Improving pointing ability by sheeting inside shrouds

Alctel

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Dec 13, 2013
264
Hunter 36 Victoria
Now I know Rardi was looking at this a while back but not sure if he ended up doing anything.

On my 36, the genoa is sheeted to snatch blocks on the toe rail. I've a feeling this isn't letting me point that high, especially as I have a 115% and so it sheets to near where the beam is widest!

I was in a race this weekend, and had to beat against a 3 knot current and headwinds, and no matter what I did, I couldn't get going in the right direction. This is with new sails this year

Anyone modified their boat to sheet inside the shrouds? Maybe by install a padeye on the side of the cabin?
 
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Oct 22, 2014
20,995
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
You can give it a try. Why not rig a barber-hauler block and line to redirect the sheet in to or inside shrouds. See if it helps you?
Is your fore-stay or leading edge of your jib sagging? Letting it sag can increase sail power but not angle to wind. Draw it tight and see what that does to your boat angle to the wind. You will also need to observe what this does to your main. You may get a degree or two higher pointing but loose boat speed in the process. Only you and your boat can find that balance.
 
May 17, 2004
2,099
Other Catalina 30 Tucson, AZ
Now I know Rardi was looking at this a while back but not sure if he ended up doing anything.
On my 36, the genoa is sheeted to snatch blocks on the toe rail. I've a feeling this isn't letting me point that high, especially as I have a 115% and so it sheets to near where the beam is widest!
I was in a race this weekend, and had to beat against a 3 knot current and headwinds, and no matter what I did, I couldn't get going in the right direction. This is with new sails this year

Anyone modified their boat to sheet inside the shrouds? Maybe by install a padeye on the side of the cabin?

Try using a "barberhauler set up". It was invented years ago by the Barber brothers who sailed against Dennis Conner in San Diego. Generally, the inside track is used for closehauled work and the outside track is for all other points of sail.
 

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
7,999
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
Before you start experimenting with the "sheeting angle" make sure you understand how to properly trim your headsail by adjusting the fore and aft position of your jib lead block (the snatch block on the toe rail)... Changing this vertical angle to the clew is what affects the sail's twist... or fullness..
Moving the block forward with make the sail fuller, or more powerful, by closing(tensioning) the leech and opening (easing) the foot.... which also means you are removing twist... just like you do when trimming the mainsheet. If you move the block aft... less tension is placed on the leech, and more on the foot... this opens the upper part of the sail (more twist) and essentially "de powers" it.
Once you get your sail's power setting, or twist, dialed in... you can experiment with the sheeting angle by rigging up a barber hauling device..... But I suggest that getting the proper twist first will give you a greater performance change.
 
Jun 21, 2007
2,105
Hunter Cherubini 36_80-82 Sausalito / San Francisco Bay
Alctel:

Kudos to you for entering your Cherubini Hunter in a race.

I did start the project to install T-tracks on the main deck close to the cabin top. But then put it on hold while moving on to other things (mostly non-boat). Also the installation became complicated than originally contemplated because the deck, right next to the cabin top, although non-skid in appearance, is not cored there. Just a single layer of 1/4" fiberglass. I was concerned about too much flexing under the stress of a highly loaded jib sheet in the frequent 25kt winds on San Francisco Bay. = Possible damage to the deck. I thought it important to have the 1/4" thick FRP interior liner participate in the strength of installation. But right underneath my desired T-track location is the part of the liner in which the AC and DC wiring is routed. And a 2.5" gap between the deck FRP and the liner. I have a solution. But with the need for 14 screws/bolts for each T-track, effecting it is time consuming ... and thickened epoxy demanding. Will get back around to it as the summer progresses. But initially I will do just one side and will first install the T-track temporarily to first confirm that pointing is actually improved enough to make the installation permanent and to do the other side. If pointing isn't really improved, I'll consider it a failed project. And fill in the 5/16" holes I drilled in the deck with epoxy and then paint to conceal.

Regarding Don Guillette's excellent suggestions to experiment with barber-hauling. Over the years, I would often barber-haul inward from the normal toe rail sheeting position. But on San Francisco Bay, we generally don't stay on a point of sail for too long. And due to suddenly shifting wind direction and gusting wind speed, the jib sheet needs frequent tending. Often immediately with virtually no notice. I sail solo or mostly with people who can participate only in much calmer conditions. So that effectively is solo sailing for me as well. I realized the delay in first needing to release the barber-hauler prior to easing the sheet was potentially dangerous. So barber-hauling was not a sustainable option.

I did observe that barber-hauling the jib, compared to our toe rail sheeting, did improve my Cherubini Hunter 36 pointing. But really not all that much. Other similar size cruisers with deeper keels and different hull shapes continued to point significantly better upwind than me. And against J-boats, not only would they still arrive at the opposite shore well ahead of me, but also a further half mile upwind!

Afraid that our Cherubini Hunters will never be pointing standouts.

When I do get my inside T-tracks installed, the sheeting will still be run out-board of the shrouds. Our shrouds are positioned pretty far out, about 8" inside the toe rail, compared to more performance oriented boats which can have the shrouds intersect the deck right next to the cabin top. But still I think that T-track sheeting, which will be about two feet inside the toe rail, will allow better overall sail shape on a close-haul. My current inclination with our toe rail sheeting is to over-tension in an attempt to bring the jib clew in-board as much as possible.
 
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Alctel

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Dec 13, 2013
264
Hunter 36 Victoria
Oh, and here's a photo of us inching past the boat next to us (they tried to fly a drifter but we were faster with white sails with the apparent wind)
 
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