Problem in my Hunter Panelboard. A screw on a breaker loosened, and the resultant high current melted the insulation and connector, and even burned some of the conductor. My repair would like to include soldered connectors rather than pressure squeezed terminals. Is soldering OK???
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Rich Stidger
I always solder
My standard practice is to always crimp and solder all connections. I believe that it is especially important on connections that could be exposed to salt water vapor. The benefit of soldering is that corrosion cannot occur within the terminal. The solder wicks into the terminal and up the wire a short way. This tends to block the "creeping corrosion" that works its way up wires. The solder seals the cut ends of the wire where the copper is exposed, also helping the corrosion issue. I also heat-shrink tubing over the terminal and up the wire about 1/2". This also helps to keep moisture out of the connection. Always use tinned marine grade stranded wire. Tinned for corrosion protection and stranded for flexibility. Rich
My standard practice is to always crimp and solder all connections. I believe that it is especially important on connections that could be exposed to salt water vapor. The benefit of soldering is that corrosion cannot occur within the terminal. The solder wicks into the terminal and up the wire a short way. This tends to block the "creeping corrosion" that works its way up wires. The solder seals the cut ends of the wire where the copper is exposed, also helping the corrosion issue. I also heat-shrink tubing over the terminal and up the wire about 1/2". This also helps to keep moisture out of the connection. Always use tinned marine grade stranded wire. Tinned for corrosion protection and stranded for flexibility. Rich
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Mark Kissel
Why solder?
Jolie, There are two schools of thought regarding soldering versus crimping. Why solder? Contrary to common belief, soldering is not done to provide a good ELECTRICAL connection although that is an excellent side benefit. The primary purpose is to ensure a good MECHANICAL bond. Since most of the charge flow occurs on the surface of a conductor, good contact must be made between the metals. Two wires twisted together make good surface contact but are not resistant to mechanical (and thus electrical) failure if subjected to stress. Now, cap those twisted wires with a wire nut and you have produced a good mechanical connection. For some applications a wire nut may not be appropriate. For those applications solder provides the good mechanical bond between the metals. There are those who believe a solder joint is more susceptible to failure from stress/vibration fatigue since the connection is more rigid. They feel that in applications where the joint is subjected to these forces, it might be better to crimp the connection. I, *personally*, have never seen a proper solder joint fail from stress. The most common failure I see is caused by a poorly made solder connection (ie. cold solder joints). For stress applications, it is vital to first ensure a good mechanical connection between the metals and then enhance that mechanical connection using the right soldering iron and solder. I see nothing wrong with crimped connectors as long as they are proper. Use the right terminal, sized for the application, and a good crimping tool. Never use a pair of pliers to make the crimp. So what's on my boat? Well, a combination of both. I'm pretty much a believer in soldering connections. Those that I can get to easily get soldered. The others are crimped. Mark Kissel Kittiwake/98H240
Jolie, There are two schools of thought regarding soldering versus crimping. Why solder? Contrary to common belief, soldering is not done to provide a good ELECTRICAL connection although that is an excellent side benefit. The primary purpose is to ensure a good MECHANICAL bond. Since most of the charge flow occurs on the surface of a conductor, good contact must be made between the metals. Two wires twisted together make good surface contact but are not resistant to mechanical (and thus electrical) failure if subjected to stress. Now, cap those twisted wires with a wire nut and you have produced a good mechanical connection. For some applications a wire nut may not be appropriate. For those applications solder provides the good mechanical bond between the metals. There are those who believe a solder joint is more susceptible to failure from stress/vibration fatigue since the connection is more rigid. They feel that in applications where the joint is subjected to these forces, it might be better to crimp the connection. I, *personally*, have never seen a proper solder joint fail from stress. The most common failure I see is caused by a poorly made solder connection (ie. cold solder joints). For stress applications, it is vital to first ensure a good mechanical connection between the metals and then enhance that mechanical connection using the right soldering iron and solder. I see nothing wrong with crimped connectors as long as they are proper. Use the right terminal, sized for the application, and a good crimping tool. Never use a pair of pliers to make the crimp. So what's on my boat? Well, a combination of both. I'm pretty much a believer in soldering connections. Those that I can get to easily get soldered. The others are crimped. Mark Kissel Kittiwake/98H240
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Jim Campbell
Response to soldering
Stranded wire is used on vessels to avoid breaking from viberation, when we sloder we creat solid wire. Always consider viberation in the area you wish to solder.
Stranded wire is used on vessels to avoid breaking from viberation, when we sloder we creat solid wire. Always consider viberation in the area you wish to solder.
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Stevec
I second Rich's response...
Anytime I have had to make any electrical connections I go that route...crimp, solder, heatshrink tubing... NEVER had any problems with this technique, have checked years old work and have not seen any problems develop and have not seen the 'green corrosion creep' which causes a significant part of electrical problems we see.
Anytime I have had to make any electrical connections I go that route...crimp, solder, heatshrink tubing... NEVER had any problems with this technique, have checked years old work and have not seen any problems develop and have not seen the 'green corrosion creep' which causes a significant part of electrical problems we see.
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mike i
Terminals & Corrosion
A method I have used for years has not been mentioned yet. I use non-insulated terminals, a good crimp with with a tool designed for non-insulated terminals, silicone on the terminal barrel (espically on the open end), and seal with good heat shrink tubing. I have been using this technique on construction equipment used around the ocean and in adverse conditions for many years with no failures, and no creeping corrosion.
A method I have used for years has not been mentioned yet. I use non-insulated terminals, a good crimp with with a tool designed for non-insulated terminals, silicone on the terminal barrel (espically on the open end), and seal with good heat shrink tubing. I have been using this technique on construction equipment used around the ocean and in adverse conditions for many years with no failures, and no creeping corrosion.
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Mel
No Need to Solder...
The preferred metod is a crimp-on connector (ie... spade type, barrel bayonette for cable splicing etc...)with a liberal spray of silicone and properly sized shrink tubing. Shrink tubing is the key! This stuff is magic! It really neatens up the appearance of the back of a power panel! Some shrink tubing comes in colors. The white is great for marking cable since it is easily written on with a "Sharpie" marker. The problem with solder is difficulty in removing say one component from the ciruit while underway, it is much easier to slip off a connector. Well I have been sailing for 20 some years and this system has worked well ...
The preferred metod is a crimp-on connector (ie... spade type, barrel bayonette for cable splicing etc...)with a liberal spray of silicone and properly sized shrink tubing. Shrink tubing is the key! This stuff is magic! It really neatens up the appearance of the back of a power panel! Some shrink tubing comes in colors. The white is great for marking cable since it is easily written on with a "Sharpie" marker. The problem with solder is difficulty in removing say one component from the ciruit while underway, it is much easier to slip off a connector. Well I have been sailing for 20 some years and this system has worked well ...
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jolie
NASA solders
I used to build test sets for the NAVY and NASA and they solder. Matter of fact crimping was definetly a NO-NO. The proper solder joint is made so the solder stops just after the connection so the stranded wires are not joined or made solid at the flexable part of the wire. So what I do is solder the connection and then screw it on. I NEVER had much success with compression terminals. Even with the best tools.
I used to build test sets for the NAVY and NASA and they solder. Matter of fact crimping was definetly a NO-NO. The proper solder joint is made so the solder stops just after the connection so the stranded wires are not joined or made solid at the flexable part of the wire. So what I do is solder the connection and then screw it on. I NEVER had much success with compression terminals. Even with the best tools.
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David
Soldering AC power cables
I have an AC power cable on my boat that the previous owner cut and spliced with screw type wire nuts. My understanding is that wire nuts are definitely not approved for marine applications. Would soldering be acceptable on AC cables or should I remove the cable and install an entirely new cable?
I have an AC power cable on my boat that the previous owner cut and spliced with screw type wire nuts. My understanding is that wire nuts are definitely not approved for marine applications. Would soldering be acceptable on AC cables or should I remove the cable and install an entirely new cable?
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Stevec
I still say solder for all
connections (including AC wiring). I have heard the case for crimping( vibration) but I can't tell you how many crimped connections I have seen that corroded and fell off with the slightest movement. Like many topics we have seen on this forum, you'll see strong sentiments for both camps. This is probably the toughest part of making any decision.
connections (including AC wiring). I have heard the case for crimping( vibration) but I can't tell you how many crimped connections I have seen that corroded and fell off with the slightest movement. Like many topics we have seen on this forum, you'll see strong sentiments for both camps. This is probably the toughest part of making any decision.
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Enoon
Steve, have you seen this ?
Regarding corrosion, have you seen what you describe, when the crimped on connection was siliconed and shrinkwrapped? I know what was said below about solder wicking up the wire. But melted solder is going to harm the insulation as far as it wicks. And water is likely to wick up the solder, and past it. Seems to me that both soldered and crimped connections are likely to corrode, unless you seal the ends with some sort of goop and shrinkwrap. I'm mostly asking. My experience here is small.
Regarding corrosion, have you seen what you describe, when the crimped on connection was siliconed and shrinkwrapped? I know what was said below about solder wicking up the wire. But melted solder is going to harm the insulation as far as it wicks. And water is likely to wick up the solder, and past it. Seems to me that both soldered and crimped connections are likely to corrode, unless you seal the ends with some sort of goop and shrinkwrap. I'm mostly asking. My experience here is small.
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Stevec
Enoon, I can't say I have because...
I haven't tried crimping, siliconing & shrinkwraping. It may work equally as well but I haven't tried it. I know that if you overheat any solder joint, you will harm the insulation, but I think this is an extreme example. If you go with the crimp, silicone, shrinkwrap, it'll take a while to determine the effectiveness, but I suspect it should work OK . Post your results down the road so we'll all know... OK??
I haven't tried crimping, siliconing & shrinkwraping. It may work equally as well but I haven't tried it. I know that if you overheat any solder joint, you will harm the insulation, but I think this is an extreme example. If you go with the crimp, silicone, shrinkwrap, it'll take a while to determine the effectiveness, but I suspect it should work OK . Post your results down the road so we'll all know... OK??
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David McKie
To solder or not to solder
ABYC states in section E-9.16.k part 8: "Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit. EXCEPTION: Battery lugs with a solder contact length of not less than 1.5 times the diameter of the conductor". You will notice that vessels from the manufacturer follow this recommendation.
ABYC states in section E-9.16.k part 8: "Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit. EXCEPTION: Battery lugs with a solder contact length of not less than 1.5 times the diameter of the conductor". You will notice that vessels from the manufacturer follow this recommendation.
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jolie
Crimp then solder
That ABYC rule is hard to beat, and THANKS so much for making the HOW site such a great and valuable place to get sailing information. Crimp then solder...
That ABYC rule is hard to beat, and THANKS so much for making the HOW site such a great and valuable place to get sailing information. Crimp then solder...
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