Is the Catalina 309 a nightmare to sail?

[phennessey]

First let me start out with the fact that I am new to boat ownership but not new to sailing. I am a new owner of a 2006 Catalina 309. I sail out of the Boston area and if it's blowing more than 10 knots (which it usually is) this boat is a handful, on its ear and for all my efforts I can't get this boat on it's feet.If it blows 18 to 20 knots it's a real nightmare, scary! I reef the main, shorten the foresail haul in on the outhaul on and on and the boat is just impossible for me to balance.I've had the rig tuned hoping that might help but no improvement. I am getting very frustrated and worried that this is a marina queen and not a boat that likes to sail. I have tried many combinations of sail adjustments and cant seem to find the right one. It also regularly over powers the auto-helm. I just hope it's me and not the boat, hate to think I bought the wrong boat. I realize that the in mast furling main has very limited trim options but c'mon it's a sail boat right? Any sail trim advice will be greatly appreciated.

 

[Stu Jackson]

I think you have the right boat and she sails very well. It's essentially a slightly modified updated Catalina 30, and they made over 6,000 of them! Really. You seem to be doing the right things from your descriptions, except for the comment about the limitations of in mast furling for the main - it should be endless not limited.

Have you considered taking other sailors out with you? (I'd be glad to come, but I'm on the wrong side of the country , and there are so many C30s sailing here on windy San Francisco Bay that I doubt it's the boat.) Do you have Don Guilette's excellent Sail Trim chart and book available right here on this website? Just don't know from your description how much you do know, even with what you said.

Good luck. You have a great boat. Far, far, far from just a marina queen.

 

[Scotty C-M]

Are you using the traveler? I sailed a Catalina 30 for many years and found it very manageable. Hopefully you will also. I have no experience with the 309. I like Stu's suggestion to get someone onboard to give you some assistance.

 

[jsalley]

Something sure doesn't sound right. I've sailed my 309 in up to 30-35 knots apparent without excessive heel, as long as I'm appropriately reefed. I usually start to reef when the apparent wind is 13-15 kn or greater, starting with the jib. Just takes some experimentation to get it right. The boat sails best on its feet (less than 15-20 degrees of heel). As mentioned in the previous post, it's important to use the traveller. These boats can have a lot of weather helm, which can be improved by changing the mast rake (which of course necessitates retuning the rig), but once you find the sweet spot it's a stable, great sailing boat.

 

[phennessey]

I think you have the right boat and she sails very well. It's essentially a slightly modified updated Catalina 30, and they made over 6,000 of them! Really. You seem to be doing the right things from your descriptions, except for the comment about the limitations of in mast furling for the main - it should be endless not limited.

Have you considered taking other sailors out with you? (I'd be glad to come, but I'm on the wrong side of the country , and there are so many C30s sailing here on windy San Francisco Bay that I doubt it's the boat.) Do you have Don Guilette's excellent Sail Trim chart and book available right here on this website? Just don't know from your description how much you do know, even with what you said.

Good luck. You have a great boat. Far, far, far from just a marina queen.

Thanks Stu you're right 6000 boats can't be wrong. I am going to bring on some help to see what I'm missing.

 

[phennessey]

Are you using the traveler? I sailed a Catalina 30 for many years and found it very manageable. Hopefully you will also. I have no experience with the 309. I like Stu's suggestion to get someone onboard to give you some assistance.

Yes Scotty I use the traveler as my first adjustment

 

[phennessey]

Something sure doesn't sound right. I've sailed my 309 in up to 30-35 knots apparent without excessive heel, as long as I'm appropriately reefed. I usually start to reef when the apparent wind is 13-15 kn or greater, starting with the jib. Just takes some experimentation to get it right. The boat sails best on its feet (less than 15-20 degrees of heel). As mentioned in the previous post, it's important to use the traveller. These boats can have a lot of weather helm, which can be improved by changing the mast rake (which of course necessitates retuning the rig), but once you find the sweet spot it's a stable, great sailing boat.

I will look into putting more rake into the mast and I am greatly relieved to hear that you sail your 309 in 30 to 35 knots. I use the traveler right away when the boat starts to exhibit any weather helm. I'm wondering if there's too much weight in the back of the boat. I have a small generator and all my fenders etc in the rear cockpit locker.

 

[weinie]

I take it you are sailing single handed based on the Autohelm mention. If the sails are not trimmed properly, the autohelm will not be strong enough to compensate even with the rudder hard over.

I single hand most of the time and just yesterday I was out in about 10 knots of wind. However, in the late afternoon, it started gusting to almost 20 knots true with my 150 genoa and I found my self just letting the auto sail a straight close hauled course while I sat forward and worked the traveler in and out as the gusts came and went. I was able to sail a very straight course in winds, where if they were blowing steady, I would have reefed my genoa at the least. Had I not eased out the traveler when the gusts picked up, I the boat would have easily rounded up despite the auto's best intentions. Just playing the traveler allowed the auto pilot to do its job properly.

Even when sailing in steady wind conditions at 10 knots, the sails STILL need to be balanced properly or the autopilot won't be able to hold a steady course. If the main is sheeted in too tight, you will have to much weather helm. Too far out and the genoa will pull the boat to leeward. You should practice by locking your wheel and try to just steer just by using the traveler.

Tacking and gybing with the autopilot can also be tricky when you are alone. In fact, with the big gusts yesterday, I found it hard to tack. At one point, I was getting toward the point I needed to tack when a gust hit hard. I had let the traveler out, but I still had to make the tack. Pressing the buttons to tack on the autopilot, I released the genoa sheet and got ready to take in the sheet on the other side. However, with the traveler way out, the boat did not have enough leverage to turn through the wind, despite it having decent speed. I had to turn the auto pilot back to standby, pull the wheel back over the other way, put the genoa back on the old winch and haul it in while holding the wheel with one hand to prevent the boat from going back to far down, get some speed back, pull the traveler to windward, turn the autopilot back to auto and then try the tack again!

Sometimes, the auto tack feature will under tack. Sometimes that is useful, especially if I am drag racing the boat next to me and I want to haul genoa sheet all the way in without having to use the winch handle before the wind grabs the sail. However, If I dont bear off quickly, I will end up just backwinding the genoa and find myself practically hove-to.

 

[Stu Jackson]

I think you're over thinking the weight. The fenders weigh next to nothing, and I'll guess it's a Honda. No different than having three crew on board.

Reef, reef, reef. Reef the main first, 'cuz most people make the mistake of reefing their jib first, 'cuz it's "easier". On your boat it's not, 'cuz you have the furling main.

You should use no more than a 110 equivalent sized jib and a full single reef in your main once it gets over 15 knots apparent. That's what should make you comfortable. Anything more? Reef more.

We sail with an 85% jib and a single reef in the main and have carried that in apparent winds up to 25. We used to race against skippers with 130s with our 110 jib (and single reefs on very windy days) and did quite well.

As mentioned, you need to keep the boat flat. ONLY shortening sail will do that. The traveler is a mainsail control (and can be used in gusts instead of the mainsheet) but is no substitute for a reefed sail plan.

Good luck. The beauty is you get to go out and practice more often, which gets you out on the boat more often. What a deal.

 

[phennessey]

I take it you are sailing single handed based on the Autohelm mention. If the sails are not trimmed properly, the autohelm will not be strong enough to compensate even with the rudder hard over.

I single hand most of the time and just yesterday I was out in about 10 knots of wind. However, in the late afternoon, it started gusting to almost 20 knots true with my 150 genoa and I found my self just letting the auto sail a straight close hauled course while I sat forward and worked the traveler in and out as the gusts came and went. I was able to sail a very straight course in winds, where if they were blowing steady, I would have reefed my genoa at the least. Had I not eased out the traveler when the gusts picked up, I the boat would have easily rounded up despite the auto's best intentions. Just playing the traveler allowed the auto pilot to do its job properly.

Even when sailing in steady wind conditions at 10 knots, the sails STILL need to be balanced properly or the autopilot won't be able to hold a steady course. If the main is sheeted in too tight, you will have to much weather helm. Too far out and the genoa will pull the boat to leeward. You should practice by locking your wheel and try to just steer just by using the traveler.

Tacking and gybing with the autopilot can also be tricky when you are alone. In fact, with the big gusts yesterday, I found it hard to tack. At one point, I was getting toward the point I needed to tack when a gust hit hard. I had let the traveler out, but I still had to make the tack. Pressing the buttons to tack on the autopilot, I released the genoa sheet and got ready to take in the sheet on the other side. However, with the traveler way out, the boat did not have enough leverage to turn through the wind, despite it having decent speed. I had to turn the auto pilot back to standby, pull the wheel back over the other way, put the genoa back on the old winch and haul it in while holding the wheel with one hand to prevent the boat from going back to far down, get some speed back, pull the traveler to windward, turn the autopilot back to auto and then try the tack again!

Sometimes, the auto tack feature will under tack. Sometimes that is useful, especially if I am drag racing the boat next to me and I want to haul genoa sheet all the way in without having to use the winch handle before the wind grabs the sail. However, If I dont bear off quickly, I will end up just backwinding the genoa and find myself practically hove-to.

I do singlehand quite a bit and I really appreciate your input.

 

[JK_Boston_Catalina310]

I sail a Catalina 310 out of Hingham. As others have mentioned, reef.

I don't know what you sailing experience with Boston is but I think that might be your biggest problem. The winds are fairly erratic and shifty in this whole area. For instance, on Saturday we left the dock at 2 pm with some friends. We were seeing winds in the 12-20 kts range. We set the first reef in the main and had about 75% of our 135 genny out. We started sailing down the channel from Grape Island heading for the Hull Gut. On that short tack we saw winds go from 8 to 23 kts. So we had to choose between being over or under sailed. I typically choose under, it's more comfortable and we are generally not in a rush. Once we cleared the Gut, we headed east, past the Brewsters. We were on a run and the wind settled in at around 10 kts. It stayed in the 9-12 kts area with very little gusts while we sailed around about 3-4 miles off shore. When we headed back in, it built up to 20-23 kts again until we got through the Gut heading back to port when it dropped back down to 10 kts. As far as wind direction, we could go from a close reach to a broad reach while following the same compass bearing.

In addition, the sea state in Boston Harbor often is too confused for autopilots. I don't generally use mine from the Courthouse out to Deer Island. On weekends there is so much boat traffic, mostly from larger power boats, the seas are just completely confused. Add to that just the physical setup of the harbor and you have short, steep confused seas while most of the surrounding area is only seeing 1-2 foot rollers with a good period.

As others have pointed out, I think you have a very nice sailing boat. It's not going to point as high as a J30 or be as stable in high winds with full sails as a Cape Dory 30. But it's a good balance between the two.

Fair winds,

Jesse