I don't have words

Oct 30, 2017
183
Catalina c 27 Lake Pueblo
Funny,
I came from snowboarding (still have my first, a Burton Woody) back when they were not allowed on the slopes. I even worked Ski Patrol in AK on a board.
About 15 years ago I dabbled in Tele. Then 8 years ago made the switch fully... mostly d/t switching to predominately backcountry skiing.
In all of those years I never felt the 'rivalry' was anything more than having fun.

...but then again I have been told by friends that I seem to get away with stuff that nobody else can pull off.
 

TomY

Alden Forum Moderator
Jun 22, 2004
2,759
Alden 38' Challenger yawl Rockport Harbor
Funny,
I came from snowboarding (still have my first, a Burton Woody) back when they were not allowed on the slopes. I even worked Ski Patrol in AK on a board.
About 15 years ago I dabbled in Tele. Then 8 years ago made the switch fully... mostly d/t switching to predominately backcountry skiing.
In all of those years I never felt the 'rivalry' was anything more than having fun.

...but then again I have been told by friends that I seem to get away with stuff that nobody else can pull off.
In our family (I suspect most other skier/rider families), the rivalry is all good fun. If anyone makes a judgement call on people based on what's strapped on their feet,...you can't help those people. :)

MJ TT gondola.jpg
 
Oct 30, 2017
183
Catalina c 27 Lake Pueblo
what do you call a snowboarder that just broke up with their girlfriend?


....homeless.


What's the difference between a snowboard and a vacuum cleaner?

.... how you attach the dirtbag.


It's ok I have a friend that is a snowboarder, I'm allowed to tell these jokes. ;)
 
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Oct 26, 2008
6,079
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Funny,
I came from snowboarding (still have my first, a Burton Woody) back when they were not allowed on the slopes. I even worked Ski Patrol in AK on a board.
About 15 years ago I dabbled in Tele. Then 8 years ago made the switch fully... mostly d/t switching to predominately backcountry skiing.
In all of those years I never felt the 'rivalry' was anything more than having fun.
Well, mostly the 'rivalry' is good natured, but there are exceptions. I go pretty far back. Jake Burton actually was inspired by Snurfers. My brother had a Snurfer when we were kids long before I skied. It was just a flat 3' wooden board with an upturned tip and a rope attached to the tip to hold on to. In Illinois, we didn't have hills so we went sledding down the embankment at a highway overpass, which is pretty steep, but short. My brother got pretty good on his Snurfer ... I couldn't stand on it for more than 10' :(.
When I was a senior in HS in 1973, I went to Stowe to ski with my new BIL. He was on ski school staff so it felt pretty cool to hang out with locals. I have a vague memory of going out one night to see a film that a local guy put together about shredding thru tight trees on a board that was a lot like that Snurfer. I'm pretty sure it was Jake Burton. I'd guess that his film was shot in the trees because he wasn't riding the lift with his board at that time.
I think that most of the appeal of snowboarding is that it is similar to surfing and it was very similar to the surfing culture at that time simply because it was rebellious. Snowboarding, like surfing, is no longer rebellious. Now, every rich kid who lives in a multi-million $ shore house surfs. Every Range Rover in the shore communities comes standard with a surf board rack. Just about every suburban kid who gets dropped off at the local area by parents that don't participate gets on a snowboard now. Increasingly, though, parents are on snowboards, too. I'd make a bet that snowboarders will start to try skiing as an alternative.

But, I'd also suggest that there are elements of the snowboarding culture that are similar to elements of the surfing culture that most of us would find pretty undesirable. What kind of reception do you think most outsiders are received in a surf line-up at certain LA beaches? It kind of gets that way in NJ where every would-be hood on a stick from Passaic to Bayonne shows up every Saturday in Vernon because it's only about an hour drive. Sure, there are plenty of local kids who are super-cool, like Danny Kass, and into it for the athletics. And they tend to gravitate to the New England areas or the Rockies where winter is better anyway.

It's funny that I had a discussion once with somebody who said they started snowboarding because they think it is easier to learn than skiing. I always felt that it would be the opposite. Years ago, I took my 2 oldest up to Brighton (Utah) for a day during a ski trip and we all put on snowboards. My kids grew up ski racing so at the time (they were 10 & 12 respectively) they were skiing all of the terrain at Snowbird and Alta. My daughter hated it, my son had a blast. At the end of the day, I felt like I had been in a football game. My daughter never had any interest in a snowboard, even though she also surfs quite a bit (and I think it is similar). My son gets on a board maybe 25% of the time now to ride around Solitude and back country in Big Cottonwood Canyon, maybe more (he's in his 30's now).
 
Oct 30, 2017
183
Catalina c 27 Lake Pueblo
At 16, I moved from Daytona Beach to Dayton, OH
I grew up surfing and skating... snowboarding was a very natural progression.

I got the ski patrol position due to riding out of bounds through the trees, every day I had my ticket punched/taken, but by the end of the season I was friends with all of the patrollers and they would just ask me to let them know when my last run was so they didn't have to try and "chase me" through the trees and a small 25' drop.
The next year they advertised that they were looking for help, so I called up and said I was a nurse and could "ski" (ride) pretty well. I was told to come out. When I got there the head patrol asked if I was the guy who could 'ski' pretty well? he also informed me that he knew who I was from the previous season... I asked if I should leave and was told, "hell no! we want you on our side."
For some reason one of my daily duties was sweeping the trees.
 
Jan 1, 2006
7,071
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
I met Jake Burton at Tuckerman's Ravine on Mt Washington in 1977 or 1978. The people I was there with knew him from surfing from the LI beach clubs. They all built their own surfboards. So I'm not surprised that surfing and snowboarding have similar cultures. Burton was there testing different versions of snowboards which he did tell were inspired by the snuffer. Some of his early prototypes he had that day still had a rope to hold onto.
 

TomY

Alden Forum Moderator
Jun 22, 2004
2,759
Alden 38' Challenger yawl Rockport Harbor
Well, mostly the 'rivalry' is good natured, but there are exceptions. I go pretty far back. Jake Burton actually was inspired by Snurfers. My brother had a Snurfer when we were kids long before I skied. It was just a flat 3' wooden board with an upturned tip and a rope attached to the tip to hold on to. In Illinois, we didn't have hills so we went sledding down the embankment at a highway overpass, which is pretty steep, but short. My brother got pretty good on his Snurfer ... I couldn't stand on it for more than 10' :(.
When I was a senior in HS in 1973, I went to Stowe to ski with my new BIL. He was on ski school staff so it felt pretty cool to hang out with locals. I have a vague memory of going out one night to see a film that a local guy put together about shredding thru tight trees on a board that was a lot like that Snurfer. I'm pretty sure it was Jake Burton. I'd guess that his film was shot in the trees because he wasn't riding the lift with his board at that time.
I think that most of the appeal of snowboarding is that it is similar to surfing and it was very similar to the surfing culture at that time simply because it was rebellious. Snowboarding, like surfing, is no longer rebellious. Now, every rich kid who lives in a multi-million $ shore house surfs. Every Range Rover in the shore communities comes standard with a surf board rack. Just about every suburban kid who gets dropped off at the local area by parents that don't participate gets on a snowboard now. Increasingly, though, parents are on snowboards, too. I'd make a bet that snowboarders will start to try skiing as an alternative.

But, I'd also suggest that there are elements of the snowboarding culture that are similar to elements of the surfing culture that most of us would find pretty undesirable. What kind of reception do you think most outsiders are received in a surf line-up at certain LA beaches? It kind of gets that way in NJ where every would-be hood on a stick from Passaic to Bayonne shows up every Saturday in Vernon because it's only about an hour drive. Sure, there are plenty of local kids who are super-cool, like Danny Kass, and into it for the athletics. And they tend to gravitate to the New England areas or the Rockies where winter is better anyway.

It's funny that I had a discussion once with somebody who said they started snowboarding because they think it is easier to learn than skiing. I always felt that it would be the opposite. Years ago, I took my 2 oldest up to Brighton (Utah) for a day during a ski trip and we all put on snowboards. My kids grew up ski racing so at the time (they were 10 & 12 respectively) they were skiing all of the terrain at Snowbird and Alta. My daughter hated it, my son had a blast. At the end of the day, I felt like I had been in a football game. My daughter never had any interest in a snowboard, even though she also surfs quite a bit (and I think it is similar). My son gets on a board maybe 25% of the time now to ride around Solitude and back country in Big Cottonwood Canyon, maybe more (he's in his 30's now).
You kill me Scott! I go back 2 years farther than you. I think I've told you, I was born in NJ and learned to sail on Barnegat Bay, in the 60's. I haven't heard the word 'hood' used, since I left NJ, in 1966. :)

And they weren't any good hills in Westfield, either. But I did go to a ski area a few times in Jersey. Small, night skiing, I recall. Maybe it was Vernon? There couldn't have been many back in the 60's in NJ. I sort of remember, it was mayhem at night. Sort of like Route 22 at 5 pm.

We skied in Vermont thanks to some friends that had a ski house at Killington. Then we moved to Vermont about 2 miles from a small ski area(long out of biz) when I was about 12. In Vermont, hoods were chuckers! :)

I remember the Snurfer but it didn't take off at my area. Going to junior high and high school in Vermont, we all skied. I competed all through high school. Our school was small so the alpine team had to ski jump as well. We were scared shitless and all sucked! It was like watching a team of Eddy the Eagles landing on the outrun. We didn't even wear helmets jumping. In fact, the only time I wore a helmet was in Downhill events. Kids were getting killed in high school downhill.

And you also remind me, I have many friends that have tried snowboarding, and found it extremely painful! I'm willing to bet, you jumped the gun and headed up the lift, before you should have,... :)

I saw the carnage my friends suffered(it's brutal if you rush it), and I took it slow. A private lesson and several trials on the kiddy rope tow. When I headed up the chair for the first time, at 56, I was ready.

I don't worry about my legs snapping, more my arms breaking. And where as ice can be handled on skis, ice on a board(at least for me), I just duck and cover and hope I don't hit anyone.

I think skiing would be far easier for a newb to learn, than boarding; at least for an older person (the kids call us 'Grays on Trays').

I find it totally different than skiing. Not better, I just had my fill of skiing, and needed a new challenge.

We'll probably go back to skis, in our later years(80's).
 

Gunni

.
Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
Burton was there testing different versions of snowboards which he did tell were inspired by the snuffer. Some of his early prototypes he had that day still had a rope to hold onto.
Was up in the old family garage attic last year and found my old Snurfer Pro, it had a dark veneer top skin and gripper foot pins. Racing stripe too.
 
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Oct 26, 2008
6,079
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
And they weren't any good hills in Westfield, either. But I did go to a ski area a few times in Jersey. Small, night skiing, I recall. Maybe it was Vernon? There couldn't have been many back in the 60's in NJ. I sort of remember, it was mayhem at night. Sort of like Route 22 at 5 pm.
I know exactly where you skied!
http://www.gondyline.com/snow-bowl.php
The 60's was before Vernon Valley/Great Gorge and Hidden Valley were built. Snow Bowl in Jefferson Twp was absolutely the hottest skiing scene in the 60's, but it closed around 1973. We moved to Jefferson in 1989 and my kids all went to Jefferson HS, which is at the base of the mountain (shown in one of the photos). My BIL grew up right at the base of the mountain and ski raced at Snow Bowl in his teens. When he came back from college and living in Vt for a few years, the area was closed and all the ski racing had moved up to Hidden Valley, which opened about 1976 or so. I don't have first hand experience but the stories I heard from all my new friends in Jefferson when we moved there were hilarious. They said it was about the most raucous scene that the northern hills of Jersey had ever seen. It was the wild west for sure.
Some folks still hike and ski or ride there when we get enough snow, which isn't often enough. It actually is a pretty decent mountain with about 500' vertical. It would have been perfect for the kids to walk over to the base of the lifts from HS every day. We only had a 25 minute drive up the road to Hidden Valley, so it was convenient enough as it was.

So our home was just a 5 minute drive from the base of the old lodge!
 
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Jan 1, 2006
7,071
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
Was up in the old family garage attic last year and found my old Snurfer Pro, it had a dark veneer top skin and gripper foot pins. Racing stripe too.
Wow those are some fancy Snurfers! Mine was a yellow board with a rope and staples on the standing area for traction. Got thrown off of some nice golf courses with it. By the way, a hundred yards was a good run.
 
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Oct 26, 2008
6,079
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Come to think of it, Tom, you may have gone to Craigmeur

http://www.gondyline.com/craigmeur.php

It was pretty much in the same neighborhood but opened much earlier and was more established. Shorter, gentler runs, though. It was right off Rte 23 going up past Butler, so would have been convenient. Back in those days, not many people knew how to get into Berkshire Valley/Milton. That was really backwoods. Sue grew up in that town, she can tell stories!
 
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Oct 26, 2008
6,079
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Wow those are some fancy Snurfers! Mine was a yellow board with a rope and staples on the standing area for traction. Got thrown off of some nice golf courses with it. By the way, a hundred yards was a good run.
Yes, I'm guessing Gunni had the next generation. I remember it more like yours, except with friction strips (which probably came off - you might have added the staples maybe?)
 
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Oct 30, 2017
183
Catalina c 27 Lake Pueblo
Yes skiing is easier to learn at the beginning. But snowboarding is easier after the initial steep learning curve.

Like so many things in life it doesn’t matter to me what you are on as long as you are having fun doing it.
 

jwing

.
Jun 5, 2014
503
ODay Mariner Guntersville
It's funny that I had a discussion once with somebody who said they started snowboarding because they think it is easier to learn than skiing.
Yeah, snowboarding is way easier, and more fun, to learn. Also more fun to ride on most ski resort terrain.

Then 8 years ago made the switch fully... mostly d/t switching to predominately backcountry skiing.
In all of those years I never felt the 'rivalry' was anything more than having fun.
It never dawned on me that there might be a rivalry based on choice of sport or gear specifics. But maybe that's because I gave up skiing resorts decades ago. Occasionally I'd see some youngsters slogging up with their split boards, and others carrying their snowboards and snowshoeing up. But there is no way that they are going to keep up with a skier in the Wasatch bc. The few that I know who tried switched to skis almost immediately. Nobody ever had to say a word to them, except "We might do a run or two before you get there. Wait for us when you get to the top."
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,079
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
I got the ski patrol position due to riding out of bounds through the trees, every day I had my ticket punched/taken, but by the end of the season I was friends with all of the patrollers and they would just ask me to let them know when my last run was so they didn't have to try and "chase me" through the trees and a small 25' drop.
That's funny! If they punched your pass more than once and they DIDN'T want to chase you, you probably would have lost your pass!
My daughter eventually landed on the ski patrol staff at Yellowstone Club more than 10 years ago. She did have to go through a pretty rigorous wilderness EMT course (job requirement) that took about 6 weeks if I recall and it was held near Mt. Washington in NH. She was really into that stuff. She did a snow study/ avalanche class at Jackson Hole one winter when she was in college. They spent a week in a mountain hut somewhere in the Teton range and it snowed about 5' during the week. Anyway she got pretty immersed in the ski patrol culture. A while ago I asked her if she remembers that we (me, her brother and her) got our tickets punched in Snowbird. We were above the Little Cloud lift and cut over to an area where patrol was just opening the ropes. Because there was a traffic jamb at the opening, I cut across just above the crowd a little bit and the kids followed. Being an idiot tourist from NJ, ski patrol was NOT amused. When I reminded her about it she said "you can be a real jerk" :(
 
Oct 30, 2017
183
Catalina c 27 Lake Pueblo
My best ski patrol memory was one night when we turned the lights off, the northern lights were out and they were just incredible.

Myself and two other guys were standing on top of my Jeep (Cherokee) they felt so close, our hands up in the air.
Then we all just looked at each other, jumped down, grabbed our gear ran back and did two runs with the northern lights.

It was absolutely amazing.
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,079
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
If you ever get a chance, get a copy of Swift...Silent...Deep by Teton Gravity Research. It's a so-called documentary, but mainly a glorification of the Jackson Hole Air Force cult. It's a very interesting film. It goes very much into the culture of out of bounds skiing and conflicts with Ski Patrol. It's well worth the viewing.