Hunter 240 Rig Tuning & Mast Raising

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Oct 20, 2008
5
Hunter 249 Italy
Aurinko III is a Hunter 240 which I bought new in 1998. I have sailed her fair amount since. Being retired now I am free to spend more time on her. Although I live in France, the boat is in Southern Tuscany in Italy, where I use her to cruise amongst the Tuscan Islands and the coast. Life could be much worse.
Over the years the tenderness of the boat has been a bit of a handicap; my wife and daughters rarely join me for a sail because they don’t like “walking on the bulkheads", so, with more time available, I decided to tune the mast and rigging properly in the hope of controlling things better. A contributor to this forum wrote an excellent article in January, 2002 on 260 rig tuning which was most useful. I bought a gauge for measuring wire tension, checked the rigging, T bolts and toggles on the rigging screws (all in pretty decent condition) and set Aurinko III up so she was horizontal in both the longitudinal and the lateral planes to around 0.2%;
Using the main halyard with a chunky weight on the end I set the mast up so as to be vertical in the lateral plane and raked by 1° in the longitudinal one.
It was when I started snugging down the upper shrouds that my problems started:
1/ the mast started bending as soon as upper shroud tension exceeded 2% of breaking load
2/ to compensate I started snugging down the lower shrouds to keep the mast straight
3/ the lower shrouds built up tension very quickly. With the upper shroud tension of 8% the lowers had to be tightened to 12% of breaking load yet the mast curve was 4 inches – Hunter’s recommended maximum.
By further tightening the uppers until I had reached the limits of the rigging screws I achieved little: upper shroud tension only went to about 10% after 6 extra turns on each of the upper rigging screws. I therefore loosened them a bit, took the tension back down to 8% and considered the job done. No point putting extra forces on the hull if I got no more tension in the shrouds and forestay.
I was impressed and rather intimidated by the tension in the forestay, it had never been as tight as this.
The following day I wanted to lower the mast in preparation for the trip to the crane for launching. No way! The forestay tension was so high that the mainsheet tackle was quite inadequate to pull the mast forward and release the pressure on the stemhead fitting. Freeing the forestay pin and toggle was impossible. Finally I put a rigging screw between the U bolt in the anchor locker and the mainsheet tackle and screwing that down as tightly as it would go. This was still not enough to release the pressure on the forestay toggle and pin so I started loosening up on the upper shrouds, giving a turn on the forestay rigging screw from time to time. After a while I had the rigging loose enough to be able to release the forestay and lower the mast. I doubt whether it’s a good idea to put such forces on the anchor locker U bolt.
The outcome of all this is that I have upper shrouds that are set up to about 5% of breaking load, lowers that are still at around 10% and a forestay which is pretty tight (at least by my standards). Raising and lowering the mast has become far more difficult because the mainsheet tackle is no longer man enough for the job – it needs the help of that rigging screw to overcome the pull of the shrouds.
Aurinko III has a Selden mast, not the usual American one; this may make a difference to tuning procedures.
Let me summarise my tuning problems:
1/ How come that my mast is bending so quickly and needs so much tension in the lowers to respect Hunter bending specifications?
2/ Hunter say that upper and lower shrouds should carry a tension of about 20% of breaking load. How come I can only get 10% on my uppers and the tension in my lowers far exceeds that in the uppers?
3/ How can you tune the mast and rigging in such a way that the excellent Hunter mast-raising and mast lowering system works properly without having to re-adjust the rigging screws each time. My experience is that the tuning process puts far more tension into the forestay than you can overcome using the normal Hunter mast raising system. It seems that you can either have a tuned boat, or you can use the Hunter mast raising system; if you want both then you must be prepared to compromise.
I would be most grateful for any guidance members can offer on these matters.
Finally, one of the obvious measures with a tender boat is to reduce weight aloft. Aurinko III already has DYNEEMA halyards and shackles for this reason. Has anyone experimented with DYNEEMA shrouds and carbon fibre masts?
Many thanks for your help and interest
Tim Kenney
 

Clark

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Jun 30, 2004
886
Hunter 280 Lake Guntersville, AL
Tim, I hope other 240 owners chime in especially re: rigging setup but I would like to add that rig tuning will not have an appreciable effect on how tender your boat is. Hunters water ballasted boats heel easilly the first few degrees then firm up until they get over powered. Are you reefing as soon as appropriate? Try reefing sooner to keep her more flat. Are you trimming your mainsail too much? This induces heel and stalls the main without adding forward motion. Are you playing the gusts with the mainsheet? (assuming you do not have a traveler). Just some general food for thought.
 
Oct 20, 2008
5
Hunter 249 Italy
Hi, Clark, thanks for your thoughts. I am very impressed by what you Americans get out of the Hunter 260 and 240 boats. People say they have sailed in 30 knots of wind - you wouldn't find me out there on my boat under those conditions. One of my objectives in tuning the rigging was to flatten the top of the sail, probably I've flattened it too far. As far as sail tuning is concerned I'm a bit frustrated by the inbuilt limitations of the boat, roller reefing jib (great, but untunable), no mainsheet track and the inability to control mast bend when sailing. I suppose you're right, the solution is to sail her like a sailing dinghy; I have been a cruising man all my life and I'm not used to sailing boats with the mainsheet in my hand.
As far as the "tenderness" of the boat is concerned, my last boat was a 35 ft gaff ketch of 13 tons. She needed a gale to get going. In camparison to that the 240 is a very tender boat indeed. I fully take your point concerning the firming up as she heels - absolutely true - but not enough!
How do you manage the trade-off between forestay tension and mast raising, Clark?
Thanks for your help. Tim
 

Clark

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Jun 30, 2004
886
Hunter 280 Lake Guntersville, AL
Tim, I'm afraid that the ability to dynamically tune the rig with adjustable backstays and travelers and heavy displacements per length of boat have been sacrificed for ease of sailing (set & steer), trailerability and cost. You might be able to add a traveler to help with main tuning and adjustment but the standing rigging is-what-it-is.

Hopefully, some 240 or 23.5 owners will step in and provide tips on how they set theirs up for sailing and trailering.
 
Aug 9, 2005
825
Hunter 260 Sarasota,FL
I owned a 240 for a year and have now owned a 260 for 3yrs. Tuning the rig begins by setting the tension on the upper and lower mast shrouds to acceptable tension without the influence of any forestay tension. Balanced tension is the goal so basically set it from a free standing position. Then tune the side stays(which influences the forestay). The length of the the forestay adjustment should be adequate to replace the pin w/o undue effort.

Personally we have used a folding closure on the forestay pin of both boats for years and would never go without it. Our system on the 260 is set up to easily step the mast on the water(even underway) singlehanded with a very small portable 12v atv winch w/remote and a small jump start batt pack. It has performed flawlessly and safely for years. Our 240 12v winch was setup on the trailer, ran over a bow roller hung by a hook on the pulpit then up to the gin pole and could also haul the boat onto the trailer(see pics below)

The nature of your 240 will always be tender, and yes your crew will need to be able to cope with that or you'll need to go back to the big boat or find something they'll be happy in. It's been said so many times it's unreal but you have to shorten the sail at about 11-13kts. And you're totally right to forget about sailing the 240 when it's truly over 18kts. Anybody saying they're still sailing their 240 in wind over 20kts is blowin' smoke and you now know it's true.

This boat is happiest in about 8-10kts but suffers the fussiness of a high freeboard lightweight trailerable lake boat(a big dinghy) when it's pushed too far. We loved our 240 for everything it did well but why ask too much of it. As for keeping the crew happy.....pick your days carefully my friend.
Aloha and fair winds.
Michael and Kelli
Sarasota, Fl
 

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Dave D

.
May 7, 2009
143
hunter 26 Jordan Lake
Michael/Kelli, where did you get the folding closure for your forestay? Did you assemble it or buy it whole? Looks like you're hyper-vigilant about dropping parts in the drink. I'm sure there's a good story or two there. Looks incredibly easy and well set-up. Also looks like a well maintained vessel.
 
Oct 20, 2008
5
Hunter 249 Italy
That was such a great reply that I'm not sure how to react. Many thanks.
1/ I understand what you mean by balanced tension, but how in the world do you achieve that? When you tighten the uppers the B&R rig inevitably puts tension on the forestay and starts bending the mast.
2/ You show a good photo of your folding closure and, again, I can see how it works, but where can you get one? I've never seen anything like that available at a chandlery in Europe.
As far as an electrical winching system is concerned, I can't use that as I never launch from the hard (I do love my trailer wheel bearings) and the local crane drivers prefer to launch and recover without masts in the way. Can't blame them.
You are the first people to come clean in the fact that these boats are not able to take more than 18 knots of wind. God, is it good to hear an honest word!
As for the virtues of the 240 design, few will challenge your view; genuine trailability of a decent-sized boat, good layout, decent build, large cockpit, clever mast-raising system, shallow-draft, price and good performance all adds up to a pretty good deal. Taking advantage of all that is sensible and I, too, have enjoyed Aurinko III for years, however, it was sold in Europe as a CE Category C boat, which means maxima of 20 miles offshore, Force 6 wind and 2 meter (say 6 ft) seas. I don't know whether the CE Categories apply in the US. In any case given what you say, sailing the 240 20 miles offshore seems a lousy idea and I forget my equivalences but I have the impression that 18 knots is less than Force 6. As you say, you want to be very careful indeed about the weather you choose.
Just wish I could change the boat into a genuine Category C craft!
Many thanks for such a helpful reply
Tim
I owned a 240 for a year and have now owned a 260 for 3yrs. Tuning the rig begins by setting the tension on the upper and lower mast shrouds to acceptable tension without the influence of any forestay tension. Balanced tension is the goal so basically set it from a free standing position. Then tune the side stays(which influences the forestay). The length of the the forestay adjustment should be adequate to replace the pin w/o undue effort.

Personally we have used a folding closure on the forestay pin of both boats for years and would never go without it. Our system on the 260 is set up to easily step the mast on the water(even underway) singlehanded with a very small portable 12v atv winch w/remote and a small jump start batt pack. It has performed flawlessly and safely for years. Our 240 12v winch was setup on the trailer, ran over a bow roller hung by a hook on the pulpit then up to the gin pole and could also haul the boat onto the trailer(see pics below)

The nature of your 240 will always be tender, and yes your crew will need to be able to cope with that or you'll need to go back to the big boat or find something they'll be happy in. It's been said so many times it's unreal but you have to shorten the sail at about 11-13kts. And you're totally right to forget about sailing the 240 when it's truly over 18kts. Anybody saying they're still sailing their 240 in wind over 20kts is blowin' smoke and you now know it's true.

This boat is happiest in about 8-10kts but suffers the fussiness of a high freeboard lightweight trailerable lake boat(a big dinghy) when it's pushed too far. We loved our 240 for everything it did well but why ask too much of it. As for keeping the crew happy.....pick your days carefully my friend.
Aloha and fair winds.
Michael and Kelli
Sarasota, Fl
 

Clark

.
Jun 30, 2004
886
Hunter 280 Lake Guntersville, AL
I think you'll find that boats can take on worse sailing conditions than the owner can ;-)

I'm sure the 240 can be managed in winds higher than 18; it just takes a skilled captain and crew/passengers that don't mind the pitching and heeling stronger winds would bring. Doable but probably not much fun.
 
Aug 11, 2006
1,446
Hunter H260 Traverse City
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Oct 20, 2008
5
Hunter 249 Italy
Hi, Clark,
Sorry for this late reply, I'm in a place which only offers the most basic access to the net, and, being on holiday, I only look at the forum from time to time.
I don't disagree with your statement that a boat can usually take more than its crew - provided she has ample sea room. As a coastal cruising sailor I think that security is the ability to beat off a lee shore. When conditions become difficult that requires considerable sail area and decent sail-carrying ability, or a powerful and effective engine. The 240 will heel to more than 20° (said to be its maximum efficient heeling angle) in a force 3 under full sail, shortly after that the rudder blade becomes ineffective and the boat luffs, so you have to reef in any case. The outboard motor arrangements are only practical without waves, once a decent wave pattern has built up the prop spends much of its time out of the water, particularly if you try to motor sail on the startboard tack. In a force 4 or 5 under sail you need to reef simply in order to keep the rudder blade in the water. I would never want to have to beat off a lee shore against a force 6 wind in a Hunter 240. I have already had problems with the rudder blade under much gentler conditions than that and between heeling and worrying about the rudder such conditions would worry me silly. Maybe I'm just a coward!
Tim
I think you'll find that boats can take on worse sailing conditions than the owner can ;-)

I'm sure the 240 can be managed in winds higher than 18; it just takes a skilled captain and crew/passengers that don't mind the pitching and heeling stronger winds would bring. Doable but probably not much fun.
 
Oct 20, 2008
5
Hunter 249 Italy
H240 Rig Tuning

Hi, George,
Sorry for this late reply, I'm on holiday in a place with very basic internet access so i don't look at the forum that often.
Maybe I've just become a bit cynical on this question of setting up the B&R rig on a H240. The reality is that this is a fine weather boat which just shouldn't be out sailing if there's more than 20 knots of wind. The guys who say the upper shrouds should be tightened to 20% of breaking load are talking of the B&R rig on heavier boats with better sail-carrying ability. Those boats will be out under winds of force 8 or more. As you say, provided the leeward shrouds are not loose under "normal" conditions (say 12 knots of wind on a H240) the B&R rig is set up fine. That means that 20% of breaking load is far too high for a H240 - all you get is a forestay that's so tight that you can't fix the stemhead toggle.
In other words, I think you are absolutely right.
Tim
Tim:

I think you may be over thinking this and maybe should start over. The H240 is just a smaller copy of the H260. Have you visited this link?

http://h260.com/rigging/rigging.html


Also a much longer and detailed discussion here:

http://sbo.sailboatowners.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=35&Itemid=87

Bottom line: If the leeward shrouds are not slack you are OK, no need to crank it down so you can't get the forestay pinned.
 

BrianW

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Jan 7, 2005
843
Hunter 26 Guntersville Lake, (AL)
Re: H240 Rig Tuning

Hi Tim: I have the bigger older sister of the H240, an H-26. I think you are definitely over-sweating the details. I suggest stepping back and going back to the basics. With 3 mainsail reef points and a roller furler, I can comfortably sail in 25 knot winds with very little heel. My boat looks almost comical with just scraps of main and a foot of jib showing.... but in 25 knot winds, it works! The water-ballasted Hunters are very forgiving with mast tuning. Too much heeling is most likely due to excessive sail area for the wind conditions, not poorly tuned rigging. Also, I learned very quickly, you can't use your outboard while under sail with with hardly any heel. Please understand, the above comments are in no way criticisms of your abilities, they are part of the same learning curve I went through. I learned some of the same lessons during a single 1-minute period: a 40 degree heel, an outboard propeller thrashing in mid-air, rudder "floated" up and out of the water (no control), the aft end of the boom skimming the water, following 7-foot seas.......and a screaming wife! BrianW
 

Alan

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Jun 2, 2004
4,174
Hunter 35.5 LI, NY
A little bit of correction from what Clark said. Flattening the main 'de-powers' it which leads to less heel not more. Unfortunately this boat doesn't have a traveler which leaves the main sheet to do the work of both 'twist' and 'angle of attack'.
When the main sheet is used to control angle of attack such as in a puff, the vang should be used to control twist. This is known as 'vang sheeting' and is VERY effective for keeping a boat up on its feet and under control in a puff.
Try vanging down really hard to flatten the main (de-powering it) and use the mainsheet as a traveler to control angle of attack.
 

Clark

.
Jun 30, 2004
886
Hunter 280 Lake Guntersville, AL
Good point Alan. I was thinking of his questions about standing rigging tuning when I made those earlier comments; not running rigging.
 
Aug 9, 2005
825
Hunter 260 Sarasota,FL
Hey Dave I found my forestay closure at a used marine hardware store but it is regularly sold by Johnson Marine (Link) www.csjohnson.com/
Do a search for "quick release lever". There's some rigging that'll be needed but it's certainly worth it if you step the mast more than a few times a year. And yes all my pins are attached with a short lanyard to prevent a ruined day. Of course I haven't dropped one since I put a leash on everything;).

My sailing background was a couple decades of only sailing with hd eqt I'd owned for wind 15kts+ and certainly not in a cozy/comfortable lightweight lake boat which my newest(read aging) lifestyle demands. That's not to say that I won't push the boats safe limits well beyond its design intent but truly the boat's very uncomfortable and unmannerly beyond about 18kts(although it obviously CAN be done). No offense to anyone who is comfortable bobbing around with a hanky on the mast to claim they went sailing in their lake/bay boat(which is cool too). On the other hand just about any boat will get you home in a blow if you keep a calm head about you. Is it enjoyable?......generally not in this style of boat.

My point was only that there is eqt that is better designed for every venue and this ones perfect zone is 5-12kts on a fine day. But I wispfully remember the days sailing other boats when the gulf was way overhead and covered with a blowin' froth........and then i wake up in a quiet anchorage in my comfy waterbourn RVs aft berth and mix another margarita to sooth my old achin' knees:). Hey kelli do you remeber the blowin days you sat on the beach waitin for me to get back in? (rolling her eyes) "Yeeesss, and I'm quite done with that" she says. Yeah but those were the days, eh?

Aloha and fair wind, my friends
Mike & Kelli

Pic from last wknd doing what our H260 does best. Entertaining and raftup overnight with friends.
 

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bmorr

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Apr 5, 2009
75
Hunter 26 Pueblo Lake CO
I started sailing a 26 in July, having sold my Mack. A traveler was added to the mac, and on my previous boat I installed tracks for the foresail lines.
I think I will just have an additional reef put in my main sail on the Hunter, although I have been tempted to put in a travelor. Has anyone added a travelor?
I sail on a very deep lake (125') so we don't get as much wave action as some lakes, but we do get 20mph plus winds pretty regular.
 
May 16, 2007
1,509
Boatless ! 26 Ottawa, Ontario
Tim a couple of points about these boats.

I have a 260, have never sailed a 240 but from what I hear they are quite similar.

I find when there is a gust of wind I turn into the wind to reduce heeling and avoid having to release the mainsheet. I also bring the vang down hard as has already been suggested.

I added a block to the mainsail outhaul to more easily flatten the sail when required. The stock system is inadequate.

My mainsail reefing/control lines are led aft under the boom to allow easy trimming from the cockpit.

I looked at the cut of the luff of my maisail and matched the bend in my mast to match the luff curve in the sail so that it will flatten the main and reduce heeling.

Without genoa tracks the jib can be moved up or down the furler foil a bit to fine tune the jib.

The Johnson lever is a great idea I just added one to my boat, bought it from Defender.com.

I also like to use my Ipod touch to measure the mast angle, it has an inexpensive app that works great to check mast rake. The bridge deck on our boat is flat in normal sailing trim so I then use the Ipod to check the mast fore and aft and side to side mast angles. I have 1* of rake.

I think if the crew get used to the quick way the boat moves the first few degrees they will soon realize it hardens up after that and all will be ok. Maybe if you put them on the helm it might build confidence in the boat.

best wishes of the season, Bob
 
Jul 1, 2010
962
Catalina 350 Lake Huron
First a couple of quotes I noticed from the above posts:

"Anybody saying they're still sailing their 240 in wind over 20kts is blowin' smoke and you now know it's true.*"

Not true. I've been out in 30 kt winds in my 23.5 and the boat and my wife and I survived just fine, though we had our hands full and it was nerve racking. The wind was never the problem. Having too much sail out was.

"I think you'll find that boats can take on worse sailing conditions than the owner can ;-)"

Very true. See above.

It sounds to me like you've got things tensioned too much. I don't have any experience with the 240, but here's how I do my 23.5. Loosen the sides so they are not putting much tension on the mast at all. Adjust the forestay to get the mast rake correct for the boat. Adjust the uppers so they're "just right" and the mast is centered side to side. Sorry don't have a tension gauge, but they shouldn't be so tight that they bend the mast. Snug up the lowers, so the mast is straight when sighting up the mast groove. They should be looser than the uppers. Take it for a sail in 10-ish kt winds. On port tack (close reach) sight up the mast and adjust the the port side lower a little tighter if the mast bends toward starboard in the middle. The starboard side lower will feel a somewhat loose when on the port tack...that's ok. Do the same thing on a starboard tack for the other side. Mast should now be straight on both tacks and tension should be in the ballpark. You should be able to attach the forestay without much problem when stepping the mast.

As far as the boat goes, it will be way more tender than what you were probably used to. Though initially tender, the 23.5 is very predicable and rounds up on it's own if it gets gusted badly. Also, make sure you have a boom vang on it,

This video should either give you more faith in your boat (or make you afraid to sail it :) :

http://www.giantwaves.com/videos-huntercapsize-[w00suzaDh_A].cfm

Note: for some reason I can't copy and paste the above link in so the entire link works. you'll just have to copy and paste the above link into your browser to get it to work.

Scott

Edit: just noticed that this thread was pulled out of mothballs a couple of posts back...Timeless info, right. The video's entertaining, anyhow.
 
May 25, 2004
958
Hunter 260 Pepin, WI
Traveler

I use a simple block and tackle for a traveler. I attach the upper block to the end of the boom and the lower block to the windward life line stanchion.

This allows me to pull the boom toward the center without pulling the boom down.

When I tack, the line goes slack. I swap the lower block back to the windward side after I am stable on the new tack.

This block and tackle also doubles as a preventer when I am running downwind.

(Search for my other forum posts for a photo of the block and tackle. I'm on Holiday too :) )

http://forums.hunter.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=739788#post739788
 
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