New to me Hunter 216 about 14 years old. The shackle from the keel to the hydraulic piston cable is pulled right out of the lead keel. Also, crack near chain plate, pictures attached. Any direction or advice is appreciated. Thanks, Keith
Hunter 216 keel problem
- Thread starter Dillard
- Start date
I'd look hard at why the keel attachment point let go like that, first. Friction? Over-tensioning or a combination of factors?
Then, I'd look at the possibility of installing a longer shackle (at least an inch longer) through a new hole below the ripped out one.
Finally, I'd clean and create dams on either side of the old attachment point, heat the repair area and pour new lead.
Dunno 'bout the cracked deck and hull, except for fiberglassing the heck out of it, preferably from the inside. Oops, is it one of those APC hulls?
I know, that's a can of worms!
@Crazy Dave Condon may have something.
Then, I'd look at the possibility of installing a longer shackle (at least an inch longer) through a new hole below the ripped out one.
Finally, I'd clean and create dams on either side of the old attachment point, heat the repair area and pour new lead.
Dunno 'bout the cracked deck and hull, except for fiberglassing the heck out of it, preferably from the inside. Oops, is it one of those APC hulls?
I know, that's a can of worms!
@Crazy Dave Condon may have something.
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Thanks Dave, I guess this failure is rare, I couldn't find any examples of attempted fixes.
I have an idea to pour new lead and fasten a ss strap into the lead, over the piece that pulled out and use the same hole. I need to research info about working with lead. I see lots of discussion about cracks in APC but not much about how to repair or how likely repairs will hold up. I don't care about looks, has anyone used plastic adhesive to bond a patch layer of a similar material under or over the crack?
I have an idea to pour new lead and fasten a ss strap into the lead, over the piece that pulled out and use the same hole. I need to research info about working with lead. I see lots of discussion about cracks in APC but not much about how to repair or how likely repairs will hold up. I don't care about looks, has anyone used plastic adhesive to bond a patch layer of a similar material under or over the crack?
I think your idea to lay a ss strap over the break makes sense... like this...
But I like @justsomeguy idea to use a longer shackle and make a new hole below the original. Either way, I'd put the ss strap in for extra strength and I'd fill the old hole in with thickened epoxy and drill a new hole.
But I like @justsomeguy idea to use a longer shackle and make a new hole below the original. Either way, I'd put the ss strap in for extra strength and I'd fill the old hole in with thickened epoxy and drill a new hole.
On the chain plate... it looks like that is for the shrouds. Is the crack structural or just in the gel coat. If it is just gel coat, it is cosmetic. If not... you need to fix it. You might be able to use a larger backing plate. I dunno without seeing the inside attachment point on the hull.
@chuckwayne
Please help on centerboard housing as it would appear replacement may be necessary.
Chain plate attachment will need to come off to repair crack. Most often this crack came from an over tightened shrouds which need to be loosened. Need to talk with owner and suggest a private message. Then I can report back
Please help on centerboard housing as it would appear replacement may be necessary.
Chain plate attachment will need to come off to repair crack. Most often this crack came from an over tightened shrouds which need to be loosened. Need to talk with owner and suggest a private message. Then I can report back
Seems to be a funny crack location and direction to be created by shroud tension pulling UPWARDS. Normally a crack will propagate 90 degrees to the load, and not in-line with it. That APS stuff is a nightmare.
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Thanks very much for your insight guys. It nice to have an opportunity to bang ideas around among people with experience
If you need help on crack repair send me a message
As for the bracket I would not attempt a weld and would be concerned at anode hole being drilled but I leave that up to chuck Wayne. Send him a message but you may have to bit the bullet for a new bracket
As for the bracket I would not attempt a weld and would be concerned at anode hole being drilled but I leave that up to chuck Wayne. Send him a message but you may have to bit the bullet for a new bracket
I have the same problem (centerboard uphaul system pulled out of centerboard) and have not been able to convince any one to even try a repair. It does make launching/ retrieving the boat a considerable challenge. My research suggest the mechanism is as simple as giving a pump or two to the hydraulic piston when the centerboard is already up. If you find a solution I'd be happy to join join you for potential cost reductions..
there's no backing on the chainplate, just a couple of washers. After repairing the hull I'd reinstall the chainplate with a much larger backing plate.
As for the keel, don't try pouring lead unless you know what you're doing - dangerous and toxic. I'd either try rgranger's longer shackle idea or try to put a plate on each side, thru bolted, epoxy fill the break and drill thru the side plates to carry the shackle. that way the load will be in shear, not in tension on two lag bolts. A better way to lift 500lbs IMHO.
As for the keel, don't try pouring lead unless you know what you're doing - dangerous and toxic. I'd either try rgranger's longer shackle idea or try to put a plate on each side, thru bolted, epoxy fill the break and drill thru the side plates to carry the shackle. that way the load will be in shear, not in tension on two lag bolts. A better way to lift 500lbs IMHO.
Lead that is used in sailboat keels is often a cobbled together witches brew of scrap lead that was available at the time. The mechanical properties of lead alloys vary quite a bit. I have cast alloys of lead from 6 Brinell to over 35 Brinell in hardness. The harder stuff can get pretty brittle if you don't mix in enough tin to add back some ductility. The type of fracture that I see in the picture is somewhere between what I would expect to see from a typesetter's alloy, like Linotype or an alloy that had been poisoned by the addition of a small amount of zinc. Softer alloys of lead (closer to pure lead) would stretch before breaking.
If zinc is in there, you are screwed. In that case, fractures will keep appearing & recasting the whole keel with the same material would not improve the situation. If the lead was just too hard from a high content of antimony, then adding in about 4-6% tin may be enough to give you back some structural integrity. Antimonyal hard leads are common in things like Babbitt bearings, that do occasionally show up at the scrap yards. You do want a little bit of antimony in there to prevent the keel from bending too easily, but too much, can be a bad thing.
That repair could be done by an experienced guy with a couple of steel forming plates, an acetylene torch & a few pounds of good lead alloy. You would need to find the right guy. I don't know anyone out on the sand bar that is up to the task, but if you look around, you might get lucky & find someone. An old school plumber that grew up doing oakum joints might be able to help you.
If it were my boat, I would probably fix the lead. If you can't find a good lead guy, then you might want to go to a local machine shop & have them mill some grooves into the keel. You could then fit stainless flat bar into the milled slots & bolt them through a larger area of the good part of the keel to give you a new attachment point.
As for the cracks in the ACP, I have seen cracks in that direction on the top surfaces of other ACP boats, in areas where no additional stress was added. Those may just be there from the classic problem of the ACP reacting to temperature change. I don't know how the structure is set up inside that hull to support the stress of the chain plate mounts, so I would only be guessing if I gave an opinion of where the stress from those things goes. Perhaps someone else can fill in that blank?
I have had pretty good success with repairing a structural failure on the motor mount of my H170, which is also ACP. So far, my repair is holding up well. The details of my repair are documented in a 2-part write up that can be found here - https://hunter.sailboatowners.com/mods.php?task=model&mid=11&mn=170
If zinc is in there, you are screwed. In that case, fractures will keep appearing & recasting the whole keel with the same material would not improve the situation. If the lead was just too hard from a high content of antimony, then adding in about 4-6% tin may be enough to give you back some structural integrity. Antimonyal hard leads are common in things like Babbitt bearings, that do occasionally show up at the scrap yards. You do want a little bit of antimony in there to prevent the keel from bending too easily, but too much, can be a bad thing.
That repair could be done by an experienced guy with a couple of steel forming plates, an acetylene torch & a few pounds of good lead alloy. You would need to find the right guy. I don't know anyone out on the sand bar that is up to the task, but if you look around, you might get lucky & find someone. An old school plumber that grew up doing oakum joints might be able to help you.
If it were my boat, I would probably fix the lead. If you can't find a good lead guy, then you might want to go to a local machine shop & have them mill some grooves into the keel. You could then fit stainless flat bar into the milled slots & bolt them through a larger area of the good part of the keel to give you a new attachment point.
As for the cracks in the ACP, I have seen cracks in that direction on the top surfaces of other ACP boats, in areas where no additional stress was added. Those may just be there from the classic problem of the ACP reacting to temperature change. I don't know how the structure is set up inside that hull to support the stress of the chain plate mounts, so I would only be guessing if I gave an opinion of where the stress from those things goes. Perhaps someone else can fill in that blank?
I have had pretty good success with repairing a structural failure on the motor mount of my H170, which is also ACP. So far, my repair is holding up well. The details of my repair are documented in a 2-part write up that can be found here - https://hunter.sailboatowners.com/mods.php?task=model&mid=11&mn=170
Thanks, I was able to mill out the lead with a dremel tool and drill a new hole for the shackle. The crack is only in the plastic skin, chain plate is bolted to a fiberglass layer I exposed and inspected. It looks strong and no cracks.
I have another question. I'm not familiar with this rig. When I rigged the boat on the trailer the fore stay, (integrated with the roller furling jib) feels loose. There is no back stay. The fore stay has no adjustments. I tightened the upper side stays to what felt to me like pretty tight to pull the mast back, but there was still slack in the fore stay.
I have another question. I'm not familiar with this rig. When I rigged the boat on the trailer the fore stay, (integrated with the roller furling jib) feels loose. There is no back stay. The fore stay has no adjustments. I tightened the upper side stays to what felt to me like pretty tight to pull the mast back, but there was still slack in the fore stay.
It may be that your forestay has stretched - tightening the shrouds is the adjustment and should get the forestay tight