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Hunters WB Demise

Discussion in 'Smaller Boats' started by GBGraham, Mar 11, 2018. Add this thread to a FAQ

  1. walt

    walt

    Joined Jun 1, 2007
    3,236 posts, 369 likes
    Macgregor 26S Hobie TI, Capri Coronado 15
    US Denver, Colorado
    From the other thread - does this apply to the boat above?

    Suppose I came into Crazy Daves show room and said I wanted a big roomy cruiser but it is very important to me that its easy to trailer and setup.

    I would of course love to have the deep heavy keel.. but given where I live now.. that boat would seriously miss the mark. The easy to trailer aspect must have driven the water ballast designs - and a lot of them were sold (and unfortanately for someone trying to sell new boats, the used boats are all still around). I dont think anything "modern" is better for trailering.
     


  2. Bosman

    Bosman

    Joined Oct 24, 2010
    333 posts, 41 likes
    Solina 27
    CA Wabamun, Alberta
    To some boats it will, to some other not. Some of the trailerables will have combination of wide(er) beam, but within the 2.54m EU's towing limit (8' 4") combined with internal ballast and heavy centreboard with weight of roughly 130-220lbs. In terms of stability, TES 246 Versus, for example, is said to sails in 20kt of wind under full sail without fighting for one's life or fighting with the boat (internal ballast + centreboard), while keeping shallow draft of about 12 inches. With the trailer these boats will be in the towing weight of 5000-6500lbs, nothing for a modern SUV or vehicle like Grand Cherokee of BMW X5. Keep in mind the towing capacities for a given vehicle in Europe are higher than for the same vehicle in North America and the notion of a pick-up truck is not really popular. There are literally thousands of these boats being trailered each year and the design does work very well indeed.
    Interestingly, the water ballast idea was never popular on the other side of the pond.
     


  3. Jackdaw

    Jackdaw

    Joined Nov 8, 2010
    8,994 posts, 2,280 likes
    Beneteau First 36.7 & 260
    US Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
    The Deep-heavy comment was for the 31 footer, not the 24-26 footers in the thread. The all of the boats discussed in that range are trailer-able, most with retractable keels.
     


  4. Rick Macdonald

    Rick Macdonald

    Joined Jun 2, 2004
    565 posts, 26 likes
    Hunter 23.5
    CA Calgary, Canada
    Years ago I years ago I heard a criticism of heavy weighted centerboards, such as Catalina? But I was never sure if it was true.

    The comment was that if the boat is knocked down the centerboard can swing up into the hull but then when it rights again the heavy centerboard goes flying down and can rip out the bottom of the boat. It sounds plausible but is there any truth to it?
     


  5. MaxinCalgary

    MaxinCalgary

    Joined Apr 8, 2013
    160 posts, 7 likes
    Hunter 260
    CN Nanaimo
    I was at the Southampton boat show in September
    Looked at a MAXUS 26 from Northman Yatchs.
    That is what a modern trailersailer would be like .
    It’s also about 100K fully loaded
     


  6. GBGraham

    GBGraham

    Joined Nov 10, 2017
    153 posts, 11 likes
    Hunter Legend 260
    Omega Gr Epidavros
    [QUOTE="Bosman, post: There are literally thousands of these boats being trailered each year and the design does work very well indeed.
    Interestingly, the water ballast idea was never popular on the other side of the pond.[/QUOTE]

    I do agree with the most of your post, but this side of the pond was blitzed by the various Macgregor 26's. Always at the boat shows doing the sales pitch, back again to the power of marketing!! The 26's have very little competition in the WB trailersailor. The other manufactures had a lot more models in there portfolio where to my knowledge Macgregor only the 26 and the 65 (not much difference there then?).
    Over here Macgregors where really slaughtered by the purists and the luddites. So much so it killed off peoples perception of WB boats.
    But they did/do have a place with some people, but sorry to say not me. Some years ago I sailed with friends couple times, seemed to do all what it said on the tin but in my mind none of it well.
     


  7. Jackdaw

    Jackdaw

    Joined Nov 8, 2010
    8,994 posts, 2,280 likes
    Beneteau First 36.7 & 260
    US Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
    Yep, that's what a new, fully loaded 26 foot sailboat goes for these days.
     


  8. Bosman

    Bosman

    Joined Oct 24, 2010
    333 posts, 41 likes
    Solina 27
    CA Wabamun, Alberta
    Are you talking CAD $ or US $? I have seen the boat as well. Very nicely done and the yard has good reputation for quality and after-sales support. I will be test-sailing Mx 24 Evo late this summer in Poland.
    Absolutely agreed with you! They did sell thousands of them.
     


  9. GBGraham

    GBGraham

    Joined Nov 10, 2017
    153 posts, 11 likes
    Hunter Legend 260
    Omega Gr Epidavros
    A lot of manufactures are using Poland for their builds, mostly for the GRP work (hulls and topsides) and shipped back to their respective home yards for completion, some have relocated there. The Poles and also the Croats (old Yugoslavia) are turning out some pretty decent models in their own rights too.
     


  10. GBGraham

    GBGraham

    Joined Nov 10, 2017
    153 posts, 11 likes
    Hunter Legend 260
    Omega Gr Epidavros
    It's the profit that makes things expensive:biggrin:
     


  11. Dennis Kitchen

    Dennis Kitchen

    Joined Jun 4, 2004
    341 posts, 88 likes
    Hunter 23.5 and 25
    US Stockton State Park Marina; MO
    ...but profit for everyone, the rig maker, the hardware makers, the resin and glass makers, the canvas makers, the mechanicals makers, etc. And all these people have to pay their own bills too and feed their kids and put them through college.
    Dennis
     


    GGordonWoody and jwilcoxon78 like this.
  12. Daveinet

    Daveinet

    Joined Sep 20, 2014
    857 posts, 140 likes
    Rob Legg RL24
    US Chain O'Lakes
    I personally think it is a waste of money to buy a new monohull as a day sailor/weekend cruiser. Farrier has a tri that is trailerable and is less than 50 grand. It makes no sense to buy a boat that heels, and will only do 6 knots. You can sail flat at 3 times the speed in the F22 for half the money.

    Incidentally, as a monohull, when you get a smaller boat, your passengers make up some of your ballast. A medium weight swing keel, and a planing hull, you can sail with full sails up to 20 to 25 knots. The trick is that if the boat will plane, the speed of the boat reduces the wind load on the sails. High winds just translate into speed rather than heel.
     


  13. Kermit

    Kermit

    Joined Jul 31, 2010
    4,622 posts, 1,806 likes
    Hunter 260
    US Lake Murray Sailing Club, SC
    It sounds like you feel the need. The need for speed.

     


  14. Bosman

    Bosman

    Joined Oct 24, 2010
    333 posts, 41 likes
    Solina 27
    CA Wabamun, Alberta
    For me, it would be much better idea to buy a new comfortable monohull with all the comforts of home than a lakefront cabin. But again, we don't day-sail but do whole weekends plus often 1 extra day throughout the summer.
     


    GBGraham likes this.
  15. Daveinet

    Daveinet

    Joined Sep 20, 2014
    857 posts, 140 likes
    Rob Legg RL24
    US Chain O'Lakes
    The F22 does have a head, standup room with a pop-top, so similar features to most boats in that size category.

    And yes, there is a need for speed, especially on days where the wind is barely blowing.
     


  16. Jackdaw

    Jackdaw

    Joined Nov 8, 2010
    8,994 posts, 2,280 likes
    Beneteau First 36.7 & 260
    US Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
    The F22 is indeed a very nice boat, and very quick. The engineering and productization that went in to it are superb.

    But is IS very small inside, with one open area where four people can lay down like sardines. No galley area or head. That's not a disparagement, the boat is designed for lightness and it is small. But it's not going to meet the needs of many that want TRUE standing headroom, and more dedicated spaces for galleys and heads etc. Indeed, it's the exact opposite of what people are looking for in a H260.

    For its intended use and market, I think it's a marvel.
     


  17. Bosman

    Bosman

    Joined Oct 24, 2010
    333 posts, 41 likes
    Solina 27
    CA Wabamun, Alberta
    The main hull beam and standing height are not acceptable for me. Pop-ups belong to the past century and the interior is very uninviting. But this is the price one pays for speed and for that F22 really excels. For me, no way.
    F22
    [​IMG]
    Mx 24 Evo, for example
    [​IMG]
     


  18. Jackdaw

    Jackdaw

    Joined Nov 8, 2010
    8,994 posts, 2,280 likes
    Beneteau First 36.7 & 260
    US Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
    FYI, the F22 starts at US$75,000, ex of sails, furlers, trailer, winches, portapottie, bow nets, etc. All in you're going to be over 90k.
     


  19. Bosman

    Bosman

    Joined Oct 24, 2010
    333 posts, 41 likes
    Solina 27
    CA Wabamun, Alberta
    At 2018 Toronto Boat Show TES 246 was advertised at CAD $70K (US$ that is about $55K) sail away price for relatively well equipped version (show version with heating, hot water installation and other gadgets was CAD $85K).
     


  20. Daveinet

    Daveinet

    Joined Sep 20, 2014
    857 posts, 140 likes
    Rob Legg RL24
    US Chain O'Lakes
    Shifting economies. Last year, is was listing out under $50K. I would consider it a day sailor / weekender. Yes, it would be cramped for longer than a night or 2. Of course if the weather is good, the best place to sleep is on the trampoline.