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How much distance from forestay to asymmetrical tack?

Discussion in 'Sail Trim with Don Guillette' started by danstanford, Nov 27, 2017. Add this thread to a FAQ

  1. danstanford

    danstanford

    Joined Aug 2, 2010
    225 posts, 34 likes
    Beneteau 323
    CA Cobourg
    Currently my boat does not have any rigging for a Code 0 sail and I am trying to get ready for eventually adding one. There is a sheave coming out right above the forestay tang at the 15/16 point on the mast for the spin halyard so I can rig that up while I have the mast down.
    The boat is covered so I cannot say for sure but I think there is a hole in the anchor roller about 10" in front of the forestay. Certainly there is not a bobstay for reinforcement, but is this enough room considering how close the head will be?
    Obviously a Sprit would be best, but just trying to figure out what the minimum would be.
    Dan
     


  2. Jackdaw

    Jackdaw

    Joined Nov 8, 2010
    8,768 posts, 2,100 likes
    Beneteau First 36.7 & 260
    US Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
    More than likely your bow pulpit will get in the way.

    At the very least, you need to be able to draw a clear straight line from the tack point to the sheave. On most boats you cannot tack to the bow or anchor roller and do this because the pulpit will get in the way. Modern boats have split and retracted pulpits to help with this without needing a sprit. You'll probably need a sprit if you want to do it right. And measure that distance I described above by pulling the halyard taut to the tack point.
     


    Last edited: Nov 27, 2017
  3. Meriachee

    Meriachee

    Joined Aug 1, 2011
    2,523 posts, 669 likes
    Catalina 270
    CA Wabamun - on the orange ball
    and further to this point, a straight line implies that nothing like a furler drum is even close to being in the way cuz that's a point that things can get really hung up on.
     


  4. JRacer

    JRacer

    Joined Aug 9, 2011
    701 posts, 171 likes
    Beneteau 310
    US Cheney KS (Wichita)
    Currently, I tack mine off the anchor roller via a turning block - see the pic. Tack line runs along the toe rail and secures at the back of the boat - identical arrangement as the roller furler line on the other side of the boat. Not the best arrangement and the bow setup will be replaced by a Selden Sprit over the winter that will have their 90 degree fitting with the pole ring bolted to the flat side of the anchor roller - see the pic. I plan to beef up the anchor roller to handle the loads - working on that plan now.
    Asym Tackline Bow Setup IMG_20170704_094849540_HDR.jpg Jibing is a PITA without the sprit but it can be done. You just have to make sure you don't try to pull it through until it has a chance to fully release and fly out in front of the boat or you will be fighting against the bow pulpit and forestay. Would be a slow maneuver if racing. When racing, we fly the symmetrical.
     


  5. danstanford

    danstanford

    Joined Aug 2, 2010
    225 posts, 34 likes
    Beneteau 323
    CA Cobourg
    Thanks so much Guys, lots to work on here. I will be looking for a sprit that can let me still open the anchor locker....and my wife would tell you I hate shopping! Needs to be retractable or removable in any case since my anchor is sticking into the dock by a more than a foot as it is.
     


  6. THECUSCUS

    THECUSCUS

    Joined Sep 25, 2008
    814 posts, 42 likes
    Macgregor & Island Packet VENTURE 25 & IP-38
    US NORTH EAST, MD


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  7. JRacer

    JRacer

    Joined Aug 9, 2011
    701 posts, 171 likes
    Beneteau 310
    US Cheney KS (Wichita)
    Yes, the aft end of mine will be mounted to the deck behind the anchor locker. So, when the pole is in place, the anchor locker will not be able to be opened but as said above, the pole can/will be removed and stowed when not in use.
     


  8. Jackdaw

    Jackdaw

    Joined Nov 8, 2010
    8,768 posts, 2,100 likes
    Beneteau First 36.7 & 260
    US Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
    Agree with everything you wrote, including the PITA part! But note he said Code 0. This is somewhat workable for an asym but but no way for a code sail.
     


  9. JRacer

    JRacer

    Joined Aug 9, 2011
    701 posts, 171 likes
    Beneteau 310
    US Cheney KS (Wichita)
    Ah, read Code 0, processed as Asym. And, yes, I'll give you, "somewhat workable". As, in will work if necessary.
     


  10. gettinthere

    gettinthere

    Joined Nov 26, 2008
    1,797 posts, 129 likes
    Endeavour 42
    US Cruisin
    My rigger added an aluminum plate to the mast top with a U bolt on the end of it. A block hangs on the U bolt and this all pushes the top of my Code 0 out about 10" away from the top of the mast for better clearance from the furled genoa on the masthead forestay.
     


  11. danstanford

    danstanford

    Joined Aug 2, 2010
    225 posts, 34 likes
    Beneteau 323
    CA Cobourg
    I checked with US Spars about this and they said I should use the sheave immediately above the forestay tang or if I felt I needed to feed from the masthead I should use a diverter (kind of a turning block) no more than 16" above the forestay tang to prevent excessive loads too high on the mast. Given the 15/16ths nature of my rig, I took this with a grain of salt, but in the end I am listening to him.
    Dan
     


  12. Jackdaw

    Jackdaw

    Joined Nov 8, 2010
    8,768 posts, 2,100 likes
    Beneteau First 36.7 & 260
    US Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
    Getinthere has a masthead rig. Had to do something like that.
     


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  13. Ron20324

    Ron20324

    Joined Jan 22, 2008
    6,100 posts, 538 likes
    Beneteau 323
    US Annapolis MD
    323 Mast 4.jpg 323 forestay attachment.jpg
    Dan, I have the OEM spinnaker gear on my B323, and it comes out of the exit block right above the forestay. On my B235 I had a masthead block, and the one and only time I had the spin up, it lifted and the halyard snagged on the windex. I moved the halyard block down closer to the forestay. Unfortunately, I do not have a pic of the forestay attachment AND the spin exit block.
     


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  14. Ron20324

    Ron20324

    Joined Jan 22, 2008
    6,100 posts, 538 likes
    Beneteau 323
    US Annapolis MD
    The mast turning block you mention is probably US Spars # 3034. I have two spares if you're in the market. I don't know if Benny has them? Pop rivets were included.
     

    Attached Files:



  15. Jackdaw

    Jackdaw

    Joined Nov 8, 2010
    8,768 posts, 2,100 likes
    Beneteau First 36.7 & 260
    US Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
    I would not trust a sheave attached from the OUTSIDE to hold a headsail halyard, in particular a code sail. Use only in conjunction with a halyard restrainer, or a sheave designed to be mouneted 1/2 inside to spread and support the load.
     


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  16. danstanford

    danstanford

    Joined Aug 2, 2010
    225 posts, 34 likes
    Beneteau 323
    CA Cobourg
    They actually recommended Part # 3340 but it does look like it fastens on from outside. Ron, I have exactly the same pictures from my own boat so it is good to know I have it straight!

    Thanks again Guys for the feedback.
     


  17. JRacer

    JRacer

    Joined Aug 9, 2011
    701 posts, 171 likes
    Beneteau 310
    US Cheney KS (Wichita)
    My 310 has that 3034 sheave as OEM setup for the spin halyard FYI.
     


  18. Ron20324

    Ron20324

    Joined Jan 22, 2008
    6,100 posts, 538 likes
    Beneteau 323
    US Annapolis MD
    Do you have the numbers transposed(post 16) ? My Z401 mast calls for 3034. I have two in their numbered bag right here. Each one WAS $16.72 a few years ago. By the way, my boom is the Z360.

    I don't know who's mast that is in my 2 pics(not mine), Maybe Doug M? Mine does not have that groove down the front, so maybe it is the roller furling one- a Z400E?
     


  19. Jackdaw

    Jackdaw

    Joined Nov 8, 2010
    8,768 posts, 2,100 likes
    Beneteau First 36.7 & 260
    US Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
    Huh. I could see that for main, topping lift and spin pole lift, but I would think for a halyard that is pulling OUT it would be sketchy. Most fractional boats will have what I described, but it its working who's to argue??
     



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