Jib sheet(s) attach to clew. Two lines or one?

AaronD · Feb 15, 2017

justsomeguy said:
Not really much to them. If you can finger-trap a loop in the ends of sufficient cordage, you can make your own.
http://www.chutingstar.com/pd-main-canopy-slinks
HTH.

There are several methods of making soft shackles - one comparison is at http://www.balancecommunity.com/slack-science/comparison-soft-shackle-methods.

I made a few with the standard diamond knot, and then moved to Evans Starzinger's 'Improved Soft Shackle' (Method 4 at the link above). I like not having to leave tails hanging out of the knot, and I was never 100% confident whether I had a diamond knot tied correctly. I find the eye splices and overhand to be harder to mess up. Evans tested these to about 230% of line strength. I think I recall seeing Evans or Allen say somewhere that the 'amateur' shackles they'd tested came in at around 150% of line strength.

I probably have a couple dozen of these hanging around my boat, used for everything from rigging to hanging BBQ tools off the rail... Mostly from 7/64" Amsteel, since a working load of ~500 lbs is plenty for most things on my little boat (1600 lbs breaking strength * 150% / 5 = 480 lbs, which should be a pretty conservative estimate). Another good use for that 40% off line sale at WM - at that price, you can make one for less than $1.

markwbird · Feb 15, 2017

Three

freeheelbillie · Feb 15, 2017

I have been toying with splicing a soft shackle on the end of the sheet itself.

justsomeguy · Feb 15, 2017

freeheelbillie said:
I have been toying with splicing a soft shackle on the end of the sheet itself.

An excellent use of mid-Winter in Michigan!

Parsons · Feb 15, 2017

You guys have convinced me to go with a single sheet on my roller-furled Genoa to avoid the occasional hang-up on sheeting in quickly on tacks. I'm searching for a good mid-line loop to make my new sheet when I replace them next season. I don't like the suggestion of using a cow hitch (some referred to it as a "luggage tag") as I have seen them impossible to open after stressing when wet. I am partial to the Alpine Butterfly, but do not know how to tie it with the clew in the loop. Suggestions? http://www.animatedknots.com/alpine...png&Website=www.animatedknots.com#ScrollPoint

freeheelbillie · Feb 15, 2017

Parsons said:
You guys have convinced me to go with a single sheet on my roller-furled Genoa to avoid the occasional hang-up on sheeting in quickly on tacks. I'm searching for a good mid-line loop to make my new sheet when I replace them next season. I don't like the suggestion of using a cow hitch (some referred to it as a "luggage tag") as I have seen them impossible to open after stressing when wet. I am partial to the Alpine Butterfly, but do not know how to tie it with the clew in the loop. Suggestions? http://www.animatedknots.com/alpine...png&Website=www.animatedknots.com#ScrollPoint

Why not use the butterfly and attach it to the clue with a soft shackle? That's a solid knot for your intended purpose by the way.

shemandr · Feb 15, 2017

Good video and that's a great result. I'm not sure you could do that on anything but a new sheet. I suppose the line vendors could provide one. Their eye splices aren't that expensive when you consider the mess I would make doing that. One question: The cover protects the core from abrasion and UV damage doesn't it? Would the exposed shackle be subject to those?
We blew a spinnaker halyard last summer and it was the stripped part that failed.

justsomeguy · Feb 15, 2017

Nice how those hands just whipped out that 'lil monkey's fist.

Parsons · Feb 15, 2017

So I just emailed with Grog (of knot fame), who suggested this site for tying an Alpine Butterfly with something in the bight ... http://davidmdelaney.com/alpine-butterfly-loop/Alpine-butterfly-loop-m1.html

It looks good to me, but I have not practiced with an actual line yet. In the end, I may take freeheelbillie's advice and just do a soft shackle. Putting a sheet on that you can't quickly remove seems like an invitation to something bad happening (Capt. Murphy taught me all I know).

freeheelbillie · Feb 15, 2017

Good video and that's a great result. I'm not sure you could do that on anything but a new sheet. I suppose the line vendors could provide one. Their eye splices aren't that expensive when you consider the mess I would make doing that. One question: The cover protects the core from abrasion and UV damage doesn't it? Would the exposed shackle be subject to those?
We blew a spinnaker halyard last summer and it was the stripped part that failed.

Parsons said:
So I just emailed with Grog (of knot fame), who suggested this site for tying an Alpine Butterfly with something in the bight ... http://davidmdelaney.com/alpine-butterfly-loop/Alpine-butterfly-loop-m1.html

It looks good to me, but I have not practiced with an actual line yet. In the end, I may take freeheelbillie's advice and just do a soft shackle. Putting a sheet on that you can't quickly remove seems like an invitation to something bad happening (Capt. Murphy taught me all I know).

I have always found dressing a knot like that in the middle of a long line a pain...lots of rope as the running end to move through the knot.

DougM · Feb 15, 2017

A continuous single sheet or a pair seems to be a matter of personal preference.
In my case, with a small jib, I have used bowlines, keeping the tails reasonably short.
I have never had one catch and trip (knock on wood). There is always the possibility of getting more wear from the sheet winches in my case than from anywhere else.
My concern is the sheet catching under the lip of the forward hatch during a tack because somebody didn't latch it.

In the original post, the question was asked about using shackles. That is a definite "never". A flogging sail with shackles on the clew is a good way to get some unplanned dental work or worse.

shemandr · Feb 15, 2017

I once had a block explode on my "Foolproof" in mast furling system. I never found any piece of the block. If it had hit me in the head I think it might have killed me. The noise was like a gunshot. Yeah, soft sounds good to me.

Charlie Jones s/v Tehani · Feb 15, 2017

BlowMeAway said:
Thank you all for the awesome responses. I seriously appreciate your input. After some minimal research and minor considerations, I believe this may be the better solution for my needs, using the soft-shackle approach and one line.

View attachment 132776 View attachment 132777
How does this seem to you all?

Same idea as what I showed, but the method I use is more secure. I used to use this one til a sailing friend in Florida showed me the other

jssailem · Feb 15, 2017

Gunni said:
The cow hitch is not stable if you part one side of your single line sheet.

Very true Gunni. I understand your observation. In this case I am using new line. I inspect regularly. If I see chafe or wear, Then the plan is to divide the line and tie two jib sheets to the clew. For now the new line and cow hitch are working and a simple solution.

I also do not like to leave the jib out in the weather when the boat is not in use. So I remove the sail, dry it and store it below when not on the boat.

I think putting a sail on the boat should be a part of getting ready to sail. Gives you a chance to teach a new hand the way of sailing, or old hands a chance to inspect the equipment you are about to put to use. But then I'm not a jump on the boat, fire up the engine and dash away from the dock. It is our boats and the beauty is we all can choose what and how we want to use them.

Thanks for your comment. It adds to my resource of knowledge and experience.

TomY · Feb 15, 2017

Single line, cow hitch is what I've used with our current boat. I don't change headsails so I only have to un-tie in the fall. I like that the hitch doesn't catch while tacking.

Charlie Jones s/v Tehani · Feb 15, 2017

My jib lives in a jib bag, with the sheets coiled inside. Neither sail, nor sheets are exposed to weather

jssailem · Feb 15, 2017

Charlie Jones s/v Tehani said:
My jib lives in a jib bag

Oh the joy of a hank on sail.