I need some feedback on the Precision 18

[RussC]

I'm afraid I may have to sell my beloved Victoria 18 soon, as my wife just doesn't feel comfortable in it. the Vic is only 5.5' wide, so it is initially tender. With the 550b keel it firms up solid as a rock beyond 15* or so, but she just doesn't feel secure in it regardless.
I've had my eye on a really nice late model Precision 18, but if I spend that kind of money on a boat I'd want her to feel secure on it also. the thing that concerns me is that the keel is listed as only 350lb. heck, even my skinny wife and not so skinny me almost outweigh that The 2' wider beam (than our Vic) surely gives some added initial stability, but can current P18 owners give me an idea of how wife-friendly the P-18 might be in that regard?
BTW: No I don't want to go to a larger boat, as the quick setup time is what I'm after here. we already have an M25 for multi-day sailing adventures .

Thanks much,

 

[DAVA390]

Russ,my first boat was an 18,but I don't t have enough experience ( or usable memory) to answer your question. If you go to the trailor sailers site linked from this forum ( trailor sailers bulletin board?) You will find a very active and helpful Precision forum there,those guys can help.

 

[Brian S]

The P-18 is a somewhat tender boat. Keep in mind that the ballast is in a stub keel, with a centerboard that slots up into the keel. We had a friend with a Com-Pac 23, a much heavier boat. When he'd step on the P-18 at the dock, he would always be taken for a ride, because he was used to stepping on the CP23 and it wouldn't move. I think the P-18 is slightly more tender than my O'day 192, and I have a bit more ballast, and the boat is a bit bigger than the P-18. I like to occasionally "wash the toe rails," but if I'm doing that more than once or twice every 5 minutes or so, that's my hint that it's too puffy, and I should tuck in my reef.

Overall, the P-18 is a great little boat, but it really is not much more than a ballasted dinghy.

Was out in a friend's J/70 in a bit of puffy wind. With it's 600 pound lifting keel, it heels, but then it takes off! That thing is so fast!

 

[Brian S]

Do you let your wife helm the Victoria 18? I've heard many stories of people who are afraid of heeling, that once you give them the tiller and teach them to head up with too much pressure, they realize they are in control, and often start to push the heeling, knowing they can round up. Might get her less skittish, and trust the boat better....

 

[RussC]

The P-18 is a somewhat tender boat. Keep in mind that the ballast is in a stub keel, with a centerboard that slots up into the keel. We had a friend with a Com-Pac 23, a much heavier boat. When he'd step on the P-18 at the dock, he would always be taken for a ride, because he was used to stepping on the CP23 and it wouldn't move. I think the P-18 is slightly more tender than my O'day 192, and I have a bit more ballast, and the boat is a bit bigger than the P-18. I like to occasionally "wash the toe rails," but if I'm doing that more than once or twice every 5 minutes or so, that's my hint that it's too puffy, and I should tuck in my reef.

Overall, the P-18 is a great little boat, but it really is not much more than a ballasted dinghy.

Was out in a friend's J/70 in a bit of puffy wind. With it's 600 pound lifting keel, it heels, but then it takes off! That thing is so fast!

This is the feedback I'm looking for Brian. thanks! Ironically Jennifer has no problem at all with me steadily washing the rails on our bigger M25 or the Vic. it's the initial tenderness on the Vic 18 that bothers her. the little bumps and bounces that quickly toss the boat 8*-10*. once we're healed over 15-20* but steady, everything is fine.
I have let her take the helm on the M25 a couple times (with me holding the sheets), but only when it's fairly steady winds. she loved it under those conditions, but gets flustered when it's a bit punchy. she's been through a lot of heavy medical stuff that's slowed her reactions a great deal, so that's a problem for her also.
Thanks for the input.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

RussC
Hope your wife is feeling better. Suggest that you learn more with the use of sails not heeling ove 12 to 14 degrees even in a Victoria 18 I once owned.
Crazy Dave

 

[RussC]

RussC
Suggest that you learn more with the use of sails not heeling ove 12 to 14 degrees even in a Victoria 18 I once owned.
Crazy Dave

 

[Brian S]

Russ, sorry your wife has those kinds of difficulties. I remember how much I used to love bouncing along in our Boston Whaler 13 with 20hp motor, but my Grandmother couldn't stand it!

I think the bumps and rolls and pitches of small boats are just what we have to deal with. When we get into bigger boats, the extra mass damp out the sharper movements.

One thing I have heard about Precisions in general is that they have a flat-ish bottom, which tends to pound beating to windward in chop. It would be best for you to hitch a ride in one if you can, to see if it's acceptable.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

RussC
Like I said I owned a Precision 18 and was merely suggesting less heel. Had to do that with my wife when we owned it. It was a trade in I took for a new Precision 23. I use to be a Precsion dealer stocking the entire line. Next time I will pass by your messages and that is all.

 

[Brian S]

Hey, Crazy Dave! Do you agree with the assessment that the Precisions tend towards flat bottoms and can pound in chop? Or am I mis-remembering that?

 

[sailorforever]

Dave, research a montgomery 17 one listed here,

Montgomery 17, 2006, HEMET, California, sailboat for sale from Sailing Texas, yacht for sale

 

[RussC]

RussC
Like I said I owned a Precision 18 and was merely suggesting less heel. Had to do that with my wife when we owned it. It was a trade in I took for a new Precision 23. I use to be a Precsion dealer stocking the entire line. Next time I will pass by your messages and that is all.

Actually, Dave, you originally said you owned a Victoria 18, not a Precision 18. The Victoria 18 is basically a canoe hull. 5 1/2' beam and lwl of 12.83'. If it's in the water on a typical lake, there is wind, and the sails are allowing the boat to move... it's at least momentarily, and repeatedly, healed over "past 12 to 14 degrees". When it's possible to reduce that.... ya... I know the procedure........ In my earlier post I tried to explain that it's not the total (steady) heel that bothers my wife, it's the sudden 8-10 degree bumps that sometimes frequent lake sailing on a small boat. The Vic has a 550b fixed keel in a 1250lb boat. it aint falling over. but the initial tenderness, due to the narrow and round hull, can be an issue for someone with a sensitivity to those things.
Sorry you got your feelings hurt, and if you prefer to pass by my messages that's up to you. I enjoy, and am often amused, by your replies. but if I disagree with one directed at me, I reserve the right to call you on it. oh, and that right is certainly reciprocal BTW
BTW: thank's for concern for my wife. she has had, and has again, cancer. Chemo is a horrible drug. Our life is lived one day at a time, in the best way we can live it. what more can I say...
peace out,
Russ

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Being a major sailboat dealer I owned quite a few boats and at Smith Mt. Lake, I took a trade of a Vic toria which we sailed and then later in North Carolina as a dealer, I took a Precision 18 in trade and we sailed that too. Currently I own a canoe and two kayaks at age 66. A friend of mine, Mavilio ( now deceased) taught me a lot how to sail and his theory thru sail control and less heel has proved his theory to be true with small boats on heeling and he raced competively in the Med.
I am also very much aware of smaller boats being tender. Also, my degree is in history but I do know boats and was very much involved with designs and innovations only if you knew. I had customers who felt uneasy with excessive heel and that included both sexes.

As for those with disabilities, I sold boats that were for lack of words fixed so they could comfortably sail a sailboat and many sought me out. As for cancer, we have lost good friends who fought the fight and others who survived. My wife who is a microbiologist has worked at several hospitals, managed the microbiology labs in North America for one of the top leading pharmaceutical companies in the world and most notably Duke Cancer Research. I have also worked with veterans handling their affairs who too underwent chemo. As for your wife, I pray she is comfortable and chemo will work for her. I know this is a difficult time for you and if there is anything I can do, I wish I could help you.

There are many things that you folks do not know about my family or me but you would surprised. However, that is personal and that included folks from all walks of life. Those experiences will go to the grave with me. However, one I am proud is my father is credited by the Army for the advocation, use and maintenance of helicopters to the U. S. Army Aviation and as a child, Gen. Marshal bounced me on his knee as a child. God was good to me in my dealership serving many and merely giving back to the community to include you. I merely made a suggestion and if you disagree with that suggestion, so be it but we can agree to disagree in a gentleman like manner.

Dave Condon

 

[Brian S]

Hey, what about a Com-Pac SunCat? I had a friend with one once, never got a chance to sail it with him. It was a nice little daysailer, pretty beamy, so it might have a lot of form stability. Not sure if it's ballasted or not, does have a centerboard. My friend felt that it was somewhat under-canvassed, which again implies a bit more stability. It has a big, open cockpit, and a cabin big enough that he and his wife would sleep on board from time to time. I knew a guy on a forum once who made a poly tarp jib for his, which helped with the under-canvassed aspects. With a boom gallows, gaff rig, and hinged tabernacle, people rave about how easy it is to rig for dry sailing.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Represented them too. Good boats

 

[Tom G P-21]

If you are still interested in a Precision 18 you might want to post your question over on the sister forum for Precision. It has an active membership. Link to it below.

http://forum.trailersailor.com/forum.php?id=11#1214132

 

[RussC]

Thanks Tom, but I've decided against the P-18 due to what I consider insufficient fixed ballast. looks like a great little boat otherwise, and was hard for me to pass by, but...........

 

[Epic1969]

I am resurrecting this conversation for those interested in a future Precision 18 purchase.

I have a P18 that I’ve been out with 14x now in winds from 3-24Kts for 2-3 hours a sail and this boat compared to my previous Com-Pac 16 and Potter 19 is my favorite so far! The only major mod I did right off the bat before sailing was add 50# of lead shot (6 Snapple bottles worth under the cabin flooring) now after sailing a bit it might not be necessary but I’ll leave it.

I have a New Rolly-Tasker 110% CDI RF Jib and a NEW Rolly-Tasker double reefed main. If you are sailing with old bagged out sails any boat will be harder to control! Even in a whisper of air she’ll scoot along. At @12kts I put first reef in at @18Kts second reef and roll jib up 50% she’ll make windward no problem unlike the previous mentioned also fine boats which have loads of stability at the expense of performance.

Yes, when sitting at the dock and initially stepping on she will move a bit but sailing (with my added lead shot ballast weight and properly trimmed sails) at 10-12* heel she firms up solid and is on rails stable. I’ve only been in 2-3’ waves but have not noticed any problems pounding up to close reach.

I’ve sailed with 4 adults in Cockpit beam reaching on main alone @15Kts and was impressed with room/stability.

IMO a fantastic boat to learn HOW to sail with forgiveness to the beginner.

* Do yourself a favor and Seal up Starboard side cockpit locker/cockpit drains. Easily done to fix the P18 Achilles heel