I would like to introduce myself

[Sandcut]

As a long time lurker/reader of this forum I would like to introduce myself. I guess I will be called Sandcut. It is where I grew up and the alias I used back in my cowboy/AMM days. My family were not boaters but growing up in south Florida I did spend a lot of time around water. I always wanted a boat. In college I sailed sunfish and hobies. After college life got in the way. At age 60 I began to think about retiring. The worry then became “what am I going to do” as I am not one to just set around. As I have said I always wanted a boat, I have always been handy I decided to build one. I retired a few years later and started building my first boat. Ross Lillistone’s First Mate. He describes it as “a 15 ft. boat for Sail, Oars and Small Outboard”. She is named Naturally. It has taken four year to build her (that life thing kept getting in the way). Shortly after I started her I realized I wanted/needed a bigger boat. I thought about building an 18-20 footer (the largest that would fit in the shop) but realize I don’t have the years left for that. So while working on one boat, I have been casually looking at old boats and reading this forum. I had decided that I wanted a trailer sailer in the 20-24 ft. range. The only real requirement I had was for a pop top. Last year I discovered U.S. Sailing Center - Martin County., I have been sailing there at every opportunity (which is the reasons Naturally is still in the shop) Last week I came home from the Sailing Center by the long road and saw a boat covered with tarps parked in a grove beside the road. I stopped to take look at it. The For Sale sign taped to the hull said it was a 1970 MacGregor Venture – 22, because it was fenced and tarped I could not tell much about it. Sailboatdata.com says 1970 Venture - 22 didn’t have a pop top. A few days later on the way back to the Sailing Center I figured what the heck I stopped by to see if I could get a closer look. No one was around but the way the tarp fit got me curious. I call the owner he said he would be right over. As he took the tarps off I saw that it had a pop top. I ask how long he had owned her, He said over 30 years and that about 10 years ago he had started to rebuild her. He had the inside striped then “pumice stone blasted”. He lost interest and she had been under cover ever since. He said he had all of the other “stuff” over in his barn we could go and look at if I wanted. Over in the barn he had the interior wood (which is only good for patterns), all of the original cushions, the rigging, the original suit of sails and a newer suit from National sail. A bunch of other junk and 7 large black bags of foam blocks. The condition is what I would expect from a 50 year old boat. The insides have been blasted except for way back under the cockpit. There is a lot of debris, paint chips, dust, broken foam, it will clean up nice to paint. On the topsides lots of spider cracks none of which look to be structural. The non-slip is flaking off and the whole thing will need repainting. The worst thing is the mast plate is off and the core under the deck there is rotten. The hull is in good shape. It will need bottom paint. The PO said he had the keel “professionally refit” and it does look good but I see one crack in the epoxy. I can only hope. The rigging and sails seem to be in good shape. The worst part of the deal is the trailer. The frame is in great shape. The bunks and rollers are very bad. So after several days of negotiations and a whole lot more drama than I am use to, I am now the owner of a new/old boat. According to the title it is a 1971 MacGregor Venture 222. My plan is to do a few things to stabilize and prevent any damage. Then tarp her and park her in the back pasture while I finish Naturally. I just need to move her to her trailer, then build the spars and rig her. Then while I sail her I will work on the Mac. As I have told my wife the most urgent thing is get the boat off the trailer and fix the bunks. While the boat is off the trailer bottom paint and check the keel. The core under the mast deck is rotten but I don’t think that is a big deal. If the keel is OK and I know that is a big IF. I would hope a good cleaning and pressure wash. Then put a motor and running light on her and have her ready to day sail this summer. Then fix the inside and paint as I feel the need. As you might imagine I have a lot of questions. Mostly about how things go back together. I figure this post is long enough I will try to post a few pictures tomorrow.

 

[RussC]

Hoe boy. you must be a glutton for punishment. Which do you prefer to do in your retirement.... sail or work on boats?

 

[kloudie1]

Welcome Sandcut. Good to have you aboard! Your woodworking experience should do you well in doing the inside. Good luck with the project! Post some pictures when you get a chance.

 

[Sandcut]

Russ: I have to admit both. I have always enjoyed working with my hands and problem solving, and truthfully I have not sailed that much. I will have Naturally in the water soon and I plan to sail her a lot.
Kloudie1: thanks.
I am still working on this upload picture thing. Just to be sure I understand. Click - upload a file. Browse to the file and select. The photo appears as a thumbnail below. When I select another picture it is inserted along with a thumbnail saying "insert every image as a..." is this just the default to set all the picture I upload as thumbnails or have I messed up and selected all the thousands of photos on my hard drive ?
later
Sandcut

 

[David in Sandusky]

You got the picture right!

Welcome to the forum! Can’t think of a better place for support as you work your project.

 

[Sandcut]

Thanks Ok I will post a couple more of the inside. also one of my almost completed First Mate Naturally .
Later
Sandcut

 

[jjsbiggs]

Looks like you did an awesome job on Naturally. Welcome to the forum. Everyone here is always willing to help. They were great when I bought my 25 years ago.

 

[Will Gilmore]

Welcome to our crack sailing crew Sandcut. I like your style. That First Mate is coming out beautifully. She looks like a perfect boat for your area of South Florida. What rig are you planning to put on her? Lugs are very pretty under sail, but the burmuda is likely for most efficient and easiest to handle. Anyone, like me, who grew up sailing Optimist Prams would learn towards the sprit rig.
Your projects will be fun to follow. Glad to have you aboard.

-Will (Dragonfly)

 

[Scott T-Bird]

The Venture doesn't look nearly as awful as I thought it would after reading your post! The interior looks like it is ready to fit out as you desire. Naturally looks great! Without the photos, my first reaction was similar to @RussC . Now I see that you appear to have an organized shop and your projects aren't that far off from realization! Good luck and keep your eye on the prize! Like @Will Gilmore, I'm curious about the rig for Naturally, and please, post photos of her soon in the water!

 

[Sandcut]

Thanks guys. Building Naturally has taken a lot longer than I planned. Working on her these last few years is the one constant in my life that has helped me maintain my sanity. That being said if the weather cooperates - I know you guys don’t want to hear about the crappy 60 degree weather we have had the last few days - I plan to move her out of the shop and on to the trailer tomorrow. I will then give the shop a much needed clean up. Then start working on the mast and spars. As far as sail go I am not sure what I am going to do. Well before I ever started on the hull I made the balanced lug sail from poly tarp in a work shop with David Gray at the Florida Maritime Museum. I hope to start out with that. As far as a permanent sail. I was helping out at the Sailing Center the other day checking the 420 sails. I think they are just about the same size as the bermuda rig for the first mate. I have seen used 420 sails cheap I might look in to that. If I have a sail made it will be the sprit rig. Probably as close as I will ever get to a gaff rig cutter.

Later

Sandcut

 

[Freedom77]

HI Sandcut: We owned a '71 V-222, "Penny Sue Too", for five years. Lots of great memories. Good boat. Curious. If you have the original sails the hull # should be the same as the sail #. Also, Hull number is drilled into stringer under cockpit seat on the starboard side. Keep us up to date on progress.

 

[My Mistress]

The 60's aren't THAT old..
Enjoy your project!

 

[Sandcut]

Thanks for that information Freedom77. I knew that the hull ID wasn’t on the transom in the pre-73 boats. I checked this afternoon and found out that I have hull 522. I also found that number painted in the fiberglass just above the rub rail on the port side. It is under the crumbling gelcoat and is barely legible. Now that I know the number I can make it out. The old V-222 sails I have are # 640, so I guess they are not the original sails.

My Mistress. The local radio station use come on the air every morning at 6:00 they would played some silly song or comedy skit then the DJ would holler “they can make me get up, but they can’t make me grow up”. That should be my motto. 66 and most of the time thinking like 26. Over my desk in my man cave /shop/ garage are three framed documents. The standing orders for Rogers Rangers. Rat’s famous quote from “Wind in the Willows”. And the poem “Do not go gentle into that good night” by Dylan Thomas. I am having too much fun to go peaceable or soon.

Later

Sandcut

 

[VenturED]

Sandcut,

Thank you for rescuing another Venture. My V21, supposedly a '74, has had keel issues and I have been in the midst of a repair since I retired in 2014! Darn "life" getting in the way!

Speaking of hull numbers, I have checked the stringer and the stern for a number on my V21 with no luck...so I am not sure those built after 73 were IDed consistently...or mine is not really a '74 as the title says!

A couple of observations from your photos. Your keel bolt looks good from inside the cabin...and I wonder if that plate or strap was something added when it was recently repaired? I have been thinking if having something fabricated to fit over the keel well (or hump, from inside) to minimize wear and provide a better surface for the bolt to bear on. Can you snap a couple close-ups of that from each side when you get a chance?

If the cracks you observed were on the keel itself, I would think a repair of the epoxy fairing and redoing the surface coating would do the trick. Other V222 owners can confirm, but those boats all had cast iron keels as I recall reading. Unrepaird cracks that are in the water during sailing could lead to a larger rust issue and a more extensive repair. Did the PO share if he'd sailed her since the repair?

Lastly, that trailer looks like a replacement...Does it tilt to facilitate launching? It appears to be galvanized and likely worth bunk repair and some greasing of the hubs.

Here is a goal for you...get her in the water before June and you could trailer to the Northwest and Puget Sound to join a couple hundred other craft for the Salish 100 (search Facebook or Port Townsend Pocket Yachters for more info).

Welcome aboard!

 

[Sandcut]

VenturED. Sorry for the slow reply. The only thing more important than honey do’s are son do’s that and finally going sailing again for the first time this year. To your questions. It is obvious that the keel trunk was repaired. The port side has a large patch of heavy biaxial glass on it. I was afraid to ask how it happened I probably would not have gotten a straight answer anyway. I do not think she was grounded. As I have said I do not know a lot about sailing, but it would seem to me in a grounding both sides of the trunk would have been damaged. Only the port side is repaired. There is a hole cut and patched in the top center of the trunk. It is repaired with the same heavy biaxial fiberglass. The through hulls for the head are also filled with it. so I figure top hole was cut in the trunk around the same time port side of the trunk was repaired and the through hull filled. I wonder if the keel rusted and swelled in so tight they could not get it out. I have read of guys cutting a hole in the top of the case to drive the keel out. If that did not work the next step would be to cut the side of the case to relive the pressure. I guess I will never know. At any rate the repairs look good and are very solid. I believe a little sanding and some fairing they will be fine. I have a picture of the metal strap for you. I assume the lower bolt is the keel pivot and the upper one is the keel lock bolt. Does anyone know what the small bolt on the upper left side in the photo is? From the way he has it rigged I don’t think he locked the keel down. He used the keel lock bolt as a stop. I am not sure I like this arrangement. Right now I am leaning towards a shear pin. I have heard of using a ½ wood dowel. When I get closer to getting her in the water I will be seeking advice.

As far as the keel itself goes the PO said he had it “professionally refit” 10 years ago and she has not been in the water since. As I have said it looks good to me. The one crack is in the lower forward edge. The iron is rusting and it has swollen. I am hoping that that is all there is and it is an easy fix. The one problem I have discovered since I got her is that the core in the transom around the motor well is rotten and will have to be replaced. It looks like he did not like the location of the original scupper so he drilled a hole in the lower corner and silicone in a piece of ½ inch PVC. Again I don’t think it will be too bad to replace.

I know nothing about the trailer except that it is an Arrow. And that the boat was on the trailer in 1989 when he bought her from. He gave me the survey he had made. The bunks are rotten to the point that they are falling off. The rollers are also cracked and falling off. When I saw how bad they were I told him there was no way I would move the thing down the road. He insisted that it was road worthy. I told him if he would move it to my house at his own risk I would take it. He did and it was OK. She is still in the drive way where he dropped her. I am afraid to move her. I tarped her where she is. I plan to start on her in a month or so. I plan to lift her off the trailer while she is in the driveway. I will repair the trailer, do the keel and the bottom. The trailer frame is heavy galvanized and it does tilt. The tires are in very good shape the springs and axel are good. After the 15 mile trip over here the hubs were not even warm. To tell the truth I think the trailer is worth about what I paid him for her.

My goal at this time is to finish the First Mate. I moved her to the trailer the other day. I spent the last 2 days cleaning up the shop. All I have to do for her now is build the mast and spars and rig her. Then I will sail her while I rebuild the Mac. I hope to have the Mac repaired enough to day sail by the fall. One of my dreams is to haul her around the country and sail. Who knows I might make the 2020 Salish 100.

Later

Sandcut

 

[VenturED]

Sandcut,

That strap is an interesting affair, being bolted in two places...but if the top is acting as a stop, the keel won't swing all the way down. Another V222 owner may be able to correct me... I use 3/8" dowels that came with the boat when bought used, but I take them out (or put none in) when raising the keel.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/kSGY3jq2t3FTHPzs5

That second upper bolt holds a hard rubber cushion on my V21 (see link above, I hope)...I unscrewed mine without thinking when removing my keel. The piece us about 3.5" square and that notch would fit into the corner aft corner of the trunk.

So, that said, it seems you'd not need two 'stops' to manage the rotation of the keel...
Maybe you could visit and hitch a ride on another boat?! I am hoping to get mine back in the water...but first the snomageddon power outages have to stop (3rd in two days... from snow weighing down trees...). In actuality, I am waiting for warmer weather...

Keep us updated on your progress.

 

[VenturED]

P.S. That through-hull fitting you referred to may be for a sink drain. My V21 had no head, just a portapotty. The only other through-hull on my boat is for the keel which cable and cockpit drain.

Cheers!

 

[Freedom77]

Hi sandcut, Started sailing in 1968 when I was 21. Do the math. "It's not the years, it's the mileage." Indiana Jones. Problem with older 22's. Keel was steel with fiberglass over. Water would get into keel through the bolt hole and bust open glass. Got so bad keel wouldn't go down. Had to reglass ours. PITA! Would recommend mid-boom main sheeting with a traveler. Heckofa difference. Points higher. easier to control sail shape. Keep us posted with more pics. Nothing as good as messing about in boats.

 

[Todd Atchison]

Welcome aboard Sandcut - Nice work on Naturally. We recently restored a 1970 V222 and documented most of the process here. Do a search for "And so it begins." I can't tell you how valuable this forum was during (and continues to be) what turned out to be nearly a two year process. If the keel's o.k. that's half the battle. That's what held us up, though in the end the extra time on the hard let me really do the things that needed to be done. Like I said, I have lots of pics and have learned a lot - your in the right place. Fair winds.

 

[Freedom77]

Sandcut & Todd, found pic of Spinnaker. circa 1975. Close reach out of Marina Del Rey moving north. Wind shifted in the afternoon and broad reach south.