Is it just my imagination ?

Discussion in 'Mid-Size Boats' started by MaryEllaRose, Jun 8, 2018. Add this thread to a FAQ

  1. MaryEllaRose


    Joined Sep 11, 2013
    197 posts, 29 likes
    Catalina 25
    6106 US Lake Erie Metro Park
    We've just made the switch from a Catalina 22 to a Catalina 25 wing keel, partly due to "Three-Footitis" but also in search for a more stable boat. We're very much the fair weather sailors, keeping to the southern end of the Detroit river and the western end of Lake Erie. We're most comfortable in light winds, not exceeding 8 to 10 knots, waves 1 - 2 feet.
    It seems to me that the Cat 25 rolls and pitches much more in the same wind / wave conditions. I know the Cat 25 has a higher center of gravity since it's a larger deeper boat than the Cat 22 but I assumed it be a more stable ride....
    Is it just my imagination?

    Tom G

  2. Will Gilmore

    Will Gilmore

    Joined Oct 19, 2017
    4,606 posts, 2,560 likes
    O'Day 19
    US Littleton, NH
    Rolling is a function of cross sectional shape - width, dead rise, roundness of chine, height of center of gravity and, in light weight boats, rigging height and weight, giving a longer swinging moment up high.
    Boats built like logs with a keel will roll a lot (think trawlers with heavy high cabins and masts). If they are narrow and fitted with large keels that present a broad profile to resist that roll and lots of weight down low, little or no rolling even on the side of a wave. They are like Weebles. Then there are boats who's hull cross section has inherent stability, wide, flat bottomed, centre of gravity concentrated inboard and low. The most stable cross section without weighted keel is a half circle. It will always find itself floating flat side down. However, it is not a Weeble. Because of its width and shape, there is a lot of buoyant force outboard, like a catamaran, so it will tilt with the wave but it won't roll back and forth like a pendulum until it runs out of energy.
    What you want to know is, what is the shape of the bottom and what is the ratio of center of gravity height to width. Size is not as important.

    - Will (Dragonfly)

  3. Don S/V ILLusion

    Don S/V ILLusion

    Joined Sep 25, 2008
    5,342 posts, 467 likes
    Alden 50
    US Sarasota, Florida
    My opinion is that going from a 22 to a 25 is a difference without a distinction.

  4. Stu Jackson

    Stu Jackson

    Joined Feb 26, 2004
    20,469 posts, 902 likes
    Catalina 34
    224 CA Maple Bay, BC, Canada
    I did that in 1987. You're much higher off the water, just seems to be more rocking. It really isn't.

  5. markwbird


    Joined Nov 26, 2012
    999 posts, 235 likes
    Hunter 34
    US Berkeley
    Probably not your imagination. Higher CG and wing keel would do that.

  6. Jackdaw


    Joined Nov 8, 2010
    10,076 posts, 3,083 likes
    Beneteau First 36.7 & 260
    US Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
    That's the longest non-answer I've ever seen! Will you gotta get on the water.

    I've owned both and the 25 was for same conditions more stable. The wider beam and greater freeboard will make any like angular motion bigger due to straight geometry.

    Last edited: Jun 9, 2018
    dziedzicmj likes this.
  7. Will Gilmore

    Will Gilmore

    Joined Oct 19, 2017
    4,606 posts, 2,560 likes
    O'Day 19
    US Littleton, NH
    Gawd, you're right.

    - Will (Dragonfly)

    Alansails and pateco like this.
  8. LeslieTroyer


    Joined May 20, 2016
    2,582 posts, 1,203 likes
    Catalina 36 MK1
    US Everett, WA
    Come on out I’ve got 19 mostly solo days planed (6-30 to 7-18). Always more fun with 2.

    Will Gilmore likes this.
  9. Will Gilmore

    Will Gilmore

    Joined Oct 19, 2017
    4,606 posts, 2,560 likes
    O'Day 19
    US Littleton, NH
    Les, I promise, some day I will, but, as JD knows, I am swamped with starting a homestead business right now. I am trying to finish up a deck and then grout 500 s.f. of slate tile, build a new stoop, paint 2 bathrooms and install wainscotting, basically get our new rental house ready for our first AirBnB booking and I spent today digging out weeds from my wife's garden terrace and filling it back in with a truck load of mulch. There's more on that list, much more, like build the farmer's market booth, get all the necessary licensing and make more inventory for our first farmer's market/ craft fair endeavor next week. Blah blah...
    SBO is my escape.
    If you have ever worked construction, you'll know what I'm talking about. You're roofing with a small crew or framing or siding, whatever, and one of the guys stops, he holsters his hammer or puts his roofing gun down and straightens up. He sighs and reaches in his pocket and taps out a cigarette while palming his lighter. He lights up, takes a drag and admires the view from the rooftop for a couple of minutes. Then, he's back to work. Nobody objects or raises an eyebrow. It's the darnedest thing. If you stopped like that to unwrap a lollipop or pour yourself a cup of coffee out of your thermos, the forman would be all over you. Cigarettes, at least they use to be, are understood and tolerated.
    Anyhow, I work mostly alone and that is how it is with me, my smart phone and SBO. I'm addicted and I need regular fixes. Only water and sail will detox me. That or make it worse.

    Les, JS, Kermit, TomY, Shadow, rgranger, CrazyDave, DrJudyB, dlochner, JamesG, SFS, and many others, even JD and KG, I know we have our different perspectives, but I consider you my neosenipals. Life is a little sweeter with you all in it.
    Sorry, don't mean to hijack another thread.

    So, back to the real or imagined rolling of a larger boat. It is a worthy point about being higher off the water. Not sure? Sit at the spreaders and feel the roll. Same rate as on the deck, much larger swing.

    - Will (Dragonfly)

  10. MaryEllaRose


    Joined Sep 11, 2013
    197 posts, 29 likes
    Catalina 25
    6106 US Lake Erie Metro Park

  11. Apex


    Joined Jun 19, 2013
    838 posts, 116 likes
    Oday 28
    US Traverse City
    will, u have a lot of irons in the fire. hope your respobses are at least voice to text. i hat typing on a tiny keyboard. back to work. errr correction out to the water.

    as far as 25 goes it does move, but with sails pulling hard she can handle quite a bit.

    Will Gilmore likes this.
  12. mm2347


    Joined Oct 21, 2008
    232 posts, 27 likes
    oday 222
    US niagara
    A good bunch of guys! A well-versed teck. type that seeks efficiency and an artsie talented craftsman that will add to beautify yet both seem to understand the other and show respect! Hopefully, it's contagious.

    Will Gilmore likes this.
  13. Alansails


    Joined Oct 3, 2011
    644 posts, 111 likes
    Anam Cara Catalina 310 Hull #155
    US Lake Erie/Catawba Island
    We had our Catalina 25 (Tall rig/Swing keel) on Lake Erie and because Erie is a shallow lake and in the western basin there is ALOT of shallow boat chop waves. we would be aware of the chop/pitching, but again it did not seem too bad. We bought our 310 with a different bottom design and wing keel and obviously twice the weight, we do not feel that as bad any more but we still do see some of that pitch!

  14. jssailem


    Joined Oct 22, 2014
    9,032 posts, 3,938 likes
    CAL 35 Cruiser
    US Salem, Moored Port Everett WA
    Bigger boat. Greater mass. Needs bigger waves more energy to move it

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