Just bought a Catalina 270 and have some questions

Dec 7, 2015
8
Catalina 270 Bradenton, FL
Hi everyone!

I have recently acquired a 1993 Catalina 270 (hull #0001!) and this forum seems like a great resource. This is my first boat, and while I have a decent working knowledge of how to sail it, I have next to no experience with things like Diesel engines, electrical systems and the like.

I am also new to the world of online forums, so I read through the forum rules and will hopefully avoid any faux pas.

I have a whole list of projects, but for the sake of keeping the threads organized, it seems like creating one thread for each is the preferred method. So I'll start with the one that I am losing the most sleep over: the bilge is a real mess.

Not only is there oil in it (separate thread on that topic forthcoming), but it seems the PO (previous owner?) removed the original bilge pump and replaced it with the one in the picture. I'm not too happy with the wiring job, as I'm told those wire nuts have no place on a boat, especially in the bilge. The original factory configuration was a hose led to a remote pump under the galley sink, presumably because the hose could more easily access the bottom of what is a very narrow space down there.

I looked at reconfiguring to the original remote pump setup, but honestly, the space under the galley sink intimidates me a little. There is an unplumbed water heater and a bird's nest of other hoses in there. I can either look inside, or put my arm in there, but not both at the same time. Such is life on a 27 foot sailboat I guess.

So the questions are:

1. Any general advice for a first timer on accessing and working in those ridiculously small and hidden spaces on these boats?

2. Does anyone have experience with a using a configuration in a 270 like the one pictured, and does it do a decent job of keeping the bilge serviceable? Or should I screw up my courage and deal with reinstalling a remote pump under the galley sink?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

P.S. I'm sorry if the pic are sideways. I exported them right side up but they don't seem to want to upload that way. :/
 

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Feb 26, 2004
22,759
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Welcome and congratulations on your new boat.

In addition to this fine website, you may be aware that each Catalina has an active owners association, who generally, like this gang here, help you avoid reinventing the wheel. In your case it's most likely www.catalina27.org, who do both the 27 and 270 models. Sorry, the link doesn't work because it drops the org, just cut & paste into your browser.

I don't know what engine your boat has, please let us know and we can help in that, too.

Elektrsity? Zap! Try this for starters:

Electrical Systems 101 http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5977.0.html

For boat systems, you'll soon learn about a gentleman called Maine Sail who has a fabulous website:

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/boat_projects
 
Jun 9, 2004
615
Catalina 385 Marquette. Mi
Interesting. My '97 270's bilge pump was located in the aft cabin port side, and the water heater above that in the cockpit port locker.
Not sure why the PO relocated the bilge pump. Im surprised that he found room for it in the bilge. I would try to go back to the original configuration. Although the 270 has a near non existant bilge, I always thought that boat was pretty roomy for a 27.
 
Jan 4, 2013
269
Catalina 270 Rochester, NY
Welcome aboard the best 27 ft boat made, in my opinion.:dancing:
The group you need to join is https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Catalina270/info.
Actually, your boat is already part of the group courtesy of the person you bought it from.
My bilge pump is located in the aft cabin on the port side. I don't remember the exact spot but I installed a new diaphragm in the pump and it wasn't hard.
 
May 24, 2004
7,129
CC 30 South Florida
The bilge pump is no reason to loose sleep over. Pardon me for squashing a myth this early. The bilge pump is more a convenience item than a safety item. Its function is to expel any incidental water that collects in the bilge so that you will not have to get on your knees and scoop it up manually. For safety conduct periodic checks of all thru-hulls, valves, hoses and clamps. Hoses should be firm and double clamped below the waterline. I notice your pump is installed sideway apparently due to the only way the PO could get it in to that small bilge. This would seems to cause the pump to loose prime earlier than if the impeller was parallel to the hull. I'm also concerned about the float switch perhaps not having much room to operate. To test take a hose and slowly start filling up the bilge with water. Go ahead and see that as the float lever rises at what point does it activate the pump. Is the pump at this level completely submerged and pumping water or just partially submerged and spinning freely? Bilge pump/float switch should be hardwired to the batteries ( so they will do their job when the boat is unattended) but in some boats they are wired to a panel switch/breaker with no float switch. If it were my boat I would consider removing that float switch and pump and replacing it with a Rule 500GPH electronic pump. These are controlled by a microprocessor and will start themselves every two minutes and run for a few seconds; if the impeller detects water resistance the pump will continue to operate until most of the water is expelled and if it does not detect any then it will shut itself down for another two minutes. This pump can likely be installed right side up and it will have the ability of removing more water than one operated by float switch which usually have excessive play. The problem with a smallish and shallow bilge is that when the boat is heeling the water will spill into the cabin sole. This pump will likely cure that. Regarding the nut connectors you can use them on a temporary basis until you figure out your ideal setup. It seems the original setup does not allow for an automatic switch which is fine but you have to be aboard to operate it. Perhaps the PO was seeking the convenience of having an automatic system but I cannot tell by the installation if he was successful or not. If you are going to loose sleep do not do it over the bilge pump but do it over the condition of the thru -hull, valves, hoses and clamps. Frequent inspections in a smaller boat are even more important than in larger ones as remember a smaller boat will fill up faster and sink quicker than a larger one given a similar intrusion. I inspect my hoses and clamps frequently, leave most of the thru-hull open )except the one for the head intake) and I sleep like a baby mostly because of insurance coverage. Hardly do ever give the bilge pump a thought except when I stop hearing the hum.
 
Dec 7, 2015
8
Catalina 270 Bradenton, FL
Wow! First of all, thanks everyone for the info!

Electrical Systems 101 http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5977.0.html

For boat systems, you'll soon learn about a gentleman called Maine Sail who has a fabulous website:

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/boat_projects
Thank you for this! This is enough reading to keep me well occupied for a while. Since buying the boat, I have read through (and was a little disappointed in) the Idiot's Guide to Electrical Repair, so I'm excited about looking through this stuff.

Interesting. My '97 270's bilge pump was located in the aft cabin port side, and the water heater above that in the cockpit port locker.
In mine, the tank for the LPG stove is in the cockpit port locker, and it is about the same size and shape as the water heater. I have hull #1, so I guess Catalina was still working some things out in those early production runs. Putting the bilge pump in the aft cabin would probably be much easier than under the sink, as access there is better. I think that's what I might try. Thanks!!

Thanks! Another user from that group private messaged me and turned me on to it. I joined today!
I'm also concerned about the float switch perhaps not having much room to operate. To test take a hose and slowly start filling up the bilge with water. Go ahead and see that as the float lever rises at what point does it activate the pump. Is the pump at this level completely submerged and pumping water or just partially submerged and spinning freely?
I'm going sailing tomorrow, so I will test this and see what happens. In playing with it, I've discovered the main problem with the float switch seems to be that it gets pressed on by the hoses and wires, but instead of keeping it from floating and activating the pump, it pushes the hinged end down and the float end rests on top of one of the keel bolts and the pump stays on.
If you are going to loose sleep do not do it over the bilge pump but do it over the condition of the thru -hull, valves, hoses and clamps.
Seems like good advice! The seacock that drains the sink and icebox is missing the handle to open and close it and something in there is leaking a little. Fixing that is also on my high priority list.

Again, thank you so much for taking the time to read and respond! I'll keep you posted on progress.
 
Dec 7, 2015
8
Catalina 270 Bradenton, FL
Just an update - I performed the experiment suggested by Benny17441 and I found that the float switch activated the pump just as the water gets a little higher than the white part of the pump's casing. To my surprise, the system actually works alright. I still think I will replace it with a diaphragm pump under the aft cabin, but this setup should get me through until I have time to read up on some of the links provided by Stu. Once I'm confident I can run the wiring without hurting myself or starting a fire, I'll go for it and post the results. :pray:
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,708
- - LIttle Rock
You'll obviously need to clean the bilge(s)....wet dirty bilges are "primordial soups" that make a whole boat smell like a swamp or even a sewer. I hear from people all the time who've replaced their entire sanitation system trying to get rid of what they think is "head" odor, when all they really needed to do was clean the bilges!

Most people’s approach to bilge cleaning consists only of throwing some bilge cleaner/and or bleach into that soup when it starts to stink and calling it done. I’ve never understood why they think that’s all there is to it. They wouldn’t just add some detergent and bleach to a bathtub full of dirty bath water, swish it around a bit, then just pull the plug and expect the bathtub to be clean. Or just pour some more dishwashing detergent into a sinkful of dirty greasy dishwater, swish it around a bit, then pull the plug and expect to have clean sink. So why do so many boat owners think they can have a clean bilge without any effort and especially without rinsing ALL the dirty water out of it? So if you really want to get rid of odor inside your boat, roll up your sleeves and get to work!

You can't get rid of any odor unless you first eliminate the source of that odor. So before starting any cleaning you need to find and fix any oil leaks, replace any permeated hoses and remove any other sources of odor.
Start by putting down bilge pads or pillows to remove any oil (which you've already said is there). Bilge pads and “pillows” no longer can separate oil from water and collect the oil once detergent or degreasers are mixed with oil. So before using any degreaser, detergent or other cleaning product, put them down to sop up all the oil and/or diesel possible. Replace pads/pillows as necessary and dispose of them in approved sites.

Once the oil is gone, scrub the bilges using a strong solution of detergent and water...NO BLEACH! In my experience, a power washer is the best way to clean a bilge, because it gets into places you can't reach.
The most important step: Flush all the dirty water out! A wet dirty bilge IS a primordial soup! You won’t get it clean by just dumping something into it, then letting the bilge pump dispose of the dirty water, even if you have scrubbed it...any more than you'd end up with a clean kitchen sink if did nothing more than pour some Dawn into greasy dirty dishwater, scrubbed the sink, and then just pulled the plug.
Finally, use a shop vac, or dinghy bailer, bucket and sponge to mop up the remaining water, then leave hatches open so it can completely dry out for 12-24 hours. Turning fans on if possible helps to accomplish that.
NOW you finally have a clean bilge! Cleaning it as part of your spring recommissioning will keep it that way.

About bilges cleaners:
Whether a bilge cleaner is environmentally friendly, or even"biodegradable" (a meaningless feel-good term intended to mislead you in believing it means the same thing as “environmentally friendly’…it doesn’t!) is immaterial because no cleaning product can magically turn the grease, oil and diesel in a bilge into an environmentally friendly mixture. Detergents and degreasers only emulsify petroleum products so that they sink instead of putting an oily sheen on the water when your bilge pumps dump it overboard. And it’s never ceased to amaze me that the same people who have spasms at the idea of pumping a little truly biodegradable toilet waste overboard think nothing of just dumping a "biodgradable" bilge cleaner into a bilge full of oily water and letting the bilge pumps send it overboard.
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,708
- - LIttle Rock
Interesting article. ...and this confirms what I've been saying for years: "bio-degradable" is a meaningless feel-good term used to mislead consumers into believing it means the same thing as "environmentally friendly." Believe it or not, formaldehyde is classified "bio-degradable."
Unfortunately for consumers, there’s no regulation for the use of claims such as“nontoxic” and “biodegradable” that are found on many labels. According to the Consumer Reportsweb site, www.greenerchoices.org, the labels nontoxic and bio-degradable are not verified and have no
publicly available standards.


I found it interesting that they only included boat and automotive HULL cleaners in their tests...no general purpose or "household" detergent cleaners....nor any bilge cleaners.
 
Jan 22, 2008
8
Hunter 31_83-87 ASC GA
I have a 1995 270 with pretty much the same set up, The bilge stays dry ! I have tested a few times manually and seems to function if needed.
 
Dec 7, 2015
8
Catalina 270 Bradenton, FL
Peggie - Thanks for your advice. I cleaned the bilge following your instructions and it looks and smells much better! I'm always on the lookout for more environmentally friendly ways to clean and you truly can't trust the advertising!

Jeff - That's good to know. I have also been pretty impressed with how well the setup works. For now, I'm just going to replace the twist on connectors until I get up the nerve and time to install the diaphragm pump.

Thank you again to everyone who responded!
 
Sep 15, 2013
707
Catalina 270 Baltimore
Hello Kevin. Congratulations on your "new" 270! It is a great boat. I have hull #270 built in 1997. I bought mine in 2013. The best thing I ever did for my boat was to register on this forum. The folks here are awesome and their advice is invaluable. I also recommend the Catalina 270 Yahoo Group. Many of the posters here are in that group as well. As far as the bilge goes it should be dry. The only thing that should be wetting your bilge is a drip from your prop shaft while it is spinning. Catalina did change the design on the bilge pump type and location. Mine is a diaphragm pump located inside the port lower compartment in the aft cabin. There are manuals available online as well. Again, Welcome!
 
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druid

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Apr 22, 2009
837
Ontario 32 Pender Harbour
Welcome to Small Boat Repair! I called the space behind the engine and under the cockpit in my Crown 28 the "hobbit-hole" - I once had to extracate myself in a hurry because I was suffering from compression asphyxia (chest was compressed so I couldn't breathe). Sometimes it's best to bite the bullet and cut an access hole. If you keep that bilge-pump setup (and it sounds OK - if it works don't fix it!) you should at least replace those wire nuts before the surveyor sees them (they MIGHT invalidate your insurance - ask me for details if you want LONG STORY and hate Insurance Companies).

And as for "bio-degradable": I had to laugh at McDonald's defending their styrofoam burger boxes - they called them "non-biodegradable, therefore non-toxic". I guess they're right, technically... :)

druid
 
Aug 1, 2011
3,972
Catalina 270 255 Wabamun. Welcome to the marina
Good thing the aft cabin on the 270 is just about full size. Not too many pocket cruisers have the space this boat does, and had it 10 years before virtually anybody else.
 
May 22, 2017
1
Catalina 270 Lake Minnetonka
I just got one too!

Here’s the Hull number CTU8030JE101 (2001?); but the number on the Sail is 301 – anyone know how they connect? Is it a 2001, the hundred & 1st built, or 803rd?


Does anybody have a clever way of adding coolant?


Here she is in her slip:


Jim B.
 

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T_Cat

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Aug 8, 2014
333
Catalina 22 1987 New Design. 14133 "LadyHawke" Modesto CA
I have 5ft envy now! lol
Congratz on our new boat.
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Good thing the aft cabin on the 270 is just about full size. Not too many pocket cruisers have the space this boat does, and had it 10 years before virtually anybody else.
The 270 is a decent boat for sure. But a foot shorter and 2 years earlier, the First 265. The french introduce this wide transom, aft berth layout in the 80s. It took most builders decades to catch on.

first_265_drawing.jpg