Hunter 170 in pretty rough shape....

[fendertubeman]

Well folks, my 1998 Hunter 170 is in pretty bad shape. If you owned this boat, what would you do?

There are 2 areas that have sustained structural damage. Here is a link to some photos of the damage: [FONT=&quot]http://gregmcnally.blogspot.com/[/FONT]

The rudder mount: I recently got “pushed” into some shallow marshy areas while sailing in an inland salt water bay, and the rudder mount sustained significant damage and the boat is now taking on water. Keep in mind, I was not going fast at all, but the winds were strong that day. I can’t believe that the “weak link” was the hull itself. Pretty unbelievable. I would have expected the rudder to kick up, screws to pull out, the gudgeon to bend, the rudder to break, etc., before the plywood got physically pulled through the hull.

The engine mount: I have a 2 ½ HP 4 stroke Tohatsu motor – pretty standard on Hunter 170s. 41 pounds dry. As you can see, the mount could not sustain the weight of the motor. Basically as the boat was healing, I encountered some waves, and the plastic skin of the boat tore about 8 inches under the weight of the motor. I’m lucky the entire mount wasn’t ripped off the boat. I'm considering building a greatly reinforced mount on the other side of the stern, given the damage and structural issues on the "factory side".

Considering the extent of all this damage, I am considering using West System Epoxy to repair these 2 damaged areas. I know Devcon Plastic Weld (Plexis) is supposedly the “approved” bonding agent for a Hunter ACP boat, but heck, I’ll need a gallon of the stuff. I also plan on replacing the rotted/damaged wood with ¾” marine plywood. Any comments on that approach?

One final comment: My Hunter 170 is a 1998 model, and from what I’ve read on the web that was a very bad year for 170’s. Apparently Hunter was experimenting with some different manufacturing techniques that ultimately had adverse effects. I have read of some owners actually getting replacement hulls from Hunter. Apparently Hunter acknowledges that there are issues with the 1998 model. Do you think the damage I sustained during “normal use” is a function of a very bad model year? Is Hunter still “making good” on these 1998 models? I do plan on contacting Hunter figuring that I have nothing to lose.

All in all, I’m a bit frustrated with my 170. As I started earlier, if this was your boat, what would you do? Any advice is appreciated. Thanks.

 

[wundrbar]

Welcome to the wold of disgruntled Hunter owners Fendertubeman! Check out the links below for more owners with ACP hull issues. I can give you the contact info for their customer service manager and VP Marketing and Sales but don't hold your breath - they tend to blame their customers before acceptiing any responsibility themselves!!

Hunter 170 Hull Problems

stress cracks

170 Cracked Hull

Trying something different

 

[David Hall22685]

I feel for your problem but with no experience, I repaired mine. I also have a 1998 Hunter 170. I was in the parking lot rigging the boat on a beautiful windy day at the lake. While on the trailer, almost ready to go with the motor attached, the wind caught the jib, unfurled it and blew the boat off the trailer. I busted the port rubrail for about four feet and ripped the motor mount OFF! I have also had several deck cracks and have managed to repair them all! I feel much more comfortable knowing how to repair Hunter plastic which puts me more at ease when sailing. Yes, use Devcon, I bought mine the larger tube with a gun and mixing nozzles which helps much in spreading. Also use fiberglass cloth for added strength. I love my little boat and sail it often. If it cracks again, I will fix it again. Yes, I wish it wouldn't crack, but the joy of sailing it makes fixing it almost fun. I plan on going out tomorrow!!! Cheer up and fix your boat! If this poor stammering preacher can do it, so can you, (probably better!)

 

[fendertubeman]

Thanks for the post. Yes, I was planning on using fiberglass cloth and layering it up for strength.

Quick question - where can I get the larger tubes of Devcon? I'm figuring I will need a lot to get this boat back in shape.

Thanks,
Greg

 

[David Hall22685]

I did a lot of searching on line and finally ended up with a supplier forty miles away, but it was worth it. I still think you can find it on line with the Mark V dispensing gun which is necessary to dispense the larger tubes.

 

[David Hall22685]

I remember calling Hunter and sending them pictures. Their suggestion: total it! I said NO! then they said, good luck and then ended up giving me several good suggestions, one of which was to check with HunterOwners.com for ACP repair, which I did. Nevertheless, Hunter did talk me through some repair problems, so don't hesitate to call them. They can be nice folks on occasion. I have heard of several people getting an entire shell replaced, but they said they couldn't help me there. Oh well, I have a used boat which I am still using!!!

 

[txjim]

For a bit of moral support regarding the fiberglass solution, check out http://www.sailing-obsession.com/ACPrepair.htm.

I repaired a long but non structural crack w/ Plastic Welder and a couple others, all with great success. Follow the guide carefully if you use the Plastic Welder approach(http://www.sailing-obsession.com/ACP Repair.pdf but I suspect you've already seen this). Wet sanding works better than dry.

I've said this before, but many thanks to the Sailing Obsession web site folks for keeping these docs online.

For large areas I would stick with epoxy/fiberglass but I've been working with this combo on other boat projects recently and it's what I'm comfortable with. Having said that, Qoheleth, I'd love to see photos of your Plastic Welder repair.

Edit: After looking at your photos more carefully, I believe you would have good success with the fiberglass repair.

 

[txjim]

Welcome to the wold of disgruntled Hunter owners Fendertubeman! Check out the links below for more owners with ACP hull issues. I can give you the contact info for their customer service manager and VP Marketing and Sales but don't hold your breath - they tend to blame their customers before acceptiing any responsibility themselves!!

Hunter 170 Hull Problems

stress cracks

170 Cracked Hull

Trying something different

Did you bother looking at the pics before you repeated your postings for the 6th time?

 

[David Hall22685]

Well, I have before pictures, but as "Visitation" is currently on the lake, I will have to wait until the end of the month to get some "after" pictures. but here is what I started with.

 

[txjim]

Well, I have before pictures, but as "Visitation" is currently on the lake, I will have to wait until the end of the month to get some "after" pictures. but here is what I started with.

Thanks for the pics! I believe I have a project coming up this winter to solve a minor soft deck issue on the starboard side. Who did you contact regarding structure questions?

 

[David Hall22685]

Sorry to have taken so long to get back to that question but the email I received from Hunter was on the computer in my office and I had to wait until Monday to check it. I talked with Kyle Boyette, Customer Service at Hunter, 1-800-771-5556, but that has been a couple of years ago. Hope he is still there as he was a great help!

I talked with him about my '98 but no thought of hull replacement was offered, I think because the "Wreck of '98" was my fault. Nevertheless, I have a '98 that does have some cracking issues, most of which are fixed with fiberglass and Devcon, Thanks be to God!

 

[fendertubeman]

Hi Qoheleth,
Thanks for those photos and comments. Greatly appreciated. You motor mount issue looks a lot like mine. Just wondering, once you fixed the motor mount, what type of motor (HP and weight) can she support? Also, did you use extra long screws to go all the way through the "plastic-wood-foam-fiberglassBacking" sandwich?

One thing I've been looking into, given the high cost of Devcon Plastic Welder for the quantity I need, is using West System G-Flex epoxy and fibreglass cloth. Apparently it is supposed to work well on plastic. It's not cheap, but cheaper than Devcon from what i can tell.

 

[David Hall22685]

No, I used original screws which seemed long enough to go through the fiberglass (very thin) and the normal layer of plastic and into the wood, probably 3/4" thick. It is rock solid. I have a 2.5 hp Suzuki which I think weighs about 30 lbs. I don't crank it very high as I wouldn't trust the motor mount brand new with the full 2.5 horses pushing it. I simply don't need that much power. I have it and the mount may take it but I am not into pulling water skiers.

Never heard of the g-flex stuff, just know that Devcon worked for me. I did a lot of shopping and found it cheaper in large quantities, which having a '98 figured I would need!

 

[fendertubeman]

This might sound like a dumb question, but do you leave the engine mounted when sailing (as opposed to removing and storing in the bow)? The reason I am asking is because my motor mount was severely damaged while I was sailing, not under power. Basically, as the boat heeled in some heavy air, combined with some motorboat wave action, the sideways movement is what caused the ACP plastic to tear violently about 10 inches along the stern in the motor mount area. I was lucky I didn't loose the engine. It would be pretty pathetic if the engine should have to be removed while under sail, but I just want to be certain that the engine mount can handle the engine's weight while the boat is rocking and heeling. Thanks.

 

[David Hall22685]

I always leave the motor attached. Sometimes I raise it, particularly if the wind is good. If it is iffy, I will leave it down. It just pivots on the mount. My mount is solid enough that I can't imagine waves or heeling or anything else would rip the mount. What caused mine to go was that the boat was blown off the trailer while in the parking lot with the motor on. It wasn't the tipping, it was the sudden stop on the pavement that caused the motor to rip off the mount. I would, however, attach a safety line from your motor to the cleat just in case.

It sounds like your mount may have been weak before it ripped. Normally it shouldn't do that. Even if my boat tipped over, the motor wouldn't rip the mount. But attach a safety line just incase. The bolts might be loose!

 

[fendertubeman]

Thanks. You are correct, my mount was weak before she let loose. I am fairly certain that part of the problem is the fact that I have "bubbling" in between the plastic layer and the foam layer in several areas of the boat, especially the stern. It's a classic 1998 model! So basically the plastic is carrying the entire load which is no good (the screws grab the plastic top sheet, but not the stripped out foam). As part of my repair job, I plan on Devcon'ing the plastic to the foam as best I can. West System sells a syringe for that purpose. Once again, I do appreciate your input and comments. Thanks.

 

[fendertubeman]

Hi Qoheleth,
I forgot to ask, how many layers of fiberglass cloth did you use and what type (6 oz, 8oz, etc.). Also, what surface prep did you perform before putting the DevCon on the plastic?
Thanks again,
Greg

 

[David Hall22685]

If I remember correctly, as this was a couple of years ago, I cut the motor mount, still attached to the ACP and then used a crowbar and anything else I could to remove the ACP from the mount. I don't think it was that hard as I don't remember a disaster. Then I used a Dremel to clean up the edges of the plastic on the separate piece and the boat. I then dug out the rotted piece of wood which had delaminated badly and cleaned out the foam area to receive the new block of wood. I then found a piece of wood that kind of fit into the hole, used plenty of devcon around the foam and then seated the wood into the hole. After things had set up, I then used devcon over the wood, filling in the spaces and then placed the old piece of ACP back in place, using more devcon to fill in the spaces. Then I went to work with the sander. I tried to remove enough ACP over and around the area so it wouldn't create a bump. This took a bit of time, stopping to check the thickness until finally it would take a sheet of glass.

As for the fiberglass, I tried to find what worked for others. They kept talking about weight, as you did but I couldn't find anything around my area that said anything about weight. Wal-mart, Lowes even the automotive stores all carried the same thing: Bondo Fiberglass Cloth. I have no idea the weight or any other specifications but as it was all I could find, I gave up the search and used it.

I started by cutting out a piece that was larger than the area I was going to cover. Then took devcon and covered one side as best I could and then laid it over the area and pressed it out using an old trowel. I then used more devcon over the surface, using the trowel to smooth the surface as best as I could. That was all the easy part!! The hard part came to trying to sand it down to look new. I couldn't do it but it looks pretty good. From a distance of just a few feet you can't tell. When I was satisfied I had done the best I could, I used white plastic spray paint from Walmart and then used Marine 5200 to reapply the mount and the screws. It may not look perfect, but it is rock solid after two seasons of giving it everything I could.

Blessings and good luck. Any more questions or pictures, just ask away! Glad to help!!

 

[fendertubeman]

Hi Qoheleth,
Thanks for your long and informative response. I was planning on performing a very similar type of repair. My plan is to apply several layers of DevCon and glass cloth over the repair area for added strength. Sounds like your repair is now stronger than the original boat. Two years with no problems is very encouraging news! I know I will probably not be able to get the boat to look like brand new again but that is OK. I bought her to sail not just look at. I believe it will look decent, but still obviously look like a repair to the trained eye. No big deal. Anyway, I found a web site that sells the 25ML tubes of Devcon Plastic Welder for $2.69. That’s not too bad. Granted I will need about 10 or 20 tubes for my project, but that’s still pretty affordable to get her back on the water. Thanks again for your time and recommendations.

 

[txjim]

If you are going to use fiberglass, I would recommend you use epoxy as it has the proper viscosity for this repair.