In the worst case, the keel separated and the boat sank (or nearly sank).

The folks that beat me to the punch a few years ago called me to say they are moving and plan to sell their 322. I am considering whether or not I want to try to buy her (I have another boat now, so have some things to juggle around if I really want to purchase her), but in the meantime, I think that there were about 280 some 322's made....so I am hoping a few current to past owners can comment on any keel issues you had with the 322.

I really like the layout of the boat, but sure would hate to buy something with a major keel issue. I will certainly inspect the boat, and will have her surveyed, but since she is in the water, it will be hard to see much at the keel joint.

So, any 322 owners out there that have any reports on the keel and joint?

Greg

 

[Golden Road]

IMHO, fin keels are the most significant problems on production sailboats since the late 70's. This has been brought to light once again with the loss of the Beneteau 41 "Cheeki Rafiki" with all hands recently. (Google for info, or go to article in Practical Sailor blog.) If buying a fin keel of any age, have the boat hauled out and the keel checked thoroughly. The yard here in Stonington (Dodson's) gets the boat up on the travel lift and then attempts to move the keel laterally. There should be no movement, no hinging or cracking at seam or bilge turn, and no evidence of hard impact (grounding). Iron keels are particularly problematic as they don't absorb shock like lead, and the keel hull joint is usually prone to rust degradation, because of poor coating practices. However, lead keels have stainless connecting bolts buried within, thereby making assesment of corrosion difficult, as stainless corrodes itself if deprived of oxygen.

 

[Capn Pete]

Greg,

I've owned my 322 since '04, and other than paying attention to the keel bolts, I've not had any issue with the keel itself.

A reliable surveyor is well worth the bucks. If the boat passes, I think you'll be very happy with a 322.

Pete
s/v EmmieLou (O-322)
Staten Island, NY

 

[Surveyor]

I just sold my 322. I owned her for 5 years and never had an issue with the keel to hull joint, that said I would not have felt comfortable taking her offshore other than for day sails, partially because of the knowledge that those (buried) keel bolts are 304 stainless like the rest of the fasteners and rails on the boat. My boat had such severe crevice corrosion particularly on all 4 bow rail feet and fasteners that I kept the bow rail feet to show my customers what crevice corrosion looks like and how quickly 1/8" stainless can be rendered useless. I developed a healthy mistrust of late eighties 304 stainless and Odays of that vintage. Oday was owned by Lear in that time period.
The lay out appears to be wonderful but I recommend trying to use it before you buy (I didn't) for my 6'3" frame the chart table is unusable as is the dinette.
The rigging terminals on the shrouds do not lead fairly and cause a slight kink in the wire particularly on the lowers.
She is a good sailing boat has a nice interior for the most part with shoal draft and a relatively short rig. She was the best boat I could find to meet my needs at the time 44' bridge and a shallow river. The wing keel seems to work well and certainly lowers the center of gravity while also increasing the load on those keel bolts. Going aground in mud with a big wing like the 322 could be a challenge there is a lot of surface area to get loose.
I wouldn't walk away because of the mechanical issues just be aware they may need to be corrected including dropping the keel. I would walk away over the interior issues if you are my height.

 

[Tally Ho]

I just sold my 322. I owned her for 5 years and never had an issue with the keel to hull joint, that said I would not have felt comfortable taking her offshore other than for day sails, partially because of the knowledge that those (buried) keel bolts are 304 stainless like the rest of the fasteners and rails on the boat. My boat had such severe crevice corrosion particularly on all 4 bow rail feet and fasteners that I kept the bow rail feet to show my customers what crevice corrosion looks like and how quickly 1/8" stainless can be rendered useless. I developed a healthy mistrust of late eighties 304 stainless and Odays of that vintage. Oday was owned by Lear in that time period. The lay out appears to be wonderful but I recommend trying to use it before you buy (I didn't) for my 6'3" frame the chart table is unusable as is the dinette. The rigging terminals on the shrouds do not lead fairly and cause a slight kink in the wire particularly on the lowers. She is a good sailing boat has a nice interior for the most part with shoal draft and a relatively short rig. She was the best boat I could find to meet my needs at the time 44' bridge and a shallow river. The wing keel seems to work well and certainly lowers the center of gravity while also increasing the load on those keel bolts. Going aground in mud with a big wing like the 322 could be a challenge there is a lot of surface area to get loose. I wouldn't walk away because of the mechanical issues just be aware they may need to be corrected including dropping the keel. I would walk away over the interior issues if you are my height.

I am on Lake Michigan (fresh water), so maybe that makes a big difference. I agree about the chart table being very tight (my knees would barely fit under the table. I am going to look at her this week.

The owner told me he retorqued the keel bolts, but he said he torqued them to 200 ft pounds, which I think is too much. I am not sure if over-torquing can crush the keel stub glass or not. The boat is in the water, so we won't be able to see much of the keel joint.

Thanks for the comments.

Greg

 

[Tally Ho]

Greg, I've owned my 322 since '04, and other than paying attention to the keel bolts, I've not had any issue with the keel itself. A reliable surveyor is well worth the bucks. If the boat passes, I think you'll be very happy with a 322. Pete s/v EmmieLou (O-322) Staten Island, NY

Thanks Cap'n Pete. She was surveyed a few years ago, and i inspected her about the same time. No issues found in the survey or my inspection, but I recall reading about an O'Day 322 losing her keel and now I am concerned. But I really like the boat. I will be inspecting her again this week, but she is in the water so won't be able to see much of the keel joint. The Owner sent me some photos of her on the hard, and the hull/keels look good in the photos.

Greg

 

[the_alpine]

Are you purchasing the Tangueray?

 

[Tally Ho]

Are you purchasing the Tangueray?

Not if Tanqueray is a boat....but I do like gin!

Is there an O'Day 322 by that name?

Greg

 

[the_alpine]

Indeed there is. One of her owners kept a great blog of their trip through the bahamas.
http://www.sailingthetanqueray.com/p/our-boat.html?m=1

 

[The Tanqueray]

Hello Group,
I sold my Bayfield two weeks ago and later that week, I bought Tanqueray sight unseen. Three days later I picked her up in Palm Beach and crossed over to Freeport.
She has an attractive look with an exceptional feel of spaciousness. All my previous boats were full keel with a wine glass hull design. The 322 (in comparison) is a lighter flat bottom and slams in a seaway but I think will work well in the Bahamas where she has spent the last three winters.

The slamming was exaggerated by over 400 pounds of anchors and chain right at the bow. I have removed it all and will re-do the anchoring system.

If any other 322's visit the Bahamas, you're welcome to drop the hook behind my dock 26.517 078.628

Cheers,
Gary

 

[the_alpine]

Congrats Gary.

Any room for a 302 back there!?

 

[The Tanqueray]

Congrats Gary.

Any room for a 302 back there!?

Always room you..
Even have mooring ball you can use.
Bayfield owners have a great Yahoo Group. What is the best O'Day Group?

Cheers,
Gary

 

[Capn Pete]

Torque

I am on Lake Michigan (fresh water), so maybe that makes a big difference. I agree about the chart table being very tight (my knees would barely fit under the table. I am going to look at her this week.

The owner told me he retorqued the keel bolts, but he said he torqued them to 200 ft pounds, which I think is too much. I am not sure if over-torquing can crush the keel stub glass or not. The boat is in the water, so we won't be able to see much of the keel joint.

Thanks for the comments.

Greg

I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but I do recall that there are two torque settings for the 322 (for the two different size keel bolts). The larger bolts get torqued to (are you sitting down?) 280 ft-lbs. Not only is 200 not too much, it's not even enough! The smaller bolt gets tightened to 160, I believe, although I'd have to confirm this. And, as I recall, the job requires an appropriate strength torque wrench, deep sockets, an extension for the socket, and a length of pipe to use on the wrench handle for added leverage. Good luck.

Pete
s/v EmmieLou (O-322)
Staten Island, NY

 

[Tally Ho]

I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but I do recall that there are two torque settings for the 322 (for the two different size keel bolts). The larger bolts get torqued to (are you sitting down?) 280 ft-lbs. Not only is 200 not too much, it's not even enough! The smaller bolt gets tightened to 160, I believe, although I'd have to confirm this. And, as I recall, the job requires an appropriate strength torque wrench, deep sockets, an extension for the socket, and a length of pipe to use on the wrench handle for added leverage. Good luck. Pete s/v EmmieLou (O-322) Staten Island, NY

Those match the numbers I have seen for the specs. Going to have to eat my Wheaties that day!

Greg

 

[Tally Ho]

I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but I do recall that there are two torque settings for the 322 (for the two different size keel bolts). The larger bolts get torqued to (are you sitting down?) 280 ft-lbs. Not only is 200 not too much, it's not even enough! The smaller bolt gets tightened to 160, I believe, although I'd have to confirm this. And, as I recall, the job requires an appropriate strength torque wrench, deep sockets, an extension for the socket, and a length of pipe to use on the wrench handle for added leverage. Good luck. Pete s/v EmmieLou (O-322) Staten Island, NY

Forgot to mention that we are having the boat hauled so,the surveyor can get a good look at the joint....better safe than sorry I guess.

Greg

 

[charthouse]

Hello out there. I'm new to this site... have there been any more lost or nearly lost keel instances with the O'Day 322 ? I am contemplating one that has been out of the water for some time. 2'nd question,,, are the decks constructed using balsa core "sandwich" or some other core sandwich... same with the transom..

 

[Sanfelice]

Keel issues

I saw in person the boat that dropped its keel. IMO I wouldn't consider that series of boats. It was not an issue of the bolts coming loose but rather the surrounding fiber glass, about a 1/4in. thick that broke clean off. . Another local 302 was on a launching trailer with the keel not being supported. One was able to wiggle the keel side to side with minimal pressure. It is not so much an issue of keel bolts failing but rather the design of the sump but lack there of.

I need to add that this issue was not true of all Odays since they went trough various ownerships. It was an issue of the years with grey hulls.

 

[Tally Ho]

Hello out there. I'm new to this site... have there been any more lost or nearly lost keel instances with the O'Day 322 ? I am contemplating one that has been out of the water for some time. 2'nd question,,, are the decks constructed using balsa core "sandwich" or some other core sandwich... same with the transom..

Hi Charthouse,

Welcome aboard. I have a 1988 O322, which I purchased last year.

I replaced a rope clutch this spring, and took a video which shows some of the underside of the cabin top. I would,d have said it was solid glass, at least under the winches and rope clutches, but after watching this video, it looks like it is cored (you can see where it thins out around the hatch opening. Check the video under "Rope Clutch".

http://wcwebs.net/oday322/Projects.htm

I like the O322 so far. I added a Mack Pack this spring, replaced the strut bearing and one of the rope clutches that was messed up. No major issues. I have been watching the keel joint and monitoring for,water in the bilge.....so,far, so good.

I also have some sailing videos on YouTube....here is the latest...a nice 26NM solo sail...made 8 knots a few times....http://youtu.be/oIAqoFGh30c

Good luck with the decision.

If I can tell you anything more about my (limited) knowledge of the O322, let me know.

Greg

 

[The Tanqueray]

First winter with my 322

Hey Greg,
Thanks for the videos.
I've now owned Tanqueray for 10-months. In my keel research I've come to the conclusion that the problem of the thin (1/4in) keel sump layup is in the boats that were built after the Leveraged Buyout. I don't know at what hull number that took place.
My hull number is in the 30's and my keel sump layup is 3/4in (I drilled it).

We had a very warm and windy winter in the Bahamas so she has seen some very sprightly conditions. I guess the real question after a winter ownership season is "would I buy her again"? The answer is "in a heartbeat". When I bought her last year I wasn't expecting much other than lots of living space in 32ft. What I got was one GREAT boat (for the price) and built to a much higher standard than I expected.

Cheers,
Gary
Freeport, Bahamas

 

[Tally Ho]

I have enjoyed your research and notes on the O322. I added a Mack Pack on my this spring and really enjoy it. I single hand a lot and find the Mack Pack and lazy jacks make the sail a lot more manageable.

I will have to check my hull number and compare it to yours, just out of curiosity.

Greg